The .270win:The perfect deer cartridge? [Archive]

Andy L

12-08-2004, 08:08 AM

They are in the top ten. Its very debateable among several calibers for deer size game. Alot of em will do the job and the deer will be just as dead. Some excel at some things such as distance, wind, bullet selection, ect... better than others, but may lack to that same caliber in another catagory of deer rifles.

The ..270 is not the perfect cartridge in itself, but its in a group of perfect cartridges, if that makes sense. Personally, I wouldnt own one. I have other rifles I like better on both ends of the 270 range of bullets and performance and have no need for one, but thats my opinion.

It is among the elite 10 that would be considered perfect by many and all will kill deer equally as dead.Thats not debateable, I wouldnt think anyway.....

;)
Andy

Out of curiosity, after I wrote this, I counted just as fast as I could, over 20 cartridges that could be argued to do the job as well and better in some instances than the 270. So, I guess I should expand that number listed above. :D

The deer will be just as dead with any of them. At one time it may have been perfect, had it been brought in before the 30-06. But with todays bullets and powders, there are alot of performers out there.

Dan Morris

12-08-2004, 09:21 AM

270 will live for a long time. I have a couple of them. While I use the 06, daughter fell in love with the 270 first time she shot it.
Dan

Dutchboy

12-08-2004, 10:24 AM

To my taste the 270 is more than needed for almost all deer hunting.

Not that it makes the dear deer too dead, just that it is more than needed.

Tops on my list is the 250 Savage. 260 Remington, 6.5x55, 257Roberts are also all ahead of the 270. JMO, Dutch.

model 70

12-08-2004, 10:49 AM

Some of you may discredit my posts when I tell you I have never taken a deer in my life so I have no first hand experience. I have taken 2 black bears that would be just as dead with any other capable centerfire as they were with the .270win I shot them with. I just think the .270 loaded with any somewhat stout 130gr. bullet is about all you may need?

I guess I am trying to say is the hunter that totes a magnum rifle or long range big boomer is no better off than a hunter that carries a .270 as long as he knows his gun in and out and what he can do with it.

fabsroman

12-08-2004, 11:06 AM

I disagree with that last post. A hunter carrying a .270 Win isn't in the exact same position as a hunter carrying a .300 Win Mag or .300 RUM. Now, if the property you hunt on can only provide shots out to 200 or 300 yards, then this argument might be moot. However, what if Mr. Big walks out at 800 yards and you are capable of making the shot? Would a .270 Win get the job done as well as a .300 Win Mag or .300 RUM? Probably not. I probably wouldn't even try that shot with my .270, but might actually take it with my .300 Win Mag.

With all that said, I have never had Mr. Big come out at 800 yards, but made my two longest shots on deer this season when I killed a doe and a yearling at somewhere around 250 yards. The farm where I was hunting can present 800 yard shots easily, maybe even 1,000 yards, but I have yet to be presented with that type of shot while deer season is in.

Rocky Raab

12-08-2004, 01:03 PM

I know that several folks on this board disagree with what I'm about to say, and that's fine.

But I'll always say that the proper way to deal with Mr Big at 800 yards is to give him a crisp salute and hope you see him again some day at a range where you won't risk crippling him.

No matter what rifle you're carrying.

Brithunter

12-08-2004, 01:17 PM

Hi All,

IF you are capable of putting the bullet in the correct spot at 800 yards, then the 270 Win will kill the beast just as dead as the 300 WM. Yes the 300 produces more power but it does not make the beast more dead....................after all dead is dead. I no longer have a 300 WM...................no I have nothing against the cartridge at all. The rifle was traded in a deal to get some collectable rifles, funnily enough for my collection:rolleyes:

I still have some ammo for it including some Lapua 200 gr loaded with the MEGA bullets. Ideal Elk recipe:p

I have 2 rifles in 270 Win, the BSA CF2 is the first centre fire rifle I brought, the other I picked up a little while ago, calibre was unimportant. I wanted a good BSA Majestic and this one was the best deal so I got a 2nd 270 Win rifle. However I have yet to kill an animal with either of the 270's. Had Deer in the sights............ but it was an unsafe shot, or the wrong species or sex:rolleyes: Oh well one day it will happen. I have shot the CF2 at 600 yards and it was very accurate using a handload with 130 Gr Balistic Tip bullets and Rel 19.

Yes the 270 Win is an excellent game cartridge but as has already been stated it depends on the terrain and area it is used in. Personally I would not want it in close wood/timber, there are better cartridges suited to this work. Most hunting is a compromise. If I had a place like this, like in fact the place I hunted Wgitetails in 2003 where long shots 500+ could be taken in the fields and close dense thickets where 40 yards was a long shot then the 270 loaded with 150 gr bullets would suffice. I actually used a 7x57mm due more to it's scope moutn set up being a QD one against the fixed steel mounts on the 270 win. Sighted in for 200 yards and the longest shot I took was 65 yards:rolleyes:

fabsroman

12-08-2004, 02:42 PM

I stand corrected. I looked at the data in the Barnes reloading manual and a 130 gr. XLC bullet in .270 with a starting muzzle velocity of 3,200 fps will carry about 1,400 lb/ft of energy out to 600 yards and a 150 gr. XLC bullet in .300 with a starting muzzle velocity of 3,300 fps will only carry about 1,350 lb/ft of energy out to 600 yards, so I guess the .270 Win will do a better job out that far because of the BC. Now, up close the energy levels favor the .300, but then it really doesn't matter because they will both kill up close and far away.

Rocky,

I agree that an 800 yard shot shouldn't be taken if the shooter isn't capable of doing it, and right now my equipment isn't even close to being able to do that because I haven't spent enough time with it lately. However, is somebody can make the shot (e.g., Boyd), I don't have any problem with it. What about guys that kill groundhogs at 1,000 yards? Should they not take the shot because they might cripple the animal, or is it because they groundhogs are varmints that such shots are acceptable? There is a better chance of hitting the kill zone on big game than there is on varmints. Then again, there is a greater chance of completely missing a small target at 800 yards.

Classicvette63

12-08-2004, 02:45 PM

What are the parameters of the hunt? Brush hunting or beanfield hunting? Lots of steep climbing or sneaking around? One gun or cartridge won't fit all the situations. What size deer? A 100lb Pa. mountain deer or a 280lb Alberta monster?

The .270 is a fine round, although I do not own myself. I wouldn't feel undergunned or overgunned if i did. Sort of like picking who has the best wife. They all have their pros and cons;)

CanWoodsman

12-08-2004, 04:40 PM

Although I prefer the 25.06 I have to admit the .270 is capable of taking any deer at any range one should be taking shots at. In most incidences 800 yards is far beyond where one should be hunting deer. At this distance too many factors become important. Accurite range estimation is vital, a mere 50 yard mistake can mean the difference between a hit and a miss. Wind drift can easily move your bullet up to 2 feet. At this distance any uphill or downhill shot will effect the height. If you can shoot 1" at a 100 yards from a bench what will your grouping size be in the position you use in the field? In a hunting situation you will not likely get the chance to fire a round to adjust for these factors like you could on the range. Just too many varibles to be shooting at a fine game animal like a deer at 800 yards. JMO

Best Wishes

model 70

12-08-2004, 07:05 PM

If you can put a bullet into the vitals at 800+ yards, the .270 will kill it just as dead as the .300mag as earlier stated.

Why would it matter what the terrain is? Why could you not hunt deer in the brush with the .270 like you can much more open terrain?

That .270 will kill a 100lb. buck just as it would a 250lb. buck.

royinidaho

12-08-2004, 08:41 PM

Model 70,

Ya know my answer. However, having said that, I'm carrying a 338 WIn this year for elk.

Yea we shoot a longer ranges in the west than are usual in the east but, most deer are shot a < 200 yds.

Shot a moose with the 270 130 gr sierra. Range was about 65 yds. Mv of the bullet was 3200 FPS. Bullet did what it was supposed to. Complete penetration, severed top of heart.

May as well have shot a house (building) for all the more reaction by the moose. He just walked off. Got him about 5 minutes later.

Make the same shot with a 338/358/375 and you'll see a big difference.

During public/open hunts and close to boundaries like Yellowstone, Indian Reservation or even posted property you want the animal dead now not 200 yds later.

O'Conner fan too but he's long gone and would really enjoy his options if he were around now.

BTW, 25 cal and above up to 30 cal. Any case size from 7X57 mm to 06/308 case. There's yer perfect deer rifle.

Classicvette63

12-08-2004, 11:22 PM

model 70, The terrain would matter depending on what type of rifle you might want to carry, whether it be a short action or standard action. A buddy of mine shot a 250lb buck in New Brunswick a few weeks ago. 2 shots with a 150gr '06. Neither bullet passed through. If I know I am going after 250lb+ deer and I have two rifles on the rack, a .270 and an '06, I'm taking the '06. And as far as brush or open ranges, the .270 has it on the open range. "Brush guns" such as a .35 Remington are usually faster handling, more compact guns. From 150 yds in, it's hard to argue with 200gr of .35 diameter Core-Lokt. Not saying the .270 is "bad", 'cause it's not. No one round or gun can be perfect for all situations. Although the Remmy pump comes close to the perfect gun.:D

Andy L

12-09-2004, 09:07 AM

Fabs,
Im not too sure your wrong. Do you have any data out to 800? The manual I chose to look at painted a different picture. It only has data out to 500, but looking at it, seems the further you go, the more the 300 Win takes over.

Check 130 and 150 gr 270 against 150 and 180gr 300Win and see what you get.....

Andy

model 70

12-09-2004, 09:18 AM

The .270 is hardly the ideal moose gun.

Why could a shorter barreled "mountain" rifle like my featherweight with a low powered scope or even open/peep sights not work in the thick stuff?

I've never been in that situation but a 150gr. partition or a-frame in a .270 seems like it would topple the largest of bucks.

fabsroman

12-09-2004, 11:48 AM

Andy,

I double checked the Barnes manual and the figures still stand. I compared a .270 at 3100 fps with a 130 gr. XLC bullet with a .300 at 3200 fps with a 150 gr. XLC. The .300 is in front of the .270 energy wise until 500 yards. At 500 yards, they are about even. After 500 yards, the .270 has 50 lbs/ft more of energy at 600 yards. The table ends at 600 yards.

The BC for the .270 is .466.

The BC for the .300 is .428.

I guess the BC is what makes the difference.

Jack

12-09-2004, 11:56 AM

I'd wonder if a Barnes X bullet would open at the velocity levels you'd be at at 500+ yards- with either cartridge.

Rocky Raab

12-09-2004, 12:17 PM

Fabs, I watched a foursome of really, really good groundhog shooters just this year. If I recall correctly, the longest kill was almost 700 yards.

But not one came on the first shot. In fact, the group shot at a dozen or so different hogs, launching up to ten shots at an individual animal before they connected once.

They didn't miss by much: a foot or so on the first shot, and less as they "walked" 'em in.

Every one of those "almost" shots would have gutshot, legshot or missed an average deer. That's my point.

It's not the drop. It's the wind. Nobody can see the wind between the shooter and the game. You might have an idea of what the wind is where you are, and you might have a vague hint of what it's like at the animal, but nowehere else (and I'd wager damn few have a real idea of the wind speed even where they are.)

Jack, Barnes X bullets will open at least some at impacts as low as 1300 fps.

Andy L

12-09-2004, 12:56 PM

Rocky,
I know what you mean. I watched a really big buck from a stand this year. He was on the next ridge with a valley between us. He was with 2 does and I had time to lazer him. 460 yards. I had a good rest, knew what my gun would do and was really comfortable with the shot itself. But, it was across a valley and there was a slight crosswind, where I was. I couldnt shoot. What was that wind doing down the valley between us? What was the wind doing on the ridge he was on?

I passed. Hoping he would chase the does out into the valley below and would offer a 200 yard shot. He didnt.

I have replayed that scenario in my head several times over. I think I made the right decision. I think??

Andy

gd357

12-10-2004, 01:03 AM

Andy,

If you weren't sure of the wind, you were absolutely correct in your decision. Better to wait and hope for another day than risk losing a buck like that to a bad shot. That's what we all have faced at one time or another (at least I have) and while you dearly wish that the situation had been different, true sportsmen will make the right decision. Good choice.

gd357

Dom

12-10-2004, 01:29 AM

No doubt, .270 is in the top 5 -- great cartridge. However, there are so many variables and hunting conditions available in the world that there are certain calibers/weapons that do specifically a better job, i.e., the brush hunter armed w/a 12ga pump or a lever 45-70. A lot depends on the terrain and conditions. However, no one should feel handi-capped under any conditions going deer hunting with a .270. It is a proven performer that does the job exceptionally well, JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

skeet

12-10-2004, 02:03 AM

the best answer is YEP!! My longest game animal was shot with my 270 Ruger. Rangefinder right at 460. But I had been shooting rifles all year and knew the drop etc. Oh and it was a very rare day in Montana. No wind. I wouldn't even try that shot today...too far for me now...no practice:( The fellow I was hunting with couldn't believe it. It was a really long shot...even out there> :D

model 70

12-10-2004, 08:01 AM

I've heard the speer point found on must .270 bullets bucks brush better than something like a 45/70.

Andy L

12-10-2004, 08:16 AM

Nothing bucks brush. Try it. Put your taget back in the brush a little ways, like where you would see a deer and shoot at it. See how your bullet bucks brush. Closer your target is to the brush, more accurate it will be, only because it has had less time to tumble out of line....

Nice shot Skeet. Dont you think a 300 Win Mag, 300 Wby Mag, 300 RUM, 30-06, 308, 280, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Wby Mag, 7mm RUM, 6.5x55, 260, 264, 257, 250 Savage, 25-06, 6mm Rem, 243 Win or a whole host of short mags, wildcats in the same calibers or improved cartirdges could have made that deer just as dead at 460 yards??

270 is good, very good, but its no better than a host of other "perfect deer rifles".......

Andy

model 70

12-10-2004, 08:21 AM

I suppose I could have made the same argument for the .280 and 30/06.

All those magnums are too much. Too much powder, too much blast, too much recoil, to much $$$.

It's like calling a hot rodded muscle car the perfect grocery getter.

Most of the short action rounds run out of steam after 500 yards. I wouldn't take a 500+ yard shot anyway.

Andy L

12-10-2004, 08:34 AM

Well, for arguments sake, I shot a 300 Win Mag for years, still do in certain circumstances for whitetails. It is alot of gun, but I dont mind the recoil, the powder, the blast or the $$$ and have plenty of pictures to back up the effectiveness of them. Drops em just as dead as any other gun Ive ever fired, and with a well placed shot, no more damage to the meat, than any other gun.

So, for me, its not as good or better than the 270?

Just trying to make a point. 270 is good, but not the best. None are the best. Best went out the window years ago. With the bullet selection, powders of today and gun technology, the playing field has been equaled ALOT.....

Andy

fabsroman

12-10-2004, 12:54 PM

Andy,

When I saw that there was a new post to this thread, I figured that I would post myself about how I feel about the "Best" deer cartridge.

Quite honestly, I don't think there is any best cartridge because each one does something a little differently and each time a person shoots a deer there is something different about the situation. My first deer was taken at 30 yards with a .30-06 and Core-Lokt bullets. I broke his back and he dropped right there. Was the .30-06 the ideal cartridge for that scenario, probably not. A .30-.30 would have worked just fine and iron sights would have beena lot better than the scope I had. My second deer was almost the same situation, but it was right under my tree and only presented a front shot. At that time, I had just bought my .300 Win Mag and it had, and still has, a 3-12x scope on it. A little better than the 4x scope the .30-06 had on it, but not the best thing for that shot. Well, shooting down on the deer I put the Core Lokt bullet into the middle of the top shoulder. Blood came shooting out of the entry hole and the bullet never made it to the other side because it disintegrated. Granted, the deer dropped like a ton of bricks. There have been many more deer shot with my .300 Win Mag and it is getting to the point now where I am starting to lose count.

Anyway, my point is that a person can only pick one of the perfect cartridges and perfect setups if he/she knows exactly how the deer is going to present itself. Without knowing all the variables, a person can only guess as to what is the perfect cartridge to use. Quite honestly, I think the most important thing is not selecting the perfect cartridge, but using the gun you are most comfortable shooting. I have a .270 Win, .30-06, .220 Swift, and .300 Win Mag. I am most comfortable with the .300 Win Mag followed closely by the .220 Swift.

model 70

12-10-2004, 04:10 PM

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because saying the .300win mag is the best for deer is like saying a 25/06 is ideal for yotes(yes, i know you didn't say the .300 is the for deer). It works and it's quite effective on yotes but there are guns tailored for that purpose.

Mike Moss

12-10-2004, 04:19 PM

The 270 Winchester is an excellent cartridge. Time has proven that. However it's no magnum but it's close to one.

For woods hunting it's just fine and thats not a demanding application for deer. Many cartridges will do there.

At long range there are some more poweful cartridges that would be a little better.

By the way the data posted by fabsroman is twisted to show the weaker cartridge to be somehow "better" at long range. Of course this fools only some.

I did have an opportunity for long range deer hunting this season. To me long range is about 400 yds. I really don't care all that much if I shoot another deer or not but don't want to wound one. I carried a 270 WSM and a 264 WM. Each has a small edge over the 270 Win. I have a couple of 270 Wins and one of them was a back up down the line. I would have gone to one of my 300 magnums or 30-06's first.

Andy L

12-10-2004, 05:08 PM

I agree. The 270 is time tested. Excellent. But, not perfect or the best. But, is in the catagory with alot of other perfect and best. There is a list.

Actually, if you took away my big boomer and wouldnt let me shoot my 25-06 and made me pick a 140gr gun for whitetails only, Id rather have the 280 than the 270. Little higher BC, little more velocity, little more energy and little flatter shooting.....

Andy

Edit: I could be a little tired of hearin of the 270 too, I guess. I hunt with some guys that swear by them. They know nothing of guns or reloading or anything, and it makes a great gun for them. Like, they are apt to have it sighted for 140gr factory ammo (their sighting in consists of leaning over the hood of a truck and shooting at a feedsack on a tree, with the guns rested on a coat) and buy a box of 130s if WalMart is out and not even check the gun. All they know is it likes Winchester ammo. One guy said he had another guy make him some reloads for his 270 this year. I asked what he was using and he said "some of those good ones". :rolleyes: :D The guy that loaded them never saw the gun, let alone measured anything or worked up a load, but since they were handloads and "the good ones", they were the ticket.

He was shocked when he lost a buck he shot. I wasnt. He gut shot him and we never did find him.

We can agree to disagree. Ill stick with my 300 Win and 25-06Imp. (And Ill load my own, thank you, and be sure to use the good ones.) ;)

Andy

Builder45

12-10-2004, 05:52 PM

The perfect deer cartridge:

The 22wmr

Shoot them in the head. No meat damage, no trophy damage and they do not run very far.

Even if it is illegal in most places how many people do we know who have done it and how many times has it worked.

Just my humble opinion based on what everybody else has told me.

model 70

12-10-2004, 07:20 PM

I still say the .270 is at home in ANy deer bunting situation.

Btw-the 30/06 or .280 hold NO advantage over the .270 in any deer hunting situation.

fabsroman

12-10-2004, 08:51 PM

And the .270 doesn't hold anything over the .280 and .30-06 in any deer hunting situation.

Mike Moss,

I didn't twist anything. That is the data that Barnes' reloading manual shows for the bullets, cartridges, and velocities I used. If you were to look at my first post, you would see that I wasn't endorsing the .270 as the perfect deer gun. In fact, if you read all of my posts on this thread, you would know that I was making an argument for my .300 Win Mag, not my .270. Find the lb/ft for the bullets I listed and let me know what you find. Sure, I could find data for a .270 bullet that is much less aerodynamic and post those numbers, but that wouldn't be the truth. I guess I could have looked at a lot more data, plugged it all into a spreadsheet, and then come up with some type of answer. However, I use a 130 gr. bullet in the .270 for deer and a 150 gr. bullet in the .300 Win Mag for deer, so I used the data for those bullets.

model 70

12-10-2004, 08:57 PM

.270 ammo is easier and probably cheaper to find on a deer hunt in the boonies than .280 stuff.

I'm sure the .270 has better trajectories at longer ranges and SLIGHTLY less recoil than the '06.

Andy L

12-10-2004, 10:53 PM

Wouldnt know, dont buy ammo in the boonies. I take it with me.

270 wont do anything the rest of the cartridges wont do to a deer. They are just as dead. And it doesnt have better trajectory than a 280 or 300 Win Mag or my 25-06IMP with the loads I use. Not as good of trajectory. Its a good/average deer rifle. Just like the rest mentioned. No worse, no better.

It may have a slight advantage over a 30-06 in trajectory, but that would be it. In capable hands, you cant do anything with your 270 a man cant do with an 06 or any of the other rounds. And, if your buyin ammo in the boonies, I would be willing to bet 06 ammo is more plentiful than the 270.

Recoil? I have only shot two 270s. One was a Rem 700 and the other a Winchester 70. I have shot one 280, Rem 700 Mtn Rifle. I have shot many 30-06. The 270s I shot kicked every bit as much as any of the 06s and worse than the 280. True story. I would say they average out about the same.

Its good, but not the berries..... Every gun has its shortfall....

I would still take the 280 any day of the week for a 140gr gun.

Andy

model 70

12-10-2004, 11:29 PM

Some folks forget ammo or what not.

Like I said, better long range ballistics than the '06.

Classicvette63

12-11-2004, 03:25 AM

I nailed a big buck right behind the lungs this year. Ok, it was gut shot. I used a '06 with 180gr Rn Core-Lokt. It ran about 150 yds. If shot with anyting less, like a .270, 6mm, .30-30 etc it would have ran a lot furhter. There is no doubt about that. When I hunt with the 6mm I know i can bring down a deer, although the placement has to be almost perfect. With a .270 the placement is not 100% critical, and even less so with '06. Even though we all strive for an instantaneously kill. It doesn't always happen.

model 70

12-11-2004, 04:52 AM

How do you figure that? No offense but that just seems rediculous.

Andy L

12-11-2004, 08:27 AM

I just did some comparing, and I dont know model 70.....

You gotta weigh the odds pretty heavy for the 270 to make it out perform the 30-06. With the same weight bullet, 150, its no comparison. The 06 beats it. You have to go all the way down to the 130gr for the 270 to take over with the 06 still shootin a 150gr.

Take the 280, and the same bullet weights and it blows the 270 out of the water in all catagories....

Look, just admit it. They are all fine cartridges. But, the 270 is no better or worse for whitetails than a host of others. Its a good deer rifle. Not the perfect deer rifle. None are.......

Andy

fabsroman

12-11-2004, 10:21 AM

I think that is the point that I was trying to make. No rifle is a perfect deer rifle for all the possible situations that are out there.

model 70

12-11-2004, 10:28 AM

I just can't do it. I dunno, I may be hard headed but I ust can't do it.

I think aswell as Jack O' conner that the 130gr. bullet in a .270 is the best for deer hunting. The only advantage the .270 has over the .280 is the availability of factory ammo. You may roll your own but ALOT of deer hunters out there still shoot the ol' tried and true core-lokts.;)

So when shooting the 180gr. in the '06, the 165 in the .280 abd the 130 in the .270, I'd say the .270 takes 'em.

fabsroman

12-11-2004, 11:59 AM

That post I will agree with.

L. Cooper

12-11-2004, 12:21 PM

A lot of information in this thread that means little. The only way to compare performance between rounds is to make those comparisons with bullets of equal Ballistic Coefficient and equal sectional densities. The weight of the projectile is almost irrelevant to how it performs down range. It's velocity, shape (B.C.), and sectional density will determine its trajectory and retained energy.

Compare the 130 grain .270 to a 200 grain .30 caliber bullet with a B.C. of over .300 at about 2950 fps from a .300 Win and see what the numbers prove downrange.

Such comparisons must be "fair" in a true scientific sense if they are to have real meaning. Andecdotal evidence from individual cases in the field will be interesting but not very important as far as ballistic facts are concerned.

By the way, anyone want to argue about how many angels can sit on the head of a pin? The differences between the .270, .280, and .30-06 on deer are as impossible and irrelevant to define.

model 70

12-11-2004, 12:27 PM

To the last part of that post, I'm talking about real world stuff. Sometimes hunters forget their shells at home. Drop into any local store and you will likely find .270 but not .280 stuff.

The '06 may have a couple hundred more foot lbs. of energy than the .270 but do you think the deer cares? Now, the .270 has maybe an inch or two less drop at long range. It could mean the difference between a complete miss and a killing spine shot. That matters.

fabsroman

12-11-2004, 02:27 PM

You can also look at it the other way. If the person shooting the rifle has no idea about drop and range finding, you can either have a complete miss below the stomach with a .30-06 or a gut shot with a .270 Win.

L. Cooper

12-11-2004, 04:25 PM

While it may be true that .270 ammunition is more available than .280, that fact in no way makes the .270 a more perfect deer cartridge, which I thought was the topic.

If some way could be devised that you were forced to spend the rest of your life shooting a round that you could not identify in any way except by observing the results on paper and animal targets, you would be very hard pressed to tell whether you were shooting the .270, .280 or .30-06.

I will stick with my original contention that there is no PRACTICAL difference between them all when it comes ot shooting deer. Any "proof" that one is superior to the others on deer is a just a paper chase. Note the "on deer" as a qualification. On bigger animals and smaller ones there are differences that can occasionally matter.

model 70

12-11-2004, 05:16 PM

Ok, forget ballistics. Real world stuff here folks. The fact that hunters forget stuff and the fact that in a pinch, you can buy .270 almost anywhere make it more ideal for deer hunting. True, the .280 may be able to do what the .270 can but is not readily available everywhere. This is something alot of folks must do when choosing a one and only deer rifle.

Also, if a hunter does not know what his gun can do, they shouldn't be taking the shot.

skeet

12-11-2004, 08:48 PM

Sure it's perfect for deer as are the others that are listed. Hell A 45-70 is perfect for deer in the right scenario. The point of the whole argument is being missed here. The 270 is a perfect cartridge for deer. That is what it was developed for in the first place. Is it the only perfect cartridge for deer?? No.... Of course not. It works for deer at short range and at long. It's one of those cartridges that just seems to outperform it's actual ballistics. The whole point here is that the cartridge is fairly easy to learn to shoot well because it doesn't recoil excessively. It is flat shooting at pretty long range and ammo is easy to find...anywhere deer are hunted with rifles. Now guys, don't get all het up over this post. It isn't the only perfect round but it is one of the Most perfect. So is the 30-30 for the guy that knows his ranges he can shoot. The 300 Mags are ...well.. perfect for some also. BUT for the average shooter buying his ammo it is one of the best. You all do have to realize that the average hunter probably isn't the best shot in the world...can't take too much recoil and isn't a reloader anyway. I figure that Andy and most of the people who have posted here are above average in their hunting abilities. So be it. BUT the mags aren't easy to shoot and harder to learn to shoot well takes them out of the PERFECT for the average shooter. Heck...I bought a Weatherby 300 Mag to hunt moose with in Alaska. A friend up there still has my rifle and it must be a perfect moose rifle...he kills his every year with it...so it must be perfect for moose. Personally I liked the 338 Win mag for moose a whole lot better. The 338 was fairly easy for me to shoot. The 300 Weatherby??? Hated the darn thing. Kicked violently and was really loud. Couldn't shoot it for squat. I can't sell it cause it was an early Weatherby and worth a good bit. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the PERFECT deer rifle is the one you can shoot the BEST!!!!:eek: A very UNIQUE idea isn't it??:D

Andy L

12-11-2004, 08:50 PM

and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......

and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......

and, the 270 cant do anything the 30-06 cant do.....

and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one.....

i see a pattern here, do you?????

;)

fabsroman

12-11-2004, 10:40 PM

Okay, I now have a headache.

Yes, in a perfect world, the shooter would know his rifle in and out and always make the perfect shot with the perfect deer rifle. Oh yeah, the world isn't perfect.

If it were, we wouldn't have to worry about somebody misjudging distance or the ability of the gun. We would never have to worry about a complete miss because all the shots would be spine or neck shots that are instantaneously deadly.

I agree with one other post. Trying to argue about which deer cartridge is the best is ridiculous. The only question is whether or not the cartridge can get the job done for the person shooting the gun.

Boyd Heaton

12-11-2004, 11:25 PM

Since Fabs brought my name up I will add my 2cents:D ......We have made clean one shot kills on deer at 500 yards with a 270win.Shooting the 140gr BT...That is as far I will will take it tho.It does not drop below 1000ftlbs on energy until about 650 yards.I like to stay as close to that as I can .As for being the perfect cart for all situations,no it is'nt...But for the inside 500 yard guys its real close..Shot placement to me is job one.And yes there are people out there that can make one shot clean kills at 500 yards and beyond in any wind short of a hurricane.Just to add something here..My LR gun is a 300 Ultramag shooting a (Rocky will like this) 210gr Match style bullet with a b.c. of .665 at 3350fps has 2800ftlbs of energy at 650 yards and does'nt drop below 1000 til 1500 yards...My 270 is my go to gun when I'm out walking.And I know it will do the job I ask of it when the time comes

model 70

12-11-2004, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Andy L
and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one.....

I completely disagree.

Jack

12-12-2004, 12:07 AM

This is getting quite ridiculous...
There's likely not a 'perfect' deer rifle, as so many others have said. The terrain where you use the rifle has a whole LOT to do with what you think is 'best'.

"and, they shouldnt forget their ammo at home......
and, if they do, 30-06 is easier to find than 270......"
I doubt that, and either 270 or 30-06 will be easier to find at the corner store than someone's (name withheld) favorite 30 caliber magnum....

"and, a bad hit with a 30-06, 180gr has a better chance of being found than a bad hit 270, 130gr, none a good chance, but a better one....."
I doubt that, too. Based upon my observations (and I don't own a 270)

We all have our favorite cartridges- based on what's worked well for us, or those around us we've seen using their rifles on deer.
Could we leave it at that?

Boyd Heaton

12-12-2004, 12:12 AM

I'll take that in turd-turd please:D

Andy L

12-12-2004, 08:34 AM

I completely agree. Read back and thats what I said in my first post. There is a list of perfect deer rifles. Depends on the situation and the person shooting it. Many, many are capable of the same results.

Sounds like I ruffled some feathers there. Wasnt the intent. I actually was having fun with it. Nothing heated. Just a discussion.

Gotta give you this model 70, you have a strong conviction about the 270. That probably makes it the perfect rifle in your hands for whitetails.

But its not in mine or many others who have the same conviction for a rifle capable of as much or more.......

Good Luck ;) :cool:

Andy

Brithunter

12-12-2004, 08:42 AM

Hi All,

My......My it's getting heated in here:rolleyes:

As for me I don't have a 30.06, might do one day then again I might not. I am certainly not going out looking for one but I have seen a few BSA's chambered in that I am looking for another BSA rifle so............

One thing I don't see mentioned is the use of Hollow point HUNTING bullets. I know of a fellow up in Alaska who swears by them, uses a 115 grn HP in the 7x57 and tells how deadly it is on the Cariboo. I tried some Sierra 140 grn HP's on paper through my BSA CF2 stutzen which has a 20" barrel. Why they chambered such a short barreled rifle in 270 Win God only knows, I tend to used medium burnig rate powders and have good success with H380 and H4895 in this short barreled rifle. Anything slow like Rel 19 and Win 760 gives a BIG fireball out of the muzzle which is wasted energy:rolleyes:

Oh this is the rifle I ws shooting the 130 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips at 600 yards with. You might be surprised to know that the 100 grn Rem PSP bullet does not group at 600 yards:p I tried it and found that out for the fun of it:D

Now I have until next September to decide on which rifle to use in the US for my next Whitetail hunting trip choices are at the moment from:-

270 Win BSA CF2 Stutzen (20" barrel)

270 Win BSA Majestic Featherweight (22" barrel)

7x57mm BSA CF2 (half stocked with 23 1/2" barrel) (used in 2003 Whitetail season)

.303 British BSA Model E (24" barrel)

.308 CZ-Brno Mod 601 (24" barrel)

7.92mm (8x57) Parker-Hale 1200 Super (24" barrel)

6.5x55 Mauser M96 (Slide Bolt with 22" barrel)

6.5x55 Sporterised Gustave Mauser (22" barrel)

9.3x75mm Husqvarna Mod 46 (24 1/2" barrel)

6.5x54MS 1903 Schoenauer (23 1/2" barrel)

30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt ( Bespoke bolt action rifle with a 25" barrel, shoots 130 Grn spitzers into less than 5/8"at 2800 fps)

Which ever one I choose will be shooting at 1" or less at 100 yards with the hunting ammunition, I would prefer less than 2" at 200 yards but my three Whitetails I shot in 2003 the furthest shot was at about 65 yards and I was expecting up to 300 yard shots:rolleyes: A few I have still to work with to get the accuracy I am aiming at others exceed it already, I hunt with them all here and I enjoy collecting them as much as I do shooting them.

As you can see I have no favorite cartridge, the 6.5x55 Swedish has done me proud, as has the .308 win, 30-30 Win and 7x57mm. As yet I have to take game animals with the others, the .303 has taken Fox but not Deer as of yet and with the 270 Win I have had Deer in the sights but only to be the wrong Deer or sex and either not the beast to be culled or out of season due to being wrong sex. Roe are in season all year but only one sex at a time, it's Does just now:D

Me once I get the accuracy I want then it's how I feel at the time and where I am going which makes the choice, for Air travel I want a QD scope set up so I can carry the scope in my hand luggage. Not all are set up this way just now but I am working on that;)

royinidaho

12-12-2004, 10:19 AM

Brithunter,

Appreciated your info, especially the details on the 30-30.

It seems that the 30-30 Win Medwell & Perritt is one of your favorites. I can sense why.

You listed 270 Winchesters with 20 and 22 inch bbls. With those barrel lengths there will probably be not much difference in performance from the 30-30.

For the ranges you seem to be shooting and the game size I'd also lean towards the 30-30 in "that" rifle.

Put a 25" bbl even better a 27" on the 270 and you have a whole different breed of cat. Velocity may increase from somewhat less than 3000 fps to something on the order of 3200 fps or maybe even more with the right barrel specifications.

With the increased BC and velocity your range will have been quite extended. But it seems not really necessary for your general shooting environment.

Where I find this increased "flatness" helps is where one is hunting in an area where the shot will be well under 100 yds and 30 minutes later the opportunity will be more like 300 yds.

BTW, if I was given the opportunty to select one of your collection for my only big game rifle it would be the 7X57.

Took my first whitetail (1958) with my first rifle (7X57mm) when the only ammo available was 175 gr factory loads. That rifle (surplus Model 93 Mauser) is still being used in Western Pennsylvania. Its been a first rifle for a lot of youngsters.

model 70

12-12-2004, 10:38 AM

Like I said, I'm stubborn. I still think the .270win covers every type of deer hunting in any condition with any species of deer you will find, perfectly.

I can promise you the .270 with 22" barrel hits ALOT harder and shoot ALOT flatter than ANY 30-30win.

No heat from this guy btw.

Rocky Raab

12-12-2004, 11:24 AM

Copy the cool, M-70.

Guys, it's really simple: EVERY cartridge out there is just peachy keen, cat's whiskers, dead nuts perfect - for somebody.

It might be affected by how they hunt or where they hunt or what else they hunt for. Or it might be because they're hunting with Grampaw's ol' shell-shucker.

Or just maybe because they once made a miracle shot with it. But THIS O'l Betsy and no other is the PERFECT deer rifle for him. And ain't no arguin' wit dat.

;)

Brithunter

12-12-2004, 12:19 PM

Hi royinidaho,

Thank you fro you kind comments, yes I am rather proud of the Medwell rifle, it's a one of a kind in the true way. I did not order it just picked it up when it came on the market and I would have liked to have brought it to the US last year with me but I was not able to get insurance to cover it. The makers gave me a quote to replace it and the insurance companies don't like it:( The load I am using is not at the top yet but the accuracy is so good I stopped right there, funny thing is I get the about same velocity with 150 grn flat point bullets as well just under 2800fps.

As for the BSA 270's well I have the odd ones the Std weight Majestic has a 24" barrel on it, the featherweight only weighs 6 1/4lbs and was made in 1959, the CF2 was made in 1984 and strangely has a slightly loser chamber than the older majestic, the CF2 was brought new. I have some chrongraph results from the Stutzen 20" barrel using RWS factory ammuntition, The results are over 5 shots. So the 270 does surpass the 30-30 even with my hopped up reloads.

173 grn H-Mantle loads average was 2563

130 grn T-Mantle loads average was 2996

I have not checked velocities with the longer barreled Majestic yet, I need to borrow the chrono first. Must get one of my own one day:rolleyes:

For comparison the 30-30 gave an average of:-

2756 fps using the 130 grn bullets

2677 fps using the 150 grn bullets

Upon checking my reloading records I see this is when I was working up the loads and I have increased the powder charge a bit since then, but it still does not equal the 270's velocity of near 3,000fps.

Oh I noticed that I also checked out the 7x57 handloads the same day using the Hornady 139 grn BTSP bullets:-

and got an average of 2773 fps

Which again I have increased slightly to get over 2800fps.

Where I hunt here I have the chane of shots out past 300 yards, but I seem to get the real chances close up for some reason or another but I do agree that the 7x57mm is a great old timer which performs as well today as it ever as done. I have 4 rfles in 7x57, 3 of them are M93 Boer Mausers including this one:-

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/319133/9876878.jpg
It's one of the rarer Boer Plezier rifles, I need to get the fore sight blade repaired as the bead has been broken off the fine blade. And yes I have shot it, in fact I brought some Remington 175 Grn bullets so I can load som e cartridges close to it's original loadings so it will shoot close to the sights. The other two are a long rifle and a carbine.

The 270 Win has a soft spot for me as it was my first rifle I purchased and I doubt I will let it go.

Andy L

12-12-2004, 01:27 PM

BINGO Rocky!!

I got a ten year old boy that would argue all day long with you on this subject. Your not going to tell him that a 243 with an 80gr bullet is not perfect for deer. He has fired 4 shots in 4 years and killed 4 deer with it from 50-150 yards. To him, its the perfect deer rifle and you wont change his mind.

Same for alot of us. I happen to like alot of different guns. By doing so, I have learned just what I have been trying to say and Rocky just hammered home......

Andy

model 70

12-12-2004, 03:45 PM

Does your son not know the ballistics of the .243 or something?

Brithunter

12-12-2004, 04:44 PM

Hi Model 70,

Weeeeeeeell you could talk ballistics all day to that boy but you won't change his mind and not a lot will until some thing bad happens whilst Deer hunting and he loses one. :(

I pray that this will not happen and he will grow into other rifels/cartridges as his interest in shooting grows. All he needs to know about ballitics now is that when he aligns those sights correctly the Deer is his:p it does not matter how fast his bullet is going or what the BC is. It works and that's all he cares about right now, not a bad state of mind to be in I might say. The technical bods amongst us often confuse ourselves with too much data and then make a muck up of it:confused: the less to think about the less to go wrong at that point.

If you look at my chrono figures I have loaded the 7x57 so it's not far behind the 270 Win, the data for the 270 was with 130 grn bullets and the 7mm used 139 grn bullets. Less than 200 fps between them and I can load the 7mm some more for a higher velocity yet and close te gap some more. I wonder what the difference would be if I loaded them to equal pressures. The rifle is the same make and model so the strength is not an issue, brass is brass and 7mm cases are a good design after all the 30-06 is based on the 7mm
:p

Andy L

12-12-2004, 06:28 PM

Hes about ready to graduate after next year. His little brother will be ready to start and inherit the 243 Handi Rifle Youth and big brother will move up a bit. Into another "perfect deer cartridge".

I havent made my mind up yet on what to get him. I think Im going to get him something I have been wanting. A TC Encore. Probably with 25-06, 17Rem and 50cal blackpowder bbls. He can use it for both our deer seasons and coyote hunts. (May be two bought just alike, dad wants one too.... ;) )

He dont know much about ballistics, more than you probably think he would for his age, as hes been around it alot.

For him, the 243 has been a perfect deer cartridge. Good for any kid I would think. I know alot of adults that swear by it too. I have killed several deer with mine too, but it seems to gather alot of dust anymore. Found others I like better for deer and coyotes. Still a fine round.

BTW, Brit, you are correct. He knows that if he sees a deer that dad says is in range and he lays that little rifle up on those sticks and puts those crosshairs behind the deers shoulder and holds it steady as he squeezes the trigger, the deer will go down and he is one happy camper. And dad gets a full body arm and leg hug.
:) Well, I did. I guess hes growing up. This year he got up and shook my head and said thanks, that is a nice deer.... My little boys growin up.

Andy

Brithunter

12-12-2004, 07:26 PM

Hi Andy,

Have you thought about the .257 Roberts cartridge? seems a fine Deer cartridge in a more effecient compact package than the 25-06, velocity does not seems much difference in them. Or another favorite is the 6.5x55 Swedish cartridge, Boy there is a wide selection of bullets for the 6.5x55 and the Encore is available in this chambering. A fellow from another site uses one a lot and has great success with it. The 6.5 cartridge is fully capable of taking Moose and Elk cleanly with the 160 grn bullets:cool:

Have fun with your shopping:D

Andy L

12-12-2004, 08:04 PM

Brit,
Yeah, Ive thought about it. Ive always kinda had a love affair with the 25-06. Its not much more than the 257, but a bit. We all have our preferences.... ;)

I have considered the 6.5x55 seriously. I have been exposed to them quite a bit and they are impressive. I agree stongly with that. After I wrote what I wrote above, I actually thought about that. I have a 25-06 and that 6.5 might be a nice addition.

Ive studied alot of cartridges I hadnt studied much before this thread. I have killed a deer with my buddies 280 Mountain Rifle once when I had some technical trouble with mine. It was very impressive and after studying ballistics on it closer, thats a real option. Awesome ballistics, velocity, trajectory, enery, bc, its got it all.

Decisions, decisons. :) I would bet that since I already have the 25, I will end up with either the 6.5x55 or 280.

I really do need some more deer rifles. :rolleyes: :D

Andy

model 70

12-12-2004, 11:56 PM

So we're all agreed?

Brithunter

12-13-2004, 01:42 AM

Hi All,

Yes you can never have too many Deer rifles, I find just like candy, one is never enough:D

Andy L

12-13-2004, 08:01 AM

agreed on what?

model 70

12-13-2004, 08:22 AM

That the .270 is the perfect deer cartridge.

Andy L

12-13-2004, 08:50 AM

Where did I say that??

model 70

12-13-2004, 12:58 PM

Um...I read between the lines?

Brithunter

12-13-2004, 02:36 PM

Hi All,

Well now we know that Andy's 10 year old son is not the only one who won't listen:rolleyes:

Model70 is as stubbon/daft/bumb (delete as required);)

Andy L

12-13-2004, 03:14 PM

model 70

12-13-2004, 03:34 PM

For a second I thought you said DUMB. I'm anything but.

gregarat

12-13-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by model 70
So we're all agreed? Yes already!

6.5x55 it is;)

fabsroman

12-14-2004, 11:27 AM

I must say that I did get a pretty good chuckle out of Model 70's posts alond with the rest of the posts, and I pretty much needed a laugh this morning after finding out that my sister's BMW was stolen last night. I told her not to get that car, but she continued to argue with me that it is the perfect car. LOL

For the last time, I will say that the perfect rifle is in the eyes/hands of the holder using the rifle. I prefer the .300 Win Mag that I own. Others might not like the recoil and I might not like to shoot somebody else's .300 Win Mag. I have a .270 Win in a Remington 700 that I truely do not like. I have modified it in the same manner as the .300 Win Mag, which happens to be a Ruger 77MKII, and I just don't like that gun compared to the .300 Win Mag. I also have a .30-06 Savage Model 110 that my dad bought before I was born and I don't really like shooting that rifle either, but will if I have to. Now, all three of the rifles have killed their fair share of deer, I just prefer the .300 Win Mag.

ONEBADAPPLE

12-18-2004, 11:27 AM

holy crap 800 yard shots!!!! yall wouldn't impress me with kill shot id figure yah ain't a very good hunter not to be able to close the gap or just plain lazy:D
well i've honestly had a old .270 fail me twice that was enough for me to say it aint for cedar swamp hunting!!!! although it wasn't the bullets fault or mine and not really sure if even my .358 would have connected through the one stupid twig in the way!!! two times...now if i was watching a OPEN FIELD i wouldn't mind having a .270 win thats for sure!!!
800 yards hehe thats freekin wild glad i read this post!!!!good for giggles
OBA

Brithunter

12-18-2004, 05:40 PM

Hi All,

Whoops I mis-typed it.................. yey the last option was supposed to say dumb:rolleyes: I did say delete as required:D

However I have to agree with greg..................on the 6.5x55mm it's an awesome cartridge and one I have used a lot:p

As for distance shooting, hmmm seems I don't get the chance just now, the longest shot I have taken Deer with since last Feburary when I shot a Muntjac Doe at about 130 yards is about 65 yards. The last one a Roe Doe when I first saw her she was all of 15 paces away, me of course was loking the wrong way trying to spot some Fallow about 300 yards away when she came in behind me:rolleyes: I shot he at about 50-65 yards when she trotted up the hedge line and then stopped to look back.

I have a friend who is now obsessed with the idea of shooting a Der at 500 yards, he has done the close up stuff and has built a rifle which is capable of shooting 4 1/2" groups at 600 yards from prone. He shoots a lot of 600 yard High power matches, but yet again this past Whitetail season he got nearly all close up shots:D in fact he sat under a tree from first light watching a Deer crossing and about 11 AM he decided it was time for a coffe break, he suddenly noticed a patch of Brown/White and when he put the binos on it noticed a Doe looking at him bedded down:rolleyes: so he put the coffee on hold and shot he at about 50 yards centre of the neck as she lay in her bed.

Later that week whilst sitting under a tree before first light he had a young Doe feed up to him until it was only 8 feet away, so much for long range shooting:D

royinidaho

12-18-2004, 08:58 PM

Not only that, its the perfect benchrest gun. If it had just a little more poop it'd be the perfence 1000 yd rifle.:rolleyes:

Just had a good day to day. Was doing final sighting getting ready for the Christmas elk hunt.

Was coaching the son on how to shoot the 270. He needs some more shooting time. All groups (3-shot) were well under the inch. Of course my were even smaller.:) Then he put a 0.125" one together. It was great to watch the his stress then relief what that 3rd on went "in there"

Hey, a bind hog stumbles onto an acern once in awhile.

Enjoyed the thread. Give another year os so and it'll be back.

fabsroman

12-20-2004, 12:34 AM

OBA,

I have only had a very long shot (i.e., over 400 yards) presented to me once in the time I have been hunting for deer. That day, I had 8 does pass by me on the run, they stopped at 150 yards to look back at me while I was trying to get a bead on them. I happened to be hunting on the ground that day about 3 years ago. I killed two at 150 yards before they entered the brush. They popped back out somewhere between 200 and 300 yards away and I killed another. After that, they ran through an alfalfa field and stopped a ways away. I had the time to set up the rifle, but didn't have a range finder on me and couldn't tell what the distance was so I didn't take the shot. I seriously doubt I could have closed the distance on those deer with them looking right back at me. If I had it to do over again today, I still doubt I would have taken the 800 yard shot that day even with a range finder unless I had a drop chart on me too and a really steady rest.

Further, the land I hunt around here isn't a vast ranch where you can wait for the right moment to stalk game or use different terrain to stalk them and take different approaches. Yes, I have seen the stalks that are done on these hunting shows and there is no way that I would have the opportunity to do that. The largest farm I hunt is 300 acres, it is on the side of a mountain, and it is rather narrow. By the time I stalked to within your reasonable range, the deer would most likely have moved off the farm or seen me coming down the mountain. I don't have the luxury of waiting the game out and seeing what they will do. I looks at some of these hunting shows in complete disbelief and wonder how these guys would fair hunting on small parcels of property. I am also astounded by the number of big bucks I see on these farms that are just eating right next to one another. I have never seen that during any of my hunting. In fact, I have yet to see two bucks in the same group of deer.

Evan03

12-20-2004, 05:23 PM

isnt it cool when we can argue about what caliber is best to kill a deer..

im with rocky on this one and consider everthing above 243 to kill deer with plenty authority.

hmmmmmmm but what have i killed deer and elk with. i may have had alot of calibers. have alittle varity now but there is one caliber that has done it all for me its taken 5-7 deer, cant remember for sure how many. ranges have been 20yds to 300 plus. and its also taken one bull elk.

it just so happens that this is a 270win. the rifle hasnt done me wrong. it was my first rifle and by all rights should have been my last, except for i somehow grew this infactuation to give dang near everything on the list a try.

ive had a few 3006's but they have been parted from me for awhile now.

at the present moment my main hunting rigs are my 25.06 the 25.06 is the never get rid of rifle. im kinda scared of recoil so i realy like the 25. its also so dang acurate to exstended ranges that itl be with me forever.

the other rifle thats set up is my winchester featherweight. this is chamberd in 270wsm .277 i wonder why picked the 270wsm over all the new short mag calibers out there.

i also just picked up 300win, ive been wanting one for awhile now and i ran into this rifle. the possiblities for this rifle are endless. the rifles i hunt with tend to get used as varmit rifles alot dureing the off season. this rifle shouldnt be any exsception. if it fairs well on coyotes and rock chucks itl be going deer and elk hunting with me come bigame season. it also may go on a moose hunt later on. but it surely want replace my smaller calibers. and chances are it will be used strickly as my elk rig.

so all in all i kinda like everything out there thats 300win and smaller. 300win is biggest baddest magnum caliber ill ever own.

the 277 calibers will more than likly continue to be the staples of my deer rifle line up.

fabsroman

i couldnt imagine what it would be like to take more than one deer in season. my guess is alot more work in our country. you can dang near take in season what we can in life time. thats cool

Evan

ONEBADAPPLE

12-22-2004, 04:57 AM

fabsroman
i'll say great shooting!!!
were i hunt im lucky to see one doe in a day (thanks in part to our insurance co's pushing for liberal doe harvests) and i guess some hard winters or wolves!?!?! but there's always that chance to see a bigboy
down in the dark cedar..
OBA

Evan03

12-22-2004, 07:26 PM

you wanna know what i think.?????????? sure you do.

see all this productive argueing wee have going ????? i realy do think it is productive though it wont get anywhere or lead to anything.

what i think?????

we should have forumn for only this conversation. it would more than likly get alot of attention and cover alot of ground in an imformative way.

call it

06 calibers vs the rest.

the 06 calibers are anything that started life with the 30.06 case. this could be the 3 common 25.06 270, 3006. or they could be wildcats. 338/06 35whelen. 6mm/06 6.5/06.

with a list of 06 calibers like this theres nothing that cant be done. why not have a forumn with only this kind of information.

i know i dont realy see this happening but if you think about the froumn wouldnt be a bad one in any regards.. it would alot times have guys argueing there point for the 06 calibers side and even sometimes some of use would be adviseing agaisnt it to 300win or something of the sort.

the froumn realy couldnt go wrong and would inform people alot more on the calibers than they are.

Evan

Andy L

12-22-2004, 07:49 PM

Evan,
You forgot probably the best performer of the 06's. The 280. Check it out, very impressive. Its the only one I saw while researching on this thread that approaches the 300 Win.

Im gettin old and tired of that kickin mag, even though its been the ultimate best performer for the last 20 years, more or less, and killed more deer than a freight train can haul, with very few taking more than a step or two. I think a .280 is going to be in my safe very soon. Probably in an Encore but possibly in a Mountain Rifle.

Check for yourself. Pretty awesome.

Andy

Evan03

12-22-2004, 09:28 PM

Andy

i was saveing the best for last. dont know how i didnt think to think of the 280.

there are 4 common 06 calibers not 3

with my current caliber list i cant realy see a 280 being added any time soon, but that doesnt me i wont run into one i just have to have.

Evan

fabsroman

12-23-2004, 12:45 AM

OBA,

I killed 12 deer total last year and ended up killing 8 deer in a single day. I saw so many deer and passed on quite a few too. The deer population here is quite insane. What is funny is that 10 years ago I would have been lucky to see a deer. Now, I see a deer almost every time I go out hunting for them. I only went deer hunting once this year and saw 4 antlerless deer, 2 of which I killed at over 200 yards.

Next year, I think I am really going to hit the deer hard so that I can actually fill up the freezer and cut down on our grocery bill.

As far as insurance companies are concerned, they are pushing to have all the deer killed in this state and in 2 out of 4 of the regions there is no limit on the number of antlerless deer that can be killed. Quite honestly, they would have to really extend the season in those areas for there to be any significant impact on the deer population.

Evan03

12-23-2004, 06:16 AM

that realy is lifetime of hunting to alot of people.

glad you have the opurtunity

model 70

12-23-2004, 09:03 AM

Wish I could be that fortunate. No doubt I'd have a .270win in my hands whenever I'm pulling the trigger on a big buck...or doe...anywhere.

earschplitinloudenboomer

12-23-2004, 05:19 PM

...I tend to agree with Rocky Raab....while there are no guaranteed kills in a "fair chase" situation, the increased possibility of a wounded animal is, I feel, somewhat proportional to distance to the animal.

Evan03

12-23-2004, 08:54 PM

model70

ive been negleting my 270win over the last few years. i guess that happend when i got my 25.06.

ive been thinkn about setn the 270 up as my light weight pack anywhere anytime rifle. im thinkn a lower power leo with a 32 objective or smaller in a light stock. that set up would be the opisite of every other rifle i have, all the others are right over 8lbs unscoped. the wsm is 7.5 but thats kinda how i like them.

i figure if i get the 270 at 7.5 scoped id be happy and have something that packs easy and still can take game at 200 plus as easy as the rest.

earschplitinloudenboomer

12-26-2004, 05:35 PM

Read back a little farther guys...when Jack O'Conner built a rifle for his wife, Eleanor, he chose a 6 MM, in Jacks words "...a fine long range, thin skinned big game cartridge".

I grew up reading Jack O'Conner, I love his hunting stories, his writing style, his life style, the Model 70 Winchester in .270 Win. and hunting White Tail deer.

I also love blondes, but an occasional, discreet redhead does hold a lot of intrigue!!!

Evan03

12-26-2004, 06:04 PM

"I also love blondes, but an occasional, discreet redhead does hold a lot of intrigue!!!"

:D

model 70

12-26-2004, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by earschplitinloudenboomer
Read back a little farther guys...when Jack O'Conner built a rifle for his wife, Eleanor, he chose a 6 MM, in Jacks words "...a fine long range, thin skinned big game cartridge".

Yes, a fine cartridge indeed but not as PERFECT as the .270:D

6.5s4ever

12-02-2005, 03:09 PM

I really dont care what rifle your packing, But shooting a deer at 800 yds!, you better check the charts for ft lbs of energy left in whatever weight bullet you are shooting and hope there is no wind drift let alone speculating bullet drop for a hold over shot . What I am basically saying is dont push your luck and get closer to the animal to make a clean kill period!!!! Dont Take Chances even if you are an expert rifleman!:)

sladek

12-02-2005, 03:19 PM

The .270 is a great round for deer, thats proven, is it the perfect round? Well, how do you describe "perfect" does/can it kill a deer at close range? at long range?(reasonable range, not a made up 800 yard senerio, thats unrealistic for a lot of shooters) Is it close to a 30.06 or .300 ballistically? Yes to all the above

Bottom line is, there is no "perfect" round for all situations.....It really all depends on how well you shoot, and who is doing the shooting. A 10 year old or your wife/girlfriend shooting a .300 would probrably not call the .300 a perfect round, on the other hand if they shot a .243 or .270 it might be more to their liking.....The "perfect" caliber is the one you shoot the best with, and the one that is most comfortable to shoot, and still capable of killing a good size deer at close to moderate ranges, without destroying the deer, leave the "800 yard" shots to the experts...... and .243, 25.06, .270, and 30.06 fit all these bills perfectly.......I can't see any reason to use anything bigger than the above, unless you are hunting large game, Elk Moose...........the .270 would work and the 30.06 is more than enough, but at long range or larger game than the .300 or .325WSM(my fav) or larger might be the perfect round.......except for some dangerous game......But if you look at the history, track record, sales, popularity, chamberings, versatility, bullet weights, ...etc, for any caliber, then the 30.06 would be the perfect cartridge hands down....

Evan03

12-06-2005, 10:36 PM

finaly added a 3 point buck to my 2506 list of kills.

one shot at about 200ish maybe alittle less maybe alittle more. thank goodness for flat shooting. one shot dropped the buck to his knees right where he was standing. recoverd the 100gr nosler balistick tipp in an almost picture perfect mushroom just inside the hide on the far side.

i plan to take more deer with this combo. i also plan to try the 85gr 6mm hunting bullets in whatever 6mm i end up.

personaly i wasnt going to type another reply in this topick but i figured what the heck ive been exscited about the 2506's perfromance and wanted to talk it up just alittle more.

id also like to say that if you ask me what the perfect deer calibers is id tell you that i realy have no clue. just stay away from the loud boomer big magnum cased calibers and you will do great. and preferably keep the smallest caliber to 6mm and larger.

the first deer i ever shot was with my 270win at about 20yds deer was shot ounce in the shoulder blades. it was ugly but it did the job. took about 5 more after that with the same 270 from 100-further than 300. the caliber just plain works.
then so did the 2506.

i like playing with calibers that recoil less than the 270win. though not a ton of recoil with it it just doenst lend itself to alot of shooting. id better ad that i also have 3006 im playing with.

i just like to play and chances are i will never find that one caliber that stands out as single most perfect deer caliber out there.

but if i did pick the 270 ass my deer only rifle then that would be one good decision.

Evan

Evan03

12-06-2005, 11:03 PM

i also decided that for one to decide what the best deer rifle is that he or she must try them all to determine that.

im on the mission to do just that.

wish me luck

Evan

rem 700

12-07-2005, 08:11 PM

Forget about the cartridge you're using. Just be sure you're using the trusty Remington 700.

Evan03

12-08-2005, 07:07 AM

ohhhhhhhh but thats an entire difrent debate on its own;)

Brithunter

12-09-2005, 04:19 AM

Sorry Rem700 but your just plain sick:rolleyes:

I do not nor will I ever probably own a 700 remington, they are awful. I cannot put my finger on what it is about them I dislike so but they don't feel right. A friend has one a 700 VSS in .223. sure his is accurate but then he did buy it in about 1985 but even he admits his win 70 heavy barrel synthetic stocked rifle he brought about 3 years later leaves in in the dust for accuracy.

For me I prefer traditionly made firearms forged bolts and recievers not tubing with brazed on bits, but hey it's your money:confused: .

As for the .270 win well I like it but it's been an unlucky cartridge for me :( it was the first full bore cartridge I had and I have yet to take a beast with it. It always seesm that when I get a beast in my sights when carrying a .270 rifle that it's either the wrong beast, wrong sex and out of season or it's an unsafe shot :rolleyes:

However just now I am starting to play with a 6mm Remington chambered Parker-Hale 1200V with heavey barrel. The brass just arrived this morning so now I can start, got the dies last week:p

rem 700

12-09-2005, 07:00 PM

I've had luck with my 700s myself. They'll all keep it in an inch @ 300yds w/ a rest, no matter how old one of them is(ie, 1970s and younger, with no new parts ever needed--only 1 has a heavy barrel on it which is a 22/250). As for Win. 70s, they're classic, but don't match the accuracy and have a bad time with out of box accuracy and reliability in harsh conditions you could one day accidentally trust it to.

Brithunter

12-09-2005, 07:22 PM

Hi rem700,

Yep you got it bad :D

Heck if you like them that's all that matters. We don't see very many Remingtons here despite heavy advertising although I believe that certain range shooters have them. None of the folks I normally shoot with do though and I have seen exactly two Savage bolt guns, and bump into the occasional Winchester.

Most of the rifles are either older British ones (BSA & Parker-Hale) or European ones. can't say I am too impressed with Sauers 200 and 202 rifles, they look nice but the ones I have sen and had the chance to shoot did not perform very well for accuracy:rolleyes:

This is the 6mm Rem I am playing with,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/6mmRemP-H1200VRHS.jpg

just sized and trimmed the 100 new R.P cases next it's check for weight then decide on a load for the 70 Grn Sierra MatchKings I have. Might look at BLC-2 as I have a fair bit on hand, also have some H380, Rel 15 & 19. Oh decisions......... decisions :p

rem 700

12-10-2005, 02:29 PM

Nice to have a classic debat on rifles...anywho, good luck with your 6mm finding the perfect load for them tacks you're gonna shoot.

Brithunter

12-10-2005, 04:32 PM

Hi rem700,

Thankyou, that's what I like about this hobby, it's OK to like different things :D sure would be boring if we all wanted exactly the same.

At one time I didn't want a Parker-Hale rifle as I find the BSA actions so much smoother :p but P-H has a better trigger :rolleyes: now I have 4 P-H rifles and am wondering if they are breeding? :eek:

Yesterday evening I sixed the 100 new R.P cases for the 6mm and then trimmed them to 2.220 so they all cleaned up. I then this morning weighed 20 of them and took the average which was 170.94 grns and went =/- 1% and weighed the rest. Doing this I culled 7 cases now it's time to choose a load, bullets are Sierra 70 grn HP MatchKings primers are Rem 9 1/2. Now for powders it's between :-

Varget
BLC-2
Rel 15
Rel 19

Oh the barrel is 24" long!

On hand I have more i.e several tubs of both BLC-2 and Rel 19 and would rather use them if possible as the price of powder here is ridiculas :eek: how about $57 US a 1lb tub:eek: :rolleyes: :( hence I want to use what I have.

Then all I need to do is find somewhere to shoot:confused: having moved not too long ago it's proving a problem even the locla club is not having a range day this year and I doubt one in January so it means travelling and just now money is tight :rolleyes: Oh well I will figure something out in the end I suppose.