Tikka T3 and Sako recall! Catastrophic failures!

[MarkL]

Follow the link below for some scary pictures of a blown-up rifle and more information about the recall. I called the 1-800 number given there and got a recording saying (more or less) "if you received a Tikka rifle after Feb. 2004, leave your serial number and phone number and we will get back to you." This link also contains a range of serial numbers, but I don't know if it's accurate. My rifle falls in the range. I left a message and sent an email.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rifles-kb.html

[Mike Moss]

Good luck Mark. At least you were not injured.

So far there is no specific information as to the cause of the blowups. The pictures are really scary however.

I would sell the rifle myself now so that you can forget about it. I would inform the buyer of the situation in writing and keep a copy of the noted receipt.

[trex]

No way I'd sell that gun to someone knowing it very well could kill them!!!

[fabsroman]

You had better have the person you are selling that rifle to sign a release for you. Everybody in the chain of sale is responsible for personal injury from a manufacturing defect, but there might be an exception for a consumer to consumer sale. Nonetheless, I would have the release signed to be on the safe side. The last thing you want to do is to have to hire an attorney to represent you in something like this that goes to trial. Wouldn't be worth the money you get from the gun. Then again, even with a signed release, you might still have to hire an attorney to file a Motion to Dismiss. Quite honestly, I think I would wait until Beretta/Sako/Tikka fix the thing and then sell it, but still have the person sign a release and keep all the paperwork.

[MarkL]

I have no intention of selling the gun. I would never put someone at risk, even if they were willing to sign a release. Besides, I can't imagine how someone would be dumb enough to buy it in the first place if they really knew what they were buying.

I still haven't heard back from Beretta. Maybe they're only returning calls to folks who have an affected gun. I'm really displeased with the way they're handling this issue. Why aren't they more up front about it? Why don't they just publish a list of serial numbers somewhere, or have a feature on their web site where you can type in a serial number and get an answer?

Actually, I seem to be having a run of bad luck lately. Let's see...

1) I ordered an ATV part from a legitimate seller on ebay. He sent the wrong part and won't make it right. Told me to re-sell it on ebay! The problem with that is I don't know what make/model it fits, just what it doesn't fit.

2) Ordered an item from onlinemetals.com at least two weeks ago. They promise next day shipping, but it hasn't shipped yet.

3) Sent a TIVO to be repaired, never to be heard of again.

[fabsroman]

On small ticket items, it is almost like buyer beware again with the amount of mail order and internet sales. Tough to get a judgment against a seller in your state and then have another attorney enforce it in another state. Heck, it is even tough for me. Such is the risk we take with these types of purchases.

Beretta did right by me regarding a 682 GoldE o/u shotgun, but it did take them a while (i.e., several months and two attempts). Hang in there and I am sure they will get back to you with an answer. I can only imagine how swamped their customer service department is with such a recall.

[stout shooter]

Thanks Mark

with the holiday season and the completion of college i have not had time to come and visit the site that much, but i saw the post and i also have a tikka T3 in the range of the problem child.

i will be calling

SS

[skb2706]

Its amazing to me that the technology for making barrels, actions and recievers that can handle high pressure rounds has been around for over hundred years. .........sometimes you just can't step outside the box.....so to speak.

[MarkL]

From what I've read on another forum, I get the impression that stainless is a tricky material to make guns from. The alloy and heat-treating has to be just right. Not as forgiving as regular steel. On the other hand, there are millions of stainless guns in the world that don't blow up.

I really believe the way Beretta/Sako/Tikka is handling this is criminal. People are being maimed (e.g. a boy in Sweden lost a thumb), yet Beretta et. al. is trying to keep the whole thing low-profile. If this had happened to Ruger, there would be ads in all the gun rags and a prominent mention on the web site. Beretta, on the other hand, acknowledges there is a recall on their phone message, but won't return calls or emails or really do anything proactive to warn their customers who are at risk. They should have a list of serial numbers on their web site or an interface where you could type in your serial number and get an answer. Instead, I'm stuck with a gun I'm afraid to shoot. My serial number is about 200 numbers away from one of the blown-up guns. Even if they call me and tell me the gun is safe, I'll always have doubts.

I will never buy another Beretta/Sako/Tikka product again. Not because they sold a few defective rifles, but because of the way they are mishandling the situation. I can point you to threads on other forms where a lot of other people feel the same way. Too bad for B/S/T. They are really screwing this up.

[Classicvette63]

The blueprint for how to successfully deal with a bad product situation is out there, but some companies just refuse to deal with it. When tylenol had some poisoned capsules, it could have been devastating, but they aggresively and promptly dealt with the situation and not only have maintained market share but actually increased it. There is no excuse for guns that go boom. And for them to sit on their hands is unpardonable.

[fabsroman]

Okay, now lets look at a couple of distinguishing factors between the Tylenol problem and this problem that Beretta/Sako/Tikka is dealing with.

Yes, Tylenol dealt with the problem by pulling all their product off the shelves and beginning the use of tamper proof bottle seals. Now, you see those seals on almost every bottle of any kind. Tylenol did not recall all the Tylenol bottles that were in peoples medicine cabinets and issue refunds for them. However, people were just fine with throwing these bottles of Tylenol into the trash and going out and buying the new tamper proof bottles because the cost of the item was so small (i.e., the consumer could afford to eat some of the cost).

For Beretta to do the same thing as Tylenol would be extremely costly. Of course, I do not know whether or not Beretta recalled all the latest production run rifles or not and fixed the problem at that end. However, for Beretta to recall ALL the Sako/Tikka rifles out there would be rather tough and extremely expensive. So, they probably have to try and figure out exactly what the problem is and determine if they can isolate the problem to a specific run of guns or whether it is actually a design defect in some way. Looking at the two or three pictures of the guns on the website link has me puzzled. It is just tough to imagine so many pieces of a gun failing (e.g., the barrel chamber, barrel, and receiver and being torn apart like that, but I guess anything is possible).

I just might have to call the customer service rep I was dealing with over there and ask him if he knows anything about this because I haven't been doing enough digging of my own. If I find some time on my hands Friday I will give him a call and see if he can address this thread or have somebody else address it.

Have you guys heard about Dodge Dakotas and Durangos from 2001 to 2004? The front wheel actually falls off those trucks and Dodge will not recall them even though the FTA has asked them to. The wheel falls off because of abnormal upper ball joint wear which causes the joint to fail and the truck to collapse on the wheel. Dodge's position on it is that the abnormal upper ball joint wear will usually be caught by the mechanic if regular maintenance is performed on the truck. However, even if it isn't caught by the mechanic, most failures will happen during low speed turns. Well, I would hate to be the guy making a left turn in front of traffic, have my front wheel fall off, and then end up broadsided/T-boned by an oncoming bus.

Thing is, Dodge had its statisticians come in and run the numbers and it turned out to be more costly to recall all the trucks than to settle and/or defend the number of personal injury accident claims that will actually be brought. It is terrible that companies do stuff like this, but they all do. I just wish it came back to bite the CEO's where it hurts (i.e., their families). However, I can bet that no Dodge CEO family member is driving a 2001-2004 Durango or Dakota and no Ford CEO family member is driving an Explorer with Firestone tires on it, and I love Ford.

[MOSSMAN]

Well I have one solution for this issue with the sako. Don't buy the product untill the company stands behind it. Remeber the Ford Pinto it was way before my teenage years however it was basicly a ford write off. Companies respond big time to quality control or in this case a deffective product when consumers or potential buyers avoid purchasing their product. I tell you what ever since that firestone incident a few years back when it came time to get new tires on the truck a set of firestone tires where tempting because in my area you could by two and get two free they were my last option when shoping around. It's shocking to read this topic because I know Beretta builds a quality product.

[MarkL]

I think it's pretty clear that Beretta/Sako/Tikka knows at least some of the serial numbers that are defective. They should publish those numbers on their website, place announcements in gun magazines, have dealers put up fliers, etc. That wouldn't cost much, and it would probably prevent some injuries (and lawsuits). I believe the reason they don't do that is because it means publicly admitting the problem.

The problem has been know since, I believe, October 2004 and Beretta has done little to address it. That means people have been hunting and practicing with those guns during prime hunting season. I fired my gun at least twice during December. Once with my 8 year old son by my side.

Even if Beretta is unwilling to repair or replace the guns or refund the price, they should tell their customers (based on serial number) if

a) the gun is safe
b) the gun is unsafe
c) it's unknown so don't fire it until we figure it out

In case anybody hasn't bothered to read the threads on the other forums, the guns are not blowing up on the first round fired. I remember one was reported to blow on the 19th round and another after "about two and a half boxes".

[MarkL]

Beretta just called me and informed me that my rifle is not affected. I asked if I could get it in writing and they said yes and took my address. I'm feeling a little better about my own situation, but there must be lots of people who don't know about the recall because they don't read huntchat, rec.guns, etc. Believe it or not, not everybody is an Internet junkie.

[Classicvette63]

Fabs, my point of the tylenol recall was that they were proactive, not dragging their feet, deny it all the way reactive like tikka. Tylenol spent major bucks on pulling existing product off the shelves, millions of bottles worth. How many rifles could be affected? A few thousand? Either way cost shouldn't matter when a product has a very real potential to injure, maim, blind or kill the user. Once a company gets a bad rep, it is hard to overcome especially in the firearm world where impressions die hard. It seems like companies don't want to do the right thing until legally or finacially compelled to do so. And that is most likely going to happen in this case.

[razmuz]

If these rifles are blowing why haven't the Shootings magazines addressed the matter?

[fabsroman]

That is a good point. About the only magazines I get are Ducks Unlimited and American Hunter, and they are both a result of my membership to the organizations. I also get Sporting Clays magazine as a paid subscription. Ducks Unlimited and Sporting Clays probably wouldn't address exploding rifles. Sad thing is that I rarely have time to read any of them, so I don't know if this has been addressed in the shooting magazines or not.

Has anybody out there seen this issue addressed by the shooting magazines? I know I saw a lot of front page articles regarding the Tikka T3 and I actually read a couple of those articles. All they had to say about the rifle was how great it was. Granted, this was when the rifle first came out several years ago.

[MOSSMAN]

raz,

Well I have one reason shooting & hunting magazines are not investigating this matter. Its very simple, they got bills to pay too, and by writing an article on rifles blowing up could effect advertisement sales.

[MarkL]

Exactly. Those magazines carry a lot of Beretta/Sako/Tikka ads. American Handgunner is the only one I ever heard of with the balls to piss off a major advertiser (Glock in their case). I doubt they'd do it again.

If you don't think the blowups are real, why do you think Beretta is recalling the guns? If you don't think Beretta is recalling the guns, dial up that toll free number and listen carefully to the recorded greeting.

[fabsroman]

I am not disagreeing that these guns blow up, I am just wondering why the magazines haven't said anything about it. I wonder if magazines make more money off of advertisements or from their cover price?

[Jack]

Does anyone know how many guns have actually blown up- 1 obviously- but are there any more?
Or are the guns being recalled because the maker thinks they might?
Recalls are fairly common , maybe not worthy of a big article/to do, blow ups are something else entirely....

[MarkL]

I think there have been about 5 blow-ups.

[MOSSMAN]

Well with that stated 5 Tikas T3/Sako blow ups, to me that’s too common especially for that of a modern day firearm! I don't blame the Magazine publishers for not writing articles because our life style of sportsmen does not cater to that of cutthroat type news reporting/article writing. Hunting and Gun Magazines are probably waiting for Berretta to give an official statement and then let it be at that. Just a thought on this issue we all know that Berretta makes fine firearms however it's possible for a reputable brand to put out a lemon or gremlin every now and then.