Cops and concealed carry?

[jl1966]

I have a ccw permit here in Va., and have noticed different reactions when advising cops of the presence of a firearm in my vehicle or on my person during a traffic stop. Responses have ranged from "ok, thanks for telling me", to " give it to me" with it being returned to me at the end of the stop, unloaded, with a speeding ticket. I wondered if my being armed had an influence on the outcome of the stop. I really feel that some officers become hostile when informed of the fact. Now, let me say that I can understand the situation changing once the cop is given the information that he is dealing with an armed person, but I wonder how many might have dealt more leniently if I had not been armed. I also understand that they should in many cases already know I may be armed if they ran my plate when they stopped me. Any of the present or former lawmen here care to shed light.

[Adam Helmer]

jl1966,

There are as many different answers as there are individuals who stop you. Most of the old guys are not too concerned because to get a CCW you had to be "clean", so telling them you are carrying is not a big deal. Some of the new guys have a distinct "us versus them" mentality and are hostile to a citizen carrying. Many new cops are still on the ego trip that comes with the gun, badge and whistle. I think it is wise to tell them you are legally carrying under your CCW as they may have gotten that "hit" when they ran your plate. Just stay calm and polite and all should go well. If not, write a letter, later, to the police chief.

Adam

[Leadbutt]

j, yes here in VA. when I stop you I already know you have a CCW, wich for me means unless you were really doing some thing STUPID, I tend to relax a little and talk to you in a normal manner.

SOme of the locals will take the weapon, I think this causes more problems then its worth, we don't and instruct our troops not to,,

Me ,myself and I would not give a weapon to a Police Officer unless he had placed me under arrest, and if wants to argue about it fine call his supervisor, to the scene, and get it explained why it is,when all you have been stopped for is WHAT SPEEDING
but thats just my 2 cents

[Gotcha!]

Did you ever think that Slowing Down might lessen the problems you have? You make it sound like you are being stopped for Speeding on a regular basis.

[buckhunter]

If I'm stopped and packing, I will hand my permit with my drivers license and tell them I have a firearm. Not nasty or agressive but inform them only. Our state police has a lot of Jack Booted Thugs and I have had one run my firearm(looking for trouble). Came back clean not problem. Others have said thanks and sent my on my way without a hitch. A lot of the problems with carrying comes from police and staties that work the city.

[muledeer]

That's exactly what a friend of mine who is a cop said to do. Hand the officer your driver's license and CCW license. Ticket or no ticket he sends you off with "have a nice day".
muledeer

[VinVega]

Here in KY, we don't have to tell the officer if we're packing. Now, law aside, I do believe it's good sense to inform them regardless. If you mention it in a manner that doesn't seem hostile or suspicious, they probably wouldn't think much of it, other than not to shoot you when you're reaching for your license. I currently do not hold a CCW, so I'm required to carry in my glvoe compartment, which I regularly do. Luckily I haven't had to inform a COP yet that I'm carrying, because I am pretty good at following even traffic laws, but when the time comes, most likely I'll be telling him there's a gun in the glove box before I go reaching for all my papers. Couldn't see why it would make them uneasy if you told them first, seems like it'd calm them down a good deal, and assure them you're not up to something stupid.

[fabsroman]

In Maryland, we would be arrested if we had a gun in our glove compartment. I think most officers in the state would probably have a heart attack if you told them you had a CCW license and a gun on you. However, that is just my opinion. I have never been stopped with a gun on me.

[multibeard]

In Michigan if you are carrying you are required to report the fact to the officer if he stops you.

If you do not have a carry permit the pistol has to be locked in the trunk. Can not be in the glove compartment even if it is locked.

I let my old carry permit expire years ago. I called the local State Police post to see what I had to do to transport it with out a permit. He told me I couldn't even take it out of the house. He was full clear to his eyebrows. I mad calls to a few other police deptments and got diofferent answers for each one.

Prior to the recent change in the carry law it was almost imposssible to get a carry permit. They now have to give you a reason, before ya had to kiss the sheriffs butt to get one. I haven't gone thru all the bull to get a new permit.

[jl1966]

Here in Va. it is permissible to carry openly, i.e. on the hip, or in plain view on the seat of the car. You better make sure you dont let your shirt tail slip over it though, and open carry in public really is a bad idea anyway. I have not had any real bad experiences with cops as a result of my informing them of being armed. My usual way of handling it goes: When the cop approaches my vehicle I have my hands on the steering wheel or otherwise in plain sight, when asked for my license and so forth I inform him of the presence of a firearm in my vehicle, before moving my hands from view. At this point, as I said, the cops usual reaction is "ok, thanks for telling me" or something like that. I feel that it is a good idea to inform the officer, so nothing unexpected happens later. I just have on occasion got the vibe that it kinda put the cops nose out of joint that he was not the only one with a gun in the equation. Now understand, I have no problem with police, I dont envy them their jobs. I have two family members who are cops. It does frost me somewhat though when I encounter one who seems to be on a power trip, and kind of gets snippy at the fact that I am exercising my right to be armed.

[HuntinDoc]

Here in Texas you must inform the LEO that you are carrying. You are also required to surrender your weapon if asked. Failure to do so on request is a crime.

I have only been stopped once for speeding in the last 5 years (for 6mph over) since obtaining my CCW. That officer asked where the weapon was and I told him it was in the console of the truck. He said "Ok, leave it there." that was the end of it. He asked me to step out of the vehicle but left my friend in the vehicle in the front passenger seat. At the end I just received a warning anyway.

I read someone's report that they had been asked by a State trooper where their weapon was and they answered "in the console". The Trooper then told them not to go into the console. He then asked for the proof of insurance and the driver said it was in the console. The Troopers answer...."I believe you."

HA. I keep forgetting to put my insurance form in the console.

[Classicvette63]

I always have a loaded firearm in the glove box along with my wallet and ccw. When, not if, I'm stopped:D I have both hands on the wheel and inform the officer all my id is in the glovebox with a loaded handgun. Reactions have ranged from "reach over and grab your wallet" to the officer going over to the other side and opening the glovebox themselves. Once I had a youngn' looking straight from the hitler youth ask why I had "so many" guns.(My primary and secondary, which I forgot to hide) I said, "they're like potato chips, can't have just one." Got a confused look in return and he left.

Never was really concerned about the officer "taking" my firearm. I always have a second one, (tinfoil hat on) just in case.Classic

[jl1966]

I have never really had any concern for the cop confiscating my gun either. After all, I am legally carrying. I think if it did ever come up, there would be one whale of a stink made.

[8X56MS]

I have had only one stop in years. The cop noticed my CCW card when I presented my DL. His hand went to his Glock, and trembling, he demanded my 'firearm'. Upon taking possession of my CZ, he proceeded to demonstrate the worst gun handling I have ever seen. I had to tell this Bozo to NOT point it in my direction.
Best advice ever: just stay the heck away from cops, period. If your momma told you that policemen were your friends, she lied to ya.

[HuntinDoc]

I knew another student in college who was carrying a ppk in his car. (before the CCW law passed) He was stopped for speeding on a street near the campus (fortunately not on campus) by a campus cop. (Yes, they had juristiction by law a certain distance from campus.) The police officer searched his vehicle and found the weapon and when this student told the police officer that the weapon was unloaded the police officer dropped the clip which was empty then pulled the trigger and dropped the hammer on a live round in the chamber. Fortunately no one was injured. But if memory serves, that student spent the night in jail for having the weapon. I think the officer should have been his cell partner just for stupidity.

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Leadbutt
j
Me ,myself and I would not give a weapon to a Police Officer unless he had placed me under arrest, and if wants to argue about it fine call his supervisor, to the scene, and get it explained why it is,when all you have been stopped for is WHAT SPEEDING
but thats just my 2 cents

Dittos :cool:

[fabsroman]

I can't say that I have never forgotten that a round is in the chamber, but that is the reason for pointing the muzzle in a safe direction at all times. Whether the LEO did so out of training or luck, who knows, but at least nothing tragic has happened. Can't say that I have ever pulled the trigger or dropped a hammer without knowing whether or not a live round is in the chamber.

The only instance where I didn't know whether or not a live round was in the chamber was this past summer/fall while I was dove hunting. I went with my dad and a friend and all three guns were mine. I put my gun up against a telephone pole to take down the other two guns and then started taking my gun apart. When I slid the barrel off of the receiver a shell came with it. I felt like an idiot at that point and it has just increased my awareness of gun safety.

Accidents happen, but that is why we have to follow all the safety precautions so that it takes a bunch of mistakes to have a fatal accident.

[papi]

know the law before criticizing it.it makes no difference if the gun is unloaded. it is still a weapon in the eyes of the law.it makes no difference if it is in the trunk.here in texas the officer automatically knows you have a ccw when he runs your plates.too many old wise tales will get people in trouble

[Nulle]

I think Adam put it best so far but I must say that the gun would NOT stay on your person in SD until checks were made .
This is not to be a big deal if you think about it : I can take that gun for no other reason then Officer Saftey . The Officer don't know you from Adam so please don't get Rambo and get upset.
I SD they give about everybody a concealed permit so care must be taken.
The serial number of the gun will be run to see if it was stolen and if you are a gun owner you should thank them for doing this as I have had a gun stolen and not recoverd . Like I said its not like you are not going to get it back in a few minutes so take it easy.

[papi]

sorry but you made no sense.what do you mean about rambo?you were jumping everywhere and it was hard to understand.not everyone in texas can even own a gun much less carry one.you have to go thru a ccw course and pass a background investigation.coming out of a vehicle and attempting to hand a gun to a officer will get you shot.you can tell the officer you have a gun in the car would make much more sense. it is not necessary in texas.it is tied into the plates system. when they run your tags it will also show that you have a ccw.

[Nulle]

Try to make this so you can understand: South Dakota is Not like Texas.
You will Not be allowed to have a gun on your person while the stop is being processed.
After telling the Officer you have a gun on you he will instruct you on how he wants this weapon turned over to him.
Rambo: Pretty plain as to not throw a fit about handing over that gun. You will get it back in a few minutes, everybody will be safe and you will be on your way. If you want to go the other way you will be at that stop allot longer and worse thing being an Obstructing charge and you may not leave at all until after court.
I have no idea how other States handle these but thats the way it is in South Dakota.

[papi]

you are not allowed to have one on your person here either.it would be extremely stupid to have one on you person during a stop in any state.that could very easily get you shot.the police here automatically know you hav e a weapon when they run your plates.it would make common sense to ask the person to leave the gun in the car when you ask them to step out.i can not believe any police anywhere would ask the person to hand them the gun.procedures never allow the person to even touch a gun

[Larry in Bend]

I'm a CCW holder - I got stopped recently for having the factory fog lamps on my Chev truck lit up on a foggy nite in Central Or. Here we don't have to alert the cops to the presence of a firearm but this State Cop was so aggressive and ego-driven that I felt it was the best thing to do. I gave him my permit with my driver's license. He stepped back and asked if I was "currently carrying a weapon." "In the console" says I. The guy continued to be a jerk but no ticket was issued and no further mention of my handgun was made.

[Adam Helmer]

Larry,

If I am stopped, I am polite and compliant. Many cops and new federal agents are sure they are "OK" carrying a gun, but they have a "Them versus Us" attitude about civillian CCW carry. I am a retired fed and have my credentials on hand in case of need. I suggest politeness and compliance. If you want to make an issue of handing over your CCW gun, take it up with the chief later or have your attorney send a letter to the chief.

If you read the newspapers, or arrest a few cops, you will understand that only "Some" criminals are wearing a police uniform. Comply and be civil, the time to take matters to another level is NOT during a night traffic stop. Be cool and compliant.

Adam

[papi]

them versus us attitude makes a great deal of sense. a civilian has almost no training where as a officer has years of training.as a so called fed you should know better.there is never a time when you would hand over your gun. it is to be left in the car.why would you even talk to the chief? he has nothing to do with it involving a citizen or a retired officer.
if you are really a fed you have no clue what is going on. common sense tells you to be polite.the problem is that there is not a great deal of common snese out there.NEVER,and i mean NEVER attempt to hand a gun to a officer.tell the officer where the gun is and let the officer get it.i seriously doubt you were a fed with those answers. if you are then fed standards have gone out the window.

[LoneWolf]

Wow, Papi, you sure got riled up in a hurry.:D

Trust me, Adam is a retired Fed, and also a complete gentleman. The bad thing about this internet is that things get misread in a hurry, what with no vocal tones invloved.
I'm sure you didn't mean to sound like you were jumping down his throat in your post, but before anyone gets too carried away.. I thought I'd post on how it sounded.
Every state can be a little different in their rules, and EVERY person acts to asituation differently. My advise is to do what you are comfortable with, try to stay within the law, and be prepared for consequences either way.

[papi]

he stated things in a way the it is not done in any phase of law enforcement.he said to do things that makes little sense.like going to the chief.the chief has nothing to do with it. and the us against them.would you feel equal to some with just a couple of hours of training and the officer has years? that is just plain common sense.if he is indeed a retired fed he posesses very little knowledge of ccw laws and leo procedures.this is just very suspect to make those statements.it is demeaning to state that officers are criminals carrying a weapon.with these statements he must have been real popular

[Adam Helmer]

papi,

You sure have a "wild hair" giving you trouble. LOL. Thanks LoneWolf for the support.

Papi, I said, "be cool and compliant." What is the problem there? In several communities I know of, citizens took their complaints of over-zealous officers to the chief and in some cases the officer was removed; in others the officer was disciplined. If you do not think cops can be criminals, then read the Knapp Commission report where 80+ cops were arrested for various crimes. The movie, "Serpico" starring Dustin Hoffman is based on that investigation. Maybe you need to go to Blockbuster Video and rent the movie. A recent TV documentary entitled "When the badge goes bad," or some such title, documented police corruption in New Orleans, NYC and other cities of all sizes.

You may be compelled to hand over your gun in whatever state the officer demands same. Each officer is an individual and it depends on what the officers asks at the time of the stop. Never is not an option in ALL cases; you will do what you are told!

Finally, why do you automatically assume cops are better trained than most civilians? Some citizens have years of training while some cops have had only months on the job. How long have you been an LEO? When do you qualify, once or twice a year? As information, I was the instructor for 100+ federal agents for 10 years, and have attended FBI, Customs, State Police and Treasury Firearms schools; need I say more?

I am not saying all cops are criminals; no more than all priests are child molesters. In law enforcement you have a cross section of society, both good and bad. If you are a LEO, go chat with the Public Corruption squad of your local FBI unit. During a traffic stop, be compliant and polite. 10-4?

Have a Happy New Year.

Adam

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by papi
them versus us attitude makes a great deal of sense. a civilian has almost no training where as a officer has years of training.as a so called fed you should know better.there is never a time when you would hand over your gun. it is to be left in the car.why would you even talk to the chief? he has nothing to do with it involving a citizen or a retired officer.
if you are really a fed you have no clue what is going on. common sense tells you to be polite.the problem is that there is not a great deal of common snese out there.NEVER,and i mean NEVER attempt to hand a gun to a officer.tell the officer where the gun is and let the officer get it.i seriously doubt you were a fed with those answers. if you are then fed standards have gone out the window.

Law enforcement careers entail many occupational hazzards. There are the obvious ones such as being shot, stabbed or maimed in a motor vehicle accident. Somewhat less well known to the general public are issues such as alcoholism, divorce, heart disease and other maladies that can be caused or aggravated by continued stress.

However, the most insidious and least recognized law enforcement occupational hazzard is the danger of retiring as a cynical, ill-tempered, paranoid, bitter individual who is hyper-quick to criticize and find fault, and has little good to say about anyone. Truly sad.:(

[papi]

have you ever heard of the movie,"the graduate".dustin hoffman was in the graduate and al pacino was in serpico.i do have that tape as well as the one titled"prince of the city".there is no problem with being cool and compliant. show me where i ever said that.common sense shows you that officers have been removed ,transferred,and suspended for breaking the rules.what in the world does that have to do with ccw.
what planet are you living on.a officer never asks you to hand over your gun.he will ask where the gun is and then get it himself.show me where in any branch of leo training that a officer has the civilian with a ccw hand him a weapon.you asre blatantly wrong.that will get a officer killed and a civilian killed very quickly.you never let a civilian handle a weapon in your presence.geesh fella. what planet do you live on.
i was a leo from 1976-2001.i am a 5th generation retired officer.my dad had 40 years on the job.i have a uncle who retired from government work.my firearms instructor was a fbi agennt by the name of bob butler.when you talk about ccw they are not well trained.you sound like a administrator and not a street level officer. look in the dictionary under common sense.show me where in any phase of leo training that it allows a civilian to handle a weapon in the officers presence.i guess if dustin hoffman was in serpico now it makes sense.

[papi]

i am very happy and love retirement.i now get to spend time with family and friends .i spend a great deal of time with my grandkids.sir,i am very happy and can care less what you think.some people just do not like to hear the truth

[Nulle]

This old post is "hot" again I see and I am going to stay out of it other then "my" way of dealing with the gun on a person is to ask where it is located and then I will retreive it if need be.
All stops are different but I personaly am not going to let the person mess with his gun at any point.

[papi]

exactly nulle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Adam Helmer]

papi,

I am glad you are retired as I am. Today I received a pension check from a grateful government. I spent 26 years "On the Street" and never worked behind a desk.

You dodged all my prior questions. If you are truly a 5th generation police officer, are you telling me, and the world, you never had a "shaky" cop in your department? Just what department did you work in? "Breaking the rules" and going to the Chief is just good, common sense. You said several times that, "going to the Chief" was not proper. Just what planet are you living on, fellow? Forget the "Graduate" and watch "Serpico" and maybe you will understand the cases I worked on the street. Be well.

Nulle: My point exactly, those stopped "DO AS THEY ARE TOLD?" Are you listening papi? Can I hear a 10-4?

Happy New Year

Adam

[papi]

i did answer your question. i worked for the dallas county sheriffs dept in dallas,texas.i have never said a single time that going to the chief was not proper. i said going to the chief had nothing to do with ccw. get your facts straight.i watched serpico. maybe you were watching the graduate since you said dustin hoffman was starring in it.
you never answered my question asked several times. show me where in any leo job that it allows a cicilian to handle a firearm in the officers presence?

[BILLY D.]

i think adams way of doing things is correct. i have only been stopped once for a license plate light violation, of all things. obviously the officer was looking for drunks. which i wasn't.

when the officer approached my vehicle she, yes a female, asked for my drivers license, registration etc. and i included my carry permit. she asked where the weapon was, i said it ain't a weapon yet, it was a firearm, she kind of grinned and i told her it was on my left hip, i carry crossdraw, much faster for me, and she proceeded to write out a warning ticket for the burned out plate light. and that was that.

of course i understand some officers might give someone a bit of grief in a situation such as that. as adam says go to their supervisor. there is just no practical reason to argue with a law officer at the scene. it's a lose, lose. the officer, male or female may be having pms that day. most are only human.

do what you are told to do and keep your big mouth shut. if you don't like the way the situation was handled, see the boss man. remember that person you are dealing with was hired to uphold the law be they male or female, 90% try to do it right. and yes some do get power drunk. but thats life. check out some of the buttheads that work for tsa. now there is a real crew.

anyway, if you are having diarrhea of the the gums and want to see a bad situation turn really bad keep running off at the mouth.

and thats that.

[papi]

you got out with the gun on your hip?that was a extremely dumb move.you never get out with it.what would have happened if a back up officer saw the gun before the lady officer knew anything about it.you could have been killed, very dumb move.
arguing with the officer will hurt you when you go to court. we were trained to write what was being said on the back of our citations.many now have cameras and can also pick up the sound.hand over the ccw license and tell the officer the gun is at a certain place in the car.you show good sense in knowing when to be quiet. use that good sense and do not get out with the gun on your hip

[BILLY D.]

i was not told to exit the vehicle, therefore i stayed in my seat like a good little boy with hands in plain sight.

when i exersise concealed carry i carry on my person. i want my piece with me not in the glove box or console. thats what concealed carry means.

[papi]

you should never get out with a gun or your side.;eave it in the car.ccw laws can not teach you common sense.you have to do that yourself.toomany with ccw's should never have them. they pass a background a go to class for just a few hours.ccw says on are about your person.you again have to use common sense of when to not carry a gun. a gun is a weapon in any circumstance.

[BILLY D.]

don't know about texas law but here in gods country the only places i can not carry a firearm are schools, government buildings, churches and athletic events and bars. i can carry my firearm where ever i want and do.

so what good is texas conceald carry if you can not get out of your car or vehicle and carry a firearm? what do you have other than a $30000 holster?

[Nulle]

Let me tell you that in my years of working the streets and chasing tail lights I have worked with some utter "train wrecks" for cops and when the time came to put a stop to some of their BS I didn't hesitate for a second on going up the chain.

[gregarat]

I re-read Billys reply several times. Where does it say that he got out of his vehical?
Im not going to question who you are. I realy dont care. Ive known Billy for awhile. I think he knows what concealed means.


i was a leo from 1976-2001.i am a 5th generation retired officer.my dad had 40 years on the job.i have a uncle who retired from government work.my firearms instructor was a fbi agennt by the name of bob butler.when you talk about ccw they are not well trained.you sound like a administrator and not a street level officer. Good for you, I wouldnt doubt that you have great gunhandling skills. It doesnt make you the expert on the capability of every LEO.
When I was qualifying for my Florida G-license (armed security), there was several LEOs qualifying with my class. A few LEOs had a hard time even at 7-15y. It was a real eye opener for me. Me being a measly civilian, has had over 22yrs of firearms experience( I shot a 289). I guess a few months of training makes these guys far more qualified to handle a firearm than myself:rolleyes: . Elitist atitudes like "us against them", is why I plan on staying in the private end.


P.S. 8x56ms,
If your momma told you that policemen were your friends, she lied to ya. Are you sure your not Irish?:D

[papi]

here in texas a place can put a sign on the door that no guns are allowed and the ccw does not allow you to carry inside.that sign only pertains to ccw people.
where did i mention anything about being an expert?did you just make that up?ccw does not qualify here with guards.it is more than just shooting.you go thru classroom work and then shoot.i would not shoot with a guard.how long was your background investigation.here it can take up to a year.just because you can shoot good does not make you quailfied to carry.that sounds just like a guard attitude.i find it extremely suspicious that you had rather make a great deal of money less.i would be willing to bet that something in your background keeps you from being qualified.stay private if that is all you are qualified to be.
we shoot not just at targets but cituational shooting.shoot dont shoot.we simulate things and shoot under those situations. don't give me the crap that guards do that.if a officer here does not qualify he can not carry his or her weapon.shooting at distances helps you get used to shooting at those distances.most gun battles with a officer takes place at about 3 yards.the state here will not allow you to carry your weapon unless you can quailfy with it. in some cases the depts will make the officer go back thru schooling.if he then does not qualify he is terminatedmy dept was very slow to go to semi's.not sure why.they now issue glocks.women have a hard time with them stove piping.it is due to having a limp wrist.women also have a great deal of problems loading the magazines.the spring is too rigid.
here you shoot to a score of 100.you have to shoot at least 70 to quaify. that is not very goodwe had several that were sent home and could not carry,they were women and older men such as a bailiff.
while both leo and guards try to uphold the law,there is no way in hell you can compare the two.if you tell the truth then something is keeping you from quaifying to be a leo.
ccw carrying allows you to carry,common sense can not be taught in a classroom.jujst because you are allowed to do things does not mean it should be done.here we have had very few probs with ccw people. we have a few in prison.again i have to stress common sense. the attitude of i can carry anytime and any place i want is a wreck waiting to happen.use common sense.
we were trained by a fbi agent by the name of bob butler.i always wanted to shoot for the dept.i never was good enough.our bestshooter was a little female.she was tuff.to get a dept expert pin you have to shoot at least 90 for 5 years. i shot 90 or above for 25 years.i ahve a office buddy in michigan that used to be a cop in florida.he does not like forums but i will try to get him in here.i will let him talk about florida things.he comes down every year and we go hog hunting

[gregarat]

where did i mention anything about being an expert? Oh, I see now. You are the only one allowed to assume. So, how does it feel when it is turned around on you?

Its not realy worth talking to a person who assumes facts. Pluse, How can I comunicate with a person who cant even write?




stay private if that is all you are qualified to be. I feel the same about your retirement.

[papi]

my typing is very poor.i have lost a great deal of my eyesight to a eye disease.i have never talked about assuming anything.i do not feel anything is turned on me.i put up with idiots for 25 years and survived.you try typing looking thru a magnify glass with one hand.
check your own spelling of the word"plus".you mispelled a very simple word.i now see what you were referring to about communication and writing.must be tuff for you

[jl1966]

Here we have an example of my reason for starting this thread. I was browsing through and surprised at the activity in this old post. Papi is obviously an example of a now retired law officer who has a problem with armed citizens. Some other current and former officers who have posted do not have this bias. It is an interesting collection of viewpoints.

[Adam Helmer]

jl1966,

You posted a good thread. I would like to post an interesting event in 1995 in Boston where I encountered 2 young Boston cops, one white and one black, in downtown about 5:00 p.m. on a July afternoon at the bus stop by South Station. My suit coat was not buttoned and there was a slight breeze, apparently my jacket parted enough for the cop to see my holster. I was waiting for my bus home when the black cop said something to the white cop (both were about 25 years old). Both looked at me and both put their hands on their handguns and unsnapped the thumb breaks on their holsters. but did not draw. The black cop came up to me, on my weak side, and asked, "Are you a law enforcement officer? I see you have a handgun on your right hip." I told him I was a federal agent and told him my credential was in my left inside coat pocket. He took it out, looked at it, and handed it back to me. I then advised them that the question about being a LEO obviously excluded properly CCW licensed citizens. His response was, "Yes, that is correct." I asked him why that was "correct" and he advised that he only considered a fellow LEO to be a "Proper Person" to carry a gun.

Yes, far too many new LEOs on the street have a definite "them versus us" attitude about civillian CCW carry. I suggest you be cool and compliant until the newly hired LEO settles down. Personally, I have never been concerned with guns in honest hands, it was the less than 1% of guns in criminal hands that gave me full employment, and none of them qualified for a CCW.

Adam

[papi]

the 2 officers you referred to did the propper thing.you are trained to ask if you are leo first.i think you want to be politically correct so bad you are making things up.the story sounds contrived at best.as a officer of any kind you would have no reason to even ask about ccw.this is the bad thing that ruins forums.people start making things up

[Adam Helmer]

papi,

I am not "making things up" as you state. As an Inspector and a citizen with a CCW in two states, I merely wanted to find out the officers' perceptual set and I learned it! As an officer and citizen, I HAD every reason to inquire about CCW or any other subject. Why would you say I "had no reason" to ask a cop about a CCW citizen? What would you deem to be "proper questions" asked of a cop? Where does your "correct" view of proper questions begin and end? Why do you say you were trained to ask, "Are you a LEO, FIRST?" Why is a LEO deemed superior to a properly licensed CCW Citizen? You really are a "Them versus Us" guy, aren't you? Who do the cops work FOR??? Cops are servants and not superiors to citizens, do you understand that?

Personally, I do not care if you believe my prior post. I know it happened and IF you have any evidence it is "contrived" kindly state your case. Maybe you need to "chill out." Please give chilling a chance before you post again; maybe guys like you "ruin forums". Be well.

Adam

[papi]

you are always trying to toot your own horn. you always have a politically correct story for everything.maybe you should chill and try the truth for a while.the first thing a officer is trained to do is ask if they are a officer.as the officer being questioned you would have no reason at all to ask about a ccw.yep!! contrived at best

[Adam Helmer]

papi,

As an officer, I could ask the inquiring cop about the weather, the location of the nearest cat house, or the daily number. Why would I need to have "a Reason" for any question I chose to ask? Isn't this still America?

My post is "Contrived" you say. Well, I think you have lost your limited credability long ago on this Forum. Who believes you? I will not respond to you in future; I do not need to drop down to your level. Be well.

Adam

[papi]

the question is why would the subject even come up between officers.you stated you were a officer.i still thinks its contrived because you like to be politically correct.you know i am right so all you have left is to attack me. it matters not because i know bs when i see it

[Rocky Raab]

I'm jumping in here.

I've followed this thread, but have not posted in order to stay objective and uninvolved.

The thread has degenerated into name-calling. We do not permit that here at HuntChat.

I'm closing the thread and posting a warning to all of you - if I find any poster continuing or returning to beligerance, that person will be asked to leave the board.