Any one up for trad archery?

[blacktail]

Wow .........
now this forum has been a little slow for a while
Any trad stuff goin on out there or questions about trad shooting??

[Johnny Savage]

I'm trying the recurve for the first time. I'm struggling to say the least. 50# Ben Pearson Cougar, 28" aluminum Easton arrows, 5" feathers w/ left helical. I'm deadly at 5 yards and that's about the extent of it. It's about 8 weeks until showtime. I'm trying to shoot total instinctive, no sighting methods, no aiming the arrow, no gap method, etc.. I'm told if I shoot enough at close range and gradually increase the distance that it will become as natural as throwing a ball. No aiming required. I remain skeptical but determined. I'm looking for 4" grouping at 20 yards. Realistic goal or not????

Any comments/opinions welcome.

[blacktail]

very realistic

when you are shooting try to envision the spot that you want to hit.
Don' t just lookat the target.

It kinda goes like this.
If you look at the target ........you might hit it
if you concentrate on the killzone ....you will likely hit the deer
But if you concentrate on a hair in the middle of the kill zone you will hit the kill zone.

Start at about ten yardsand shoot a dozen arrows
Do not move back any farther untill you can put all twelve arrows in the "kill zone " or if your goal is a 4 inch group then fine.

Move back to fifteen .....and then to twenty>>>and so on.


After everything is all said and done you will eventually be able to hold your arm up for what ever range that your eyes tell you for that sight picture.

sounds kinda complicated but it really isn't ;)

[Johnny Savage]

Thanks for the advice. A friend of mine is shooting less than 4" groups (most of the time) at 30 yards. He has given me the same advice on picking a "tiny" spot. I get frustrated with it. I'll group three consecutive arrows really well and the next two may miss the 3D target altogether. Of course as fatigue sets in, it gets worse but that's to be expected with any bow. If I can get the hang of it, I will invest in a better bow for next year. However, I'm going to learn the basics before dropping mega $$ and getting frustrated with it.

Any advice on the finger placement? I'm currently shooting index finger on top with middle and ring finger below. Also, I'm allowing the end of my middle finger to touch the corner of my mouth before releasing (using a calf hair finger tab).

[blacktail]

You could try a three finger under release(3 fingers under the arrow)and anchor with your index finger at the corner of your mouth.
This is what I use and I get a much cleaner arrow release.I also anchor on my eye tooth near the front of my mouth and get a consistent anchor point every time.
You will find as you tire your form will go all to heck and you will either overdraw or under draw.
When you come to full draw and hold try to envision squeezing a tennis ball between your shoulder blades and hold the bow at full draw with your back muscles and not the shoulder muscles.

To practice form get about ten feet in front of a target and close your eyes.Come to full draw and concentrate on good form and release the arrow.
When you can accomplish good form open the eyes up and step back and start shooting
What this does is eliminates one step that now becomes second nature when you shoot and you have one less thing to concentrate on when trying to learn the process of instinctive shooting.

[Johnny Savage]

I stated earlier that this was my first time to try the recurve. Actually I "tried" it last year but gave up much too early. This is my first "serious" effort with it.

I have 8 empty Saturdays before season opens here (September 6). I need to get it together as soon as possible. The compound is ready and waiting, but my heart is with the traditional.

Thanks again for the advice. The "tennis ball" theory is new to me. I'll give it a try as well as the practicing with eyes closed.

[blacktail]

Good shooting form is everything in tradional archery.
Holding the tennis ball would be the same correct form for shooting the wheel bow as well.
My sugestion is to practice alot longer than the next six weeks before you try it on real animals.
If you have to use the wheels again this year ........so be it
You can practice...practice...practice until you are deadly and slay them next year!! :p :p :D

[Johnny Savage]

Yesterday morning I switched bows to some off brand recurve. It has a slightly deeper shelf and is rated at 40 lbs @ 28". I've noticed a drastic improvement in the last two mornings. I'm trying to shoot 100 arrows (45 minutes +/-) each morning possible. 10 yards was a little bit of a stretch so I reduced it to about 7 yards. I'm shooting at a dot in the middle of a 3" circle. The extra 10 pounds on the previous recurve was having a greater effect on my accuracy than I would have thought. I suspect it will be better for me to build the strength needed on the lower weight bow before moving up in weight. If you see any error in any of my philosophy please don't hesitate to set me straight.

[blacktail]

if it works .........do it!!:D

[DON WALKUP]

i switch between bent bows and "wheels" ... there's a world of difference between the two from my prospective ...

i have the latest in hoyt technology and the latest in custom recurves and longbows ...

i find the "wheels" require less concentration to be successful in a shot than does the bent bow ... i use sights, release, bells, whistles, etc on the "wheels" ... just the bow and an arrow with the recurves/longbows ...

i find the bent bow to be more close range than the "wheels" ...

i find the bent bow to be more "satisfying" than the "wheels", overall but yet i like them both and shoot them both ...

[GoodOlBoy]

Even my bow with the training wheels has a shelf like my old recurve and I shoot directly off the shelf now (An old Bear bow)

I agree on the methods by the way. The other thing to consider is if you are pulling dramatically to one side or the other try wearing a glove or finger tab. It will help with a much cleaner release, particularly if you have wet hands.

GoodOlBoy

[Johnny Savage]

I'm still working on it. I'm confident at 10 yards now from any angle. I'm not going to the woods with it until I reach the same level at 20 + yards..............still headed toward the goal of 30 yards, however.

[blacktail]

way to go Johnny
Keep it up:p :D ;)

[Seymour]

It's always good to see someone new getting the hang of things.

I hope he continues. Usually 150 to 200 hours will get someone to the skill level that they're confident enough to go afield although no matter how long one practices, there's always something new to learn.

I recently discovered that my Asiatic bow wasn't tillered the same as the other bows I've used for example. I had been shooting it with rather erratic results both off a rest and off my hand near the top of the handle.

When I tried shooting it with the arrow resting about dead center of the handle, things improved dramatically. Arrows flew straight and true to the mark instead of porpoising or fishtailing to hits that seemed to span the full area of the butt. Now the arrows group on the mark like they're supposed to.

I once used a 60 inch duoflex flatbow that did something very similar. The top limb when braced still had a slight reflex in it which in retrospect suggests to me it might have been mistillered. It frequently scattered arrows like the Asiatic bow did before I discovered where to rest the arrow.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the bow and even if I did, it would be hard to test the hypothesis because the handle had a rather deep and fat oval section which would make shooting off the center a little problematic.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced anything like this?

[Johnny Savage]

Thanks fella's for the encouragement.

I have a question for anyone interested in commenting. When you mentioned the tiller in your bow I started thinking about mine. The bottom half is noticably different than that of the top. (Tiller is much closer below the handle) Currently I am knocked such that the center of my arrow is 3/16" higher (on the string) than the center of the arrow where it rests on the shelf. Is it possible that knocking my string higher can improve arrow flight? I just set it at the 3/16" due to setting up a number of compound bows by that spec. I have somewhat erratic flight but I've just assumed the blame for that due to torque, unsmooth release, etc.

Any comments/advice are welcome.

[donnie]

not sure about the tuning question, but i can tell you as a novice recurve shooter
1) practice
2) i use a cardboard deer target over my bails.
3) and shoot at a walk thru type range as often as possible. limit your range of shots as needed, but backyard range shooting doesn't give your sighting picture the work out it needs. you can memorize shot from anywhere on a fixed range quickly.
good luck

[blacktail]

I have always started out around 5/8ths above for the knocking point on my trad bows and adjusted from there.
Shooting off the shelf requires a little more clearance than you would think and if you are shooting from an elevated east you could drop that by about an 8th of an inch.

You may find with a little higher clearance that the arrow will fly noticeably better.
Also when shooting trad equipment try not to fall back into the training wheel mental mode............hehe:D
It is like comparing apples and oranges.........:rolleyes: :cool: :D

[travelworn]

Try stump shooting. Get a couple of judo or blunt points (I prefer judo) and take a walk in the woods. Shoot at rotten stumps, a leaf or clod of dirt. Aim small miss small if you miss a stick by an inch or two keep trying when you go back to the range you'll think that target is huge compared to the bich leaf you shot . It is a lot of fun if you can find somebody to go with. just pick out whatever catches yoour eye just watch out for rocks

[DON WALKUP]

how high do u have your bow braced? if u have too high a brace, it can affect the tiller (for example the mfgr calls for 8" and u have 9-10") that may also affect the nockset. you're not shooting vanes off the shelf are you? if you are, you have to have a really high brace heigth.

yes, "erratic flight" can be a result of improper nock set heigth but more times than not, it will 'porpoise' from incorrect nock set heigth. easily corrected by moving it up/down for correct flight.

side-to-side motion can be "plucking" the string on release, arrow-right/arrow-left adjustment or too weak of spine arrow.

get your bows mfgr brace heigth recommendations, set your nock at 3/8" above horizontal and go from there. off the shelf will normally require a higher brace than an elevated arrow rest.

[Johnny Savage]

Don, thanks for the comments. I measured my brace height at 8-3/4" (string to front of bow shelf)

I think I may have bow "issues". I've checked the tiller at 21" (widest point) from each end of my bow (string to back of limb). The top tiller measures 9-1/8". The bottom tiller measures 7-7/8". I'm told that it's not uncommon for the bottom to be less than the top. However, it would seem to me that 2-1/4" is extreme. Any thoughts/comments? :confused:

[blacktail]

The brace height seems a little high
try dropping it down to around 7 1/2" to start and adjust your nock height accordingly