Smokeless powder

[MAGNUM FORCE]

I`m new to muzzleloading, and have been looking at the savage. What is the advantage with smokeless powder over pyrodex? Can other inlines shoot smokeless?

[mazter]

The 777 powder will clean up alot faster than BP & Pyrodex. Alot of Muzzle Loader's will shoot them smokeless powders, But make sure you check to make sure before you load up.

I know it sure cuts down on cleaning time, and I only use 100gr of it in all mine. I like Knight muzzleloader's and they all shoot it rather well.

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by mazter
The 777 powder will clean up alot faster than BP & Pyrodex. Alot of Muzzle Loader's will shoot them smokeless powders, But make sure you check to make sure before you load up.

I know it sure cuts down on cleaning time, and I only use 100gr of it in all mine. I like Knight muzzleloader's and they all shoot it rather well.

Mazter I think this guy is talking about real "Smokeless Powder"

not 777 there is a Savage MuzzleLoader that allows you to use the Same powder you put in a cartridge when you reload.

The only disadvantage to the Savage that uses Smokeless that I can think of is it falls under the same regulations that a modern rifle falls under as far as FFL regulations. It is not like a true Black Powder gun that can be mail ordered and purchased without a BG check

The biggest advantage is that it can be loaded to velocities beyond that of a traditional or inline BlackPowder rifle. You can get better accuracy and longer range that you can with the typical inline

[DaMadman]

this is a nice article on it

http://www.gunblast.com/SavageML10.htm

[mazter]

Sorry , I misunderstood, & took it the wrong way. :eek:

[EncoreBilly]

Better look at the warning,about these guns at hpmuzzleloading.com

[swilk]

I own a Savage MZ as well as several Knight MZ's. If I had to choose only one it would hands down be the Savage. With the wonderful Savage Accutrigger and a recommended load of 4227 and 250gr SST's, I can shoot shot after shot into a 1" group at 100 yards without the need to ever clean it. Couple this with the fact that the bullets leave the muzzle at around 2200fps, and the bullet strikes 3" low at 200 yards with a 3" high at 100 yard zero. It is an effortless gun to shoot and shot well.

[swilk]

Originally posted by EncoreBilly
Better look at the warning,about these guns at hpmuzzleloading.com

Yes. Research this fully and come to your own conclusion. My conclusion is this whole situation is driven by money and a persons willingness to blackmail someone to get money.

[trex]

pr bullet has a article on the savage. www.prbullet.com

[EncoreBilly]

Originally posted by swilk
Yes. Research this fully and come to your own conclusion. My conclusion is this whole situation is driven by money and a persons willingness to blackmail someone to get money.
swilk,
I would rather err on the side of safety than take a chance,but thats just me.
I do a lot of my deer hunting in southern In,pike and dubois county, maybe get together sometime and see if that smokeless can out shoot my Encore.
Check your PM's:

[HPBTMTCH]

The savage is the best muzzleloader i have ever shot. The smokless loads have less recoil than pyrodex and are faster, and at least as accurate. I have around 800 rounds on mine, i mic`ed a new breach plug, there was very little difference in either. Still after reading the warning, i`ll replace it at 1000 rounds, just to be safe. Okay, now for those of you who are curious, yes smokless powder can be fired in a modern inline, like the knight disk, and the TC encore, If you don`t care to lose life or limb. Again, no one says this is safe, but the starter load is 20 grains of hodgden lil`gun with a 225-230 grain bullet and the max is around 31 grains. You must also use MMP high pressure sabots. I have shot hundreds of rounds with no mishaps, but that does`nt mean anything, be careful, and replace the breech plug every 300 rounds or so.

[skeet]

Originally posted by swilk
Yes. Research this fully and come to your own conclusion. My conclusion is this whole situation is driven by money and a persons willingness to blackmail someone to get money.

Yep...I think you have this one pegged right. The blown gun was probably done as a way to get back at Savage. Easy way to blow up any gun if you know how:rolleyes: :eek:

[eldeguello]

Originally posted by MAGNUM FORCE
I`m new to muzzleloading, and have been looking at the savage. What is the advantage with smokeless powder over pyrodex? Can other inlines shoot smokeless?

This gentleman asked if inlines other than the Savage can be used with smokeless powders. The answer is NO!!! UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES EVER USE ANY SORT OF SMOKELESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER THAT IS NOT SPECIFICALLY MADE TO SHOOT SMOKELESS POWDER, and so certified by the maker!! TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE TODAY, THIS IS ONLY THE SAVAGE.

All the other ML powders, Pyrodex, Black Mag 3., T7, Clean Shot, ClearShot, and American Pioneer are NOT smokeless powders, they are "black powder substitutes", which are supposed to be better than real black powder in some respect or the other, but have their disadvantages as well! Most are safr than BP to store and handle, but some are much more difficult to ignite, and cannot be used in a flintlock unless a priming charge of true black powder is poured in the barrel first, and BP is required in the flashpan as well.

[kel]

do not use smokeless powder!too high a pressure for your barrel.
one shot too many you will be stat,if it helps 777 is cleaner than pyrodex.just soap and water maybe a tooth brush but you will live.no time to be lazy black powder is fun but dirty you must clean your gun and all parts.
as for pellet loads a group of us up here in canada are wondering if the 2nd pre charge affects the barrel(ie two pellets both have primer charge)
any data back would be great.this seems to only affect the barrels of people who use sabolts.the palstic is fouling the in line barrels. good luck

[rattus58]

The Savage and several other makers allow smokeless powders. Other's have toyed with smokeless as well.

Smokeless powders offer three advantages to me. One is that it is cheaper per shot than triple seven or other powders except maybe Pyrodex P, for me. A can of 3031 or 5744 are $28 and Pyrodex for me is $14. I use 70 grains to 90 grains of Pyrodex , and up to 40 grains of 3031. Pretty close on price.

Smokeless is cleaner, but not clean. As mentioned, recoil to energy served is vastly reduced.

Lastly, smokeless powders are easy to get even here in Hawaii, shotgun primers are easier to get than are musket caps which I have to buy by the caselot ... $225 and now that I have modified my rifle to shoot with cartridges, the pistol primers too are way easier to get than are #11's or musket caps... therefore... smokeless has that peripheral advantage also.

Smokeless powders in guns not designed for them, or for guns that one does not have the blessings of the manufacture for, should not be experimented with. Smokeless is in no way related to black powder or its substitutes when it comes to energy per grainweight of powder, and until you have some official guidline (FROM THE MANUFACTURER) you don't know what is a safe load for the gun. This brings up HP Muzzleloading.

Toby Bridges, who also happens to be a friend of mine, had a gun that blew up on him. Toby took the path of criticizing Savage of their design of the breech plug. Savage, and others, have subsequently smeared Toby by publishing personal emails and other "private" documents on the internet. This precludes me from looking at any of the parties as behaving in a responsible manner in this issue.

There is no reason to suspect that the Savage is anything but a fine muzzleloader. Why this particular one blew up, is probably anyones guess, and Toby is the only one who is likely ever to know for sure. Anyone who purchases a Savage in my opinion should follow the recommendations of Savage and enjoy their muzzleloader for a lifetime.

Smokeless powder is a dream to shoot. It is smooth, less recoil, clearner, and nicer to shoot when compared to Black Powder or Pyrodex. Smokeless powder muzzleloaders are just going to become more and more popular as more and more people shoot them, and more and more states accept them. But you DON'T use smokeless powders in your Knight, CVA, Thompson, etc.

Much Aloha ... :cool:

[bill truitt]

Intresting messages on ths site. Search of this question lead me to this site. Look like a great place.
Building benchguns and other rifles leaves me with little time for play projects. Last year we took a day off in the shop and tried to blow up a Knight ML. Customer had a custom Smokeless ML built in the shop and decided to sell me his old rifle for almost nothing.
One of my shop employees is a Black powder nut. He has volumes on rifles and such, Some cal him the black powder man of Maryland. He told me that 19 grains of Red Dot would blow the top off. It did not, Was actually a light load. Started with DBL charge of black. no damage, Measuring the barrel for signs of pressure and nothing moved. After 450 grains of FFF and 2 Maxi Balls we decided to stop. No damage. Only sign of pressure was bolt being blown back to cock position.
NOTE we did not shoot from hands. A Truck tire was used along with cords tieing it down. Nylon cord pulled the trigger from other side of berm. We did video the shots.
Now back to test. Figuring one of the hot loads of a 460 Wea. Mag was 3031 powder. 70 Grains was used and a MaxiBall. No damage. blown the bolt to cock was it. We tried the 70 grains of 3031 and 2 balls. The nipple blown loose Cleaned it up and one more load. Last load was 19 grains of Red Dot, and 70 Gr 3031 with one sabot and bullet. This time the nipple blew out of the rifle and the video did not show where it went. Final result, I cleaned the plug up and could have used the rifle to hunt with. Measuring devices used to check for pressure did not change from start to finish, Building rifles for years I now first hand every barrel does not cut the same, and the rifle handling this may have been a fluke. IM NOT TELLING YOU TO DO THIS!!! you could loose hands or eyes with one shot. My fear was black powder hunting and the worry of over loading inline rifles and having them blow up. I took the test beyond the limits to blow the rifle to bits. It never happened. I donated the rifle to the local hunting class teacher for demo. After building several smokeless ML rifles and testing them I do like the new ability of hunting and not having to clean the rifle so quickly. I clean rifles 7 days per week and still the day off with my son and a hunt is work enough taking a day off from cleaning is a help. Thanks for allowing me to join your forum and have a nice Christmas season.

[Indianahunter]

The Savage is one of several great choices in smokeless powder muzzleloading. The Savage is a great place to start and you can go up from there. I have been around smokeless powder muzzleloading for some time now and am very confident in their safety record and performance.

[Aderaeseja]

Deleted due to inappropriate adult content.