might be kickn the 270wsm as my lang range rifle

[Evan03]

today i grabbed a tang safety ruger chamberd in 300win. walnut blued combo with the standerd 24" mag taper barrel that all the magnums except for the wsm calibers have.


i think i may mount 6-18 leo and see what see can do at 100yds before i make any conclusions. on makeing this my 550yd rig over the 270wsm. i say 550 cause thats just over 500yds and farther than i realy want to shoot.

ill be loading for this along with shooting factory ammo to get brash. all depnds on how it shoots factorys.

im realy hopeing this rifle shoots as good as the the 300win rifles i shot this summer.

Evan

[Evan03]

ive made some decisions.

scope will be 6-18 leo with this reticle. set up to my load.
http://www.premierreticles.com/index.php?uid=5465&page=1869&main=1

first thing i need to do is load some ammo, toss 3-9 on it and find a honey load.


what powders and bullets would you guys recomend i start with. i was thinkin nolser balistic tips. theyve donw me nothin but good in my other rifles.

id like to try bullets in ranges from 165-180 possibly 200. ill work mostly wih the 165-180s unless i should go to the 200 or heavier for higher BC if you guys sujest so. im think 180 will do me plenty good on the game i hunt.

the dots are set up to go out to 600yds, i could probly have them and hash marks between dots. for say the 350yds shots n so on.

im takeing the easy way out here. i dontr think i realy want to mess with gen 2 milldot unless they place the dots to my rifles trajectory curve.

im fairly excited to get into this longer range shooting. and working with the 300win should prove to be my best bet. it should out do the 277cal in the wind past 400. if i ever have to take shot that far. though i dont plan to be pushn projectiles at deer or with the wind blowing. im just not good enough to even begin to try and dope the wind..

anyways thats where im at. a difrent rifle now with the same idea in mind.

Roy is your 338 a ruger.???


thanks in advance for any replies

Evan

[royinidaho]

As for powder something with an RL at the front of it. Having good luck with any of the RLs with any bullet in any of my calibers. However, it is quite temperature sensitive. Summer to winter is a loss of better than 100 fps in anything I shoot.

How about something like those 2-dollar lost river 165s at 3200 or so. That'll getcha serious real quick.

Same as shooting the 338 except recoil not $ is the limiting factor. I'm down to 1 shot groups with it.;)

BTW itsa Rem 700

[Evan03]

i was thinkn 165s -168s in the 3200 ballpark but i didnt know wether 180s would be better for longer ranges. the ranges im planning to shoot the 165s should work great.

i did search last night getn info in 30cal bullets. the bullets with the highest BC ive found are the barnes. hornady 168 Amax has 495 BC think some of the barns bullets went into 550

the 180 triple shocks is at .552, the 168 .476.

nosler bullets seemed to be lacking in the BC department. exspecialy the partitions.

i think weve talked about those lost rivers before. i doubt ill br shooting any of those. i guess i dont need to be that serious. that cavity is kinda cool lookin though. i think we were talkn 277 bullets then.

what does this mean, this bullet has BC numbers all over the place.


Bullet Name Diameter
inches Weight
grains Sectional
Density Ballistic
Coefficients
.308 dia. 168 gr. HPBT MatchKing .308 168 .253 .462 @ 2600 fps and above
.447 between 2600 and 2100 fps
.424 between 2100 and 1600 fps
.405 @ 1600 fps and below

[royinidaho]

Evano3,

The different number just show the different level of effect of air on the bullet at different velocity ranges.

I always pick the highest BC to use cause it makes me feel better and looks better when a computer code is run on it.

But then I go to the bench and shoot at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500. and now 650 yds and make an "real" drop chart. Then I don't care what the "actual" BC is.

Soon, a couple of months, I'll be out to 700 yds or so. Figure that's as far as I can expect to hit a paper target.

However, I do expect to get a 600 yd + yote this winter.LOL...:rolleyes:

The ol' 270 is turning out to be a "practice gun" for when I get the serious LR rifle. [28 3/4" #7 or 8 Lilja in a tight chambered 338 RUM or 338-300 RUM don't know which quite yet)

BTW, a bunch of yotes are howling about 400 yds behind the house as I write this (0130 hrs) Gotta get me a night scope.:cool:

[royinidaho]

Evan03,

Another oh by the way,

Same bunch of yotes howling @ 80 yds behind the house. Its now 0229 hrs.

Time for a nap.

Just tho't ya otta know.

We gonna do some serious yote thumpin' after xmas, yea!:D

[bigbrother]

If you're planning on shooting the 300 to about 500 yds or so, the really heavy, high b.c. bullets aren't going to add that much to your shooting other than recoil. Things don't really get interesting until you pass the 600 yd mark. Then things start to get funny. You might want to look at the 190g SMK though. I've never shot any, but my gunsmith shoots them out of his .30gibbs at Williamsport in 1000yd benchrest comps. That might be the best combination of b.c. and weight for that case. My other choice would be the 178 AMAX. Like I said, don't worry too much about the b.c. for under 500 yds. Just shoot the one that you barrel likes the best. It's all about bullet placement, not bullet type.

FYI, my experience with the barnes bullets out of 2 different guns was that it took a lot of fidgeting to get them to shoot. I never did get them to shoot good enough for what I would call a long range bullet.

I don't think your going wrong with the premier reticle. Again, I've never used one, but everyone that has one absolutely loves it. The 6 to 18 will work plenty well to 500yds. I shoot a fixed 20x on my long range gun and have had no problems. The benefit you will have will be target aquisition on lower power then you can "zoom" in to 18 for the shot.

One other thought. You might want a brake on your gun if you want to see bullet impact. The recoil of the 300 will definately not allow you to see your hits without one. Either that or talk someone into tagging along.:D

[Evan03]

im a big hater of brakes of any kind shape or form, will not ever use or try one.:D

if i cant shoot it i cant shoot and will drop the caliber like a bad habit.

sorry bout the getn alittle testy when you threw out there that a brake might help with seeing the impacts.

ive just never been fan and dont care to be, i may be misn out in the long range world without one while shootin a decent kickers.

the 168amax had the same bs as the 175 whatever it is, ill check just to make sure. ill try a slew of bullets in the 165-180.

the reason i want to try the barnes tripple shock is because of the high BC and they shoot very well behind a sizln hot load in my 25.06 maybe the 300 would be the same. the first bullets i try will be the 168 amax. because it just may be where i stay if acuracy is there. then second will be the tripple shock due to the fast that i need(want) a tough bullet for elk and larger sized game. i may end up pushn nsler BTs aswell. they havent done me wrong so far.


my being lazy about the milldot thing isnt saveing me cany money by going with the premier reticle range compesateing reticle. the reticle will cost 255 to be installed in my scope. thats puts the price of the 6-18 loe at dang near 800. if i could talk myself into running a normal milldot i could get into a better scope for that amount of cash. i realy dont want to mess with drop charts and all that.

there wouldnt be anything cooler than looking through my scope and knowing the the first dot is 300yds, 2nd dot is 400 3rd is 500 and 4th is 600. and set up to my load to boot. but would just save me frustration. id be out there proveing the dots right or wrong on paper at those ranges.

so is 255 bucks worth it to save me some frustration. i think so, i may even get alittle piece of mind outa the deal to.

thanks guys for your replys

i realy enjoy hearing what everyones got to say


Evan

[Evan03]

been shootin the wsm alittle bit lately, went out and did some jack rabbit plinkn, i was shootin my 25 and a budy was shootin the wsm, i tagged a couple rabbits at 300yds, he missed a few.

i go let me see that thing and blasted one with the wsm, he must have been holding high. told him to hold dead on then he hit a FEW AND MISSED A FEW.

my reloads are about gone now so im gona have to rework some loadds and find where i left my powder, heck i dont even know where my dies are.

i wanna try some mag pro and retumbo powder and see what i can do with the 140 nolser bt. maybe push it like its 130gr pill, but from what i found with my last powder acuracy comes at just lower then a maxed out case.

[Hi Ball]

Evan03, try jerking off that barrel and add a 6.5 (.264 cal) to the action and watch how that rifle responds to those long range shots past 600 yards. I think you will be impressed with the results!:D

The B.C. & S. D. are outstanding for the caliber!!!:cool:

[Evan03]

im very much into anything 25 cal. 6.5 is close.

ive got every intention of building a 25wsm one of these days.

but i could be talked into the 6.5wsm pretty easy i think.


you shooting any of the wsm or saum cals.

i cant stand wins wssm calibers.

thanks for the info

im off to do some reading now, and its not like i havent allready done alot of reading on both the 25 and 6.5wsm

thanks
Evan

[royinidaho]

The column headings don't line up worth a squat. Copied directly from a spread sheet.

Itsa drop chart for the Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 3200 (My varmint/small thin skinned deer load). For large thin skinned deer and elk I move up to the Hornady 140 SPBT.

There are two charts in one. one for 10X and one for 18X. I had a 6.5X20 on it. For the Super Sniper I use just the 10X. The W means wind and is for a 90 degree cross wind @ 10 mph.

Put an 1 gal milk jug at 644 yds and put it exactly centered between the 2nd and 3rd mil dots and hold into the wind just the right amound and you put a hole in it. Sweet. Headed for 700 yds as soon as the weather agrees.

130 Nos BT
Range 10Xmil 18XMIL 10XW 18XW
200 0.3 0.5 0.3 0.5
225 0.2 0.3 0.3 0.6
250 0.1 0.1 0.4 0.6
275 -0.1 -0.1 0.4 0.7
300 -0.2 -0.4 0.4 0.8
325 -0.3 -0.6 0.5 0.8
350 -0.5 -0.9 0.5 0.9
375 -0.6 -1.1 0.6 1.0
400 -0.8 -1.4 0.6 1.0
425 -1.0 -1.6 0.7 1.1
450 -1.1 -1.9 0.7 1.2
475 -1.3 -2.2 0.7 1.3
500 -1.5 -2.5 0.8 1.4
525 -1.6 -2.8 0.8 1.4
550 -1.8 -3.1 0.9 1.5
575 -2.0 -3.4 0.9 1.6
600 -2.2 -3.8 1.0 1.7
625 -2.4 -4.1 1.0 1.8
650 -2.6 -4.5 1.1 1.9
675 -2.8 -4.8 0.7 1.2
700 -3.0 -5.2 1.2 2.0

Just looked at this. It looks for squat. Format is all wrong. But if you glare at it cross-eyed it'll pop out at you:rolleyes:

There is only 1 decimal place. When I get my new rifle I guess I'll have to go out to 2 maybe 3 decimal places:D

[Evan03]

holy batman,

i wonder how far off your spred sheet is from 277 140gr bullets


lookin at it hasnt made any since yet, ill look at it alittle more cross eyed.:eek:

[Evan03]

you have any pics of your 270 with the sniper on it?

[royinidaho]

The 140s are going at just about the same velocity thus are just a little flatter as range gets longer.

The 140s shoot better also. All of my groups in the 1s are with the 140s. The 130s hang around the 4s & 5s and with group size growing out to 500 to 3 and 4" cause I can't read the Dam* WIND!. That is my groups increase in horizonal spread as distance increases. Darn I hate that!

I shoot the 130s as they are a bit more apt to come apart thus not slinging lead all over the place. Plus the recoil is just a bit lighter with the 130s.

The 140s hold together real well and are good up to deer. The biggest thing I intend to shoot with the 130s are canine type animals and maybe a deer if the shot presents itself. Other wise its the 140s for yote on up.

I'll take a pic one of these days and post it. As far as looks go the SS "looks" better than the Cabela's 6.5X20. Plus the ss has the knobs that are exposed and the mirage shade which is a real plus.

[Evan03]

the mirage sahde you mean the sunshade. or are you talking about the honey come filter deal.

i thought this was so that a sniper wasnt spotted from the lenses shineing in the sunlight or headlights or anything.

[royinidaho]

I guess its a sun shade maybe 3 inches long. Makes it quite nice when shooting into the sun.

The mirage shades I use are usually long cardboard tubes that go almost the length of the bbl to keep bbl heat from messing things up.

[Hi Ball]

Evan-03, if your looking at your long range rifle for taking big game animals, then the 300 mag caliber is the one to choose in my humble opinion. I carried this 300 Win mag using those 180 bullets for over 25 years. I even went as far back then to shoot long range against some pretty well made custom rifles and it did a very respectable job.

However, if your looking for a long range Super Star in a caliber, with all the BC and still have decent bullet weight too for match shooting at long range, I will suggest the 6.5/284-Norma. It has been winning long range (1000yards) shooting matches for many years and is very easy on recoil to the body at the bench.

A few months ago, I took a .300WSM model 70 Winchester and screwed on a new 26 inch stainless barrel in a 6.5 (.264 caliber) and don't mind tell you that this little gem really tows the line, when it comes to sending a 140 grain bullet down range or using those 160 grain bullets on big game animals.

The sectional density of the 160 grain bullets is a whopping .328, Holy Cow~!!! If you compare this to the .270 caliber's 150 grain bullets at . 279, you can see real quick which one rules the roost in that area. None the less Evan, for taking of large big game animals at long range, I would still pick up my 300 Winchester magnum using either the 180 or 200 grain bullets and never give it a second thought period. My 180 loads went out that barrel at over 3100fps.

Now way back in the 70's when I did a whole lot more shooting, I used the Sierra Boat Tail in a 190 grain bullet, for long range shooting and the Hornady 190 grain bullet as well. This bullet has a BC of .610 giving it excellent ability to push a bullet down range with less loss of power or trajectory.

[bigbrother]

I don't want to step on anyone's toes here, but you don't need a 300 win mag to kill big game animals at long range. I'm a fellow 6.5 shooter and the proof's in the pudding!http://huntingallover.com/scott/LR212hole1.jpg I like them nasty exits, it makes them a lot easier to find. :D This one was taken at 742 yards (ranged with a WILDE optical rangefinder) on the first shot with a 6.5x284 pushing a 140gAMAX.

[IchWarrior]

I could go for a 6.5x284...

Why I got a .300, I dont know:o

[Evan03]

yeah your all right im kinda stuck on the little 277 slugs but the 2506 has been bringing me smaller yet

i like the wsm case for no reason other than its kinda difrent and cool to me, id love to and will build smaller caliber wsm one of these days more then likly pushn the 257 bullet.

i could stray and end up with 6.5wsm if i keep hearing so much of this good talk of the cal.

but for now i have my 270wsm and 300win to keep me happy at longer ranges and will do everything i want them to do

when, if i get tired of the 277wsm ill screw on difrent barrel pushn a smaller slug from the wsm case.

[royinidaho]

Yo Evan03,

Ya otta quit messini' around with those pecker wood calibers.:rolleyes:

The Ruger #1 in 375 H&H just got here today. Bunches of brass and some 300gr solids.:D Bring on da chucks. I''ll be lookin for some thick skined varmints pretty quick.

She sure is sweet. Too bad I'm skeer'd to shoot the dad burn thing.:confused:

Didja do anything with that drop chart software?

[Evan03]

375 scares me. i wont shoot 338s even if given the opurtunity. i cant start flinchn now.

i never got the drop chart. the attached file in the mail didnt work. i thought i sent you email telling you that. hmmmmmm. i rarely check my email.

im ready for the chucks to.

[Hi Ball]

HOW IN THE HOLY HELL DID WE GET UP ON THE .375H&H???:rolleyes:


I didn't know that Dinosaurs still existed in Idaho! ;)

I have a .375 Weatherby and that rifle stays in the vault nowdays, I gave it to my son and he is going to pick it up later.

I would rather just pick up my .416 and be done with that game of jacks!!!:cool:

Now getting back to the LONG & LONGER range shooting, I believe that that 300 Win mag is a great caliber for this type of shooting but sitting down at the bench with a caliber like the 6.5/.284-Norma is much more fun and that goes for the 6.5/06 as well. They are just a barrel of fun and will knock down big game just as dead as the bigger bores.

[Evan03]

bigbrother

i saw mention of long range big game in an earlier reply, but no example. for some reason ive re read this entirre thread start to finish. lots of good info.

i was reading along and got to your pic, im like hmmmm thats just a deer. not that thats not bigame or anything. not to say it wouldnt do very well on long range elk and bear. pretty sure ive heard you talk of shooting long range bear to. you can place your shot with the best of them out farther than i can see.

but in in my opion as hibal said in his reply how he felt the 300m calibers are some of the best all around big game long range bullet flingers out there. for my benifit well keep game in the 550 and less area and up to the size of moose. with this criteria there isnt anything a well placed shot couldnt do.

but on the other hand i wouldnt mind 6.5/284 that would be one heck of hunting rig. and what i like for deer size and smaller game

Evan


this is kinda where i stray off topick and talk about my dad and this and that and begin to bounce back and forth

i deer hunt alot with my 2506. ive also packed it while haveing a elk tag in my wallet. times like this i get a little leary. and realize i out to be packing something that can do it all (better) when elk and bigger game are possible.

awhile back i got a 300win in ruger M77 just for that purpose, mainly elk. rifle shoots pretty good with factory ammo and a 3-9 leo on top. but you know pretty good is most of the time good enough for most purposes. but i need to get better with it and id like to load up some shells. might try some higher power glass to.

theres a 6-18x40 vxII with target knobs and a sunshade at the local dealer i dont care for knobs the sunshade comes in handy sometimes. what i realy like is the target dot cross hair. it seems to be what i like the best. but i havent put milldots out of my mind. ive almost sent the 3-9 off a few times to premior reticle to do the dot instal.

alot of the elk ive seen taken by my dad have been at 300yds some less some more ive been with him with almost every elk hes killed. in the last 15years. and thats one a year. off hand i can think of twice he didnt fill his tag. rifle he uses is a rem 700 3006.

he isnt gadget guy he has no use for range finder. hes got a 3-9 leo only(couldnt stand what he had) because i bought if for him. we havent ever had to track an animal of his very far. i can think of a few times where we went a few hundred yards to find a dead dear or elk.

at times i almost feel bad about even haveing a 300win(kindda going against the grain). he knows he doesnt need a mag to kill, i know i dont either. i took alot of pride in takeing my first bull elk with my 270win he gave me.

the 300win is versatile and wanted not needed. ive got rifles that will do what it will but not with anywhere near as much punch ounce we start getn into elk terriotory.


so im off to punch some paper with the 300 now that im in the mood

[royinidaho]

I'll chew the fat with ya for a bit.

Whatcha watering w/a Pete?

Its a heck of a thing when a rest that expensive rocks and rolls and can be replaced for about 50 bucks.

You did the right thing to hold off on the shot for 2 reasons. 1) No sense in training the yote and 2) the 25 probably would have the umph to reach the north end from the south end. ;)

I shot a moose with a 270, 130 gr Sierra @ about 60 yds broad side. Perfect heart shot. Moose was standing @ a bad angle then took 2 steps and gave me a nice broadside exposure. Saw the bullet hit going in and saw dust on the side hill showing that it penetrated all the way through.

The moose didn't miss a stride. He just kept walking. Walked up hill 40 yds or so and just stood there for a long time.

He stood there long enough for me to get my rope from the saddle and get ready to put a loop around his bull winkle horns and tie him to a quakie.

He finally fell, rolled down to where I first hit him then got back up. I put another round through both shoulders @ the joint. Went through both shoulder blades about 2" behind the joint. That put him down. By the time I got there with my rope he was a gonner.

For elk I've moved up to a 375 H&H Ruger #1. I actually moved up to a Rem 700 in 338 Win but this 375 is so much nicer to shoot that it's become my number 1 weapon.

I'm giving my 270 kinda custom to my son and I'll get a super longrange 270 cal w/30" bbl for deer. I have something all picked out, Its more or less a 300 RUM necked down to .277. Pushes the 130/140 gr bullets @ like 3700 and the 170 at 3400. Should be good for closer to 1000 but I'm thinking 7/750 or whatever shot presents itself.

The 270 win w/the 140 gr bullet is maxed out @ maybe 750. Its a pure Right handed rifle and I've become a left hander so rather than restock it I'll just give it to my boy.

That way he won't have to wait till I kick the bucket to get it and I can see him do some things with its.

See ya

[bigbrother]

Evan, I haven't had the opportunity to shoot an elk with the 6.5 yet. Someday I will. My gunsmith has personally taken elk to 2200 yds with a .338-375 R&R and one at 1450 with a 6.5 Gibbs. Now, I'm within 150fps of what he was shooting the gibbs at so I have no fear in shooting an elk to my effective range with the gun. I know a 140g bullet through the lungs will do the job.

That being said, there is a noticable difference in impact energy when shooting Olspark's 300Tomahawk.;)

[Evan03]

bigbrother.

i thought for sure you were gona say the some kinda 50 call at 2200. my eyes grew as i kept reading. i cant imagine shooting at 1000yds.

what kinda set is on the 338-375 R&R ? what glass and rifle. also do you know the specs on it.

i wasnt by any means putn down the 6.5 cals. they are truly good calibers. and will take elk size game just as well as the 270 . id defeinalty someday like to have one, but i dont think its gona be in a wildcat case. well errrr the 6.5/06 would tickly my fancy.

i reload but i dont like the process of reloading, so i rarely do it. ill bang out a pile of ammo shoot it all up then start buying factory ammo that shoots just as good.

thats kinda why im afraid to have wildcat caliber


Evan

[bigbrother]

The 338-375R&R is a wildcat based on the .375 H&H case blown out and necked down...it would be similar to a 338 STW if you will. Ray Romain (gunsmith) developed it for 1000yd bench rest shooting. I believe his gun wears a 34" barrel and he shoots an old Baush & Lomb 24 or 36x target scope on it. Total gun weight is right around 60lbs! They hunt every year in Colorado and take Elk from 600 yds out with a variety of guns. He was shooting a 250g SMK out of it.

More amazing is the fact that he shot a mule deer two years ago with the same gun at over 1800 yds (aka 1 mile)! They rented horses and it took them 4 hours to get to it.

Oddly enough he now shoots a 6.5x284 at the bench. The high b.c. 6.5 bullets are hard to beat unless your shooting a 240g 30cal or a 300g 338cal Match King. At the same velocity, with the same bc, they will have the same drift and trajectory. Of course with the bigger bullets you do have more energy. (the mule deer Ray shot, dropped in it's tracks due to a shoulder shot...at a mile!) The 6.5 is a lot of fun to shoot because it's super accurate. If you want some real horsepower in a 6.5, look to the 6.5x300 Weatherby. A lot of guys still use it for long range hunting because they can drive the bullets to their integrity limit. It's not seen too much in benchrest use any more because it give somewhat irratic results due to the big case and amount of temp. sensitive powder you have in it.

My next gun will probably be a 338-300Tomahawk so I can shoot those nasty 300g Match Kings. I'm really wanting a heavy gun but truth is, my 6.5 will reach anything I can find out here in Pennsylvania.:rolleyes:

[royinidaho]

Hi Guys,

The smith that put the last bbl on my 270 shoots nothing but the 6.5-06 w/120 gr bullets of some brand. Has taken plenty of elk at many distances though not long by ya'lls stds. Last cow taken was @ 420.

He took it to africa for a plains hunt. Don't know the particulars but he was satisfied w/performance.

Looks like my next rifle w/be a 270-300RUMw/30" bbl/brake etc. Should end up weighing about 9+ lbs. 170gr bullet @ 3400. 140 gr bullet @ 3700. Will use the 375 for elk and the 270 LR for mulies way out there.....

[Evan03]

Bigbrother.

come out west. ill get you lined up on some long mile long shots or alittle closer if you like. actualy maybe we could shoot antelope from out back door and just have a blast.

now that would be cool:D

Evan