Let's stir the hunting with a .410 pot again

[DaMadman]

Read a really interesting article in Buckmasters Gun Hunter magazine last night. I must admit that I read most of it and skimmed the rest but it was all about a couple guys that Turkey hunt with .410 and have been getting a bunch of crap about it.
They have been told it is unethical to use such a small caliber on a turkey so on and so on.

One of the guys limits his shots to 35 yards (which seems to me to be a reach for a .410 on turkey) but the other guy limits his shots to 25 yards and both claim to never have lost a bird, and get good clean kills by limiting theirselve to this range. I think one was using 3 inch shells and the other 2-1/2

Each state that they have patterned their guns out to the maximum range they will shoot and get about a dozen pellets in the kill zone on a paper turkey target consistently.

These guys are trying to get manufacturers to load "Turkey" loads for the .410 and trying to find a .410 shotgun that can be set up as a "Turkey" gun. (adjustable fiber optic sites, shorter barrel, sling swivels and such) well nobody is making a .410 "turkey" Gun.

So Just opinions here guys lets find out how you feel about turkey hunting with a .410.

Is it unethical to use a small bore shotgun like a .410 if the hunter limits his maximum shooting distance to a range he knows he can make a clean kill? Would it be unethical for a maufacturer to market a .410 shotgun that is all setup with the "Turkey Gun" sights and short barrel and sling" Would it be unethical for remington or winchester to market a 3 in "Turkey Load" in .410?

Whataya think?

If you were into hunting Turkeys purely for the challenge of doing it would you use a caliber as small as a .410?

I think the guys in the article have just been hunting for so long and hunt so much that they decided, it would be more sporting and more chalenging for them, to use a smaller caliber and only shoot the turkeys that they can get within range. In essence it is all about the challenge of getting the Turkey close enough to be within range of the .410 instead of shooting the bird out a 50 yards with a 2 oz 10 guage turkey load they are making things more interesting and challenging by having to call them in to the 25 - 35 yard range to get a kill shot

Whataya think?

[M.T. Pockets]

Too small for my comfort level. If these two guys can do it, good for them. I don't doubt a responsible, well practiced hunter with good shot selection and patience can do it if they want to. Most hunters (including myself) would be better served by at least a 20 guage. Range estimation is too difficult and the difference between 25 yards and 30 yards could mean the difference between an adequate and inadequate pattern.

Factory loads promoting hunting turkeys with a .410 would be like advertising a VW bug to pull a horse trailer.

If you need a challenge, try hunting them with a rifle instead. I know it's legal in some states. My favorite writer, G. Sitton, used to write about hunting Turkeys with a small centerfire rifle.

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. I respect the game I'm hunting and want to make sure I do the best job I can for a clean, efficient kill.

[trex]

I dont see a problem at all. They stated that they are getting a dozen hits in the kill zone at their maximum ranges. A dozen hits in the kill zone is a dead turkey no matter if it's an 8 guage or a .410. Energy isn't an issue as a load of #7 1/2 or 6's is leaving the barrel probably around 1200 or so fps.

[DaMadman]

BTW One guy was using #6 shot and I don't remember what the other guy was using but I think it was #6 shot too.


It was also stated in the article that testing on preserve raised birds made a pretty strong case that it took at least 6, #6 shot in the head to make a clean kill on an average turkey, (shot from a .410

[gspsonny03]

I personally wouldn't do it, but if someone is comfortable enough with their shooting ability to do it, than more power to them. I'm not patience enough to have them come in that extra 5 yards when I have a good shot further out. That 5 yards could make a big difference. But as M.T. said, if you want a challenge try a rifle. Wyoming in one state you can do that in. You can use anything bigger than a 22lr. I seen a guy shoot one with a 30.06. He didn't have to gut it, I'll say that much. I thought it was pretty much a waste of bullet and bird. I have hunted them with a 22.250. That don't work to bad if you place your shot right. I do like shotgunning a whole lot better.

[Jack]

I think I'd like to see the pattern boards from the guns and loads those folks are using.
I'm sceptical....

[Dom]

Might be ok for a small percentage of hunters who have taken the time to pattern and know their abilities and limit, but I wouldn't want to see the .410 manufactured and produced for the market where you have some not so knowledgeable folks hunting turkeys with them. Just not intended for that purpose. I wonder if any states list a shotgun guage minimum for hunting wild turkeys? Maybe they better start, JMO Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[fabsroman]

I agree with the rest of the guys here. The .410 is not the ideal gun for turkey hunting, and especially not the gun to introduce somebody to turkey hunting, or hunting for that matter.

If you really want a challenge, use a bow to hunt turkey. Plenty of people do it and the turkeys have to almost on top of you. Me, I don't think I would be able to have the patience to hunt them with a bow or a .410. Plus, I am the kind of person that wants every advantage that I can legally get. I hunt deer with a rifle in rifle zones, slug guns in slug zones, and bows when they are the only thing allowed.

The only way I would hunt turkeys with a .410 is if it was the only gun I had and the only shells I had.

I would also like to see these guys pattern their guns in front of me. I would really like to see them put 12 pellets in the kill zone consistantly. Also, if they say they never lost a bird, then they haven't been hunting enough of them. Nobody is perfect given enough chances to screw up.

[popplecop]

I am an advid turkey hunter first of all. I like some of the above posts would like to see the patterning targets. I have a very tight patterning .410 and it is a 20 yard turkey at the most, I have spent alot of time at the patterning boards over the last 20+ years with 10 through 28 gas, and the 410 shooting the same load at least on 3 targets. One target isn't the answer in my opinon. I know several people who have successfully killed turkeys with the .410 within 20 yards.

[skeet]

Well guys I wouldn't pick the 410 as the ultimate turkey gun but a 25 yd turkey will be just as dead with a 410 as it would be if it were a 10 ga. It's probably ok for some guys that know their guns. but it isn't a gauge for everyone. Any argument on these pages is self defeating...Like arguing with an anti gun person...Ya can't change their minds. I have killed quite a few ducks with a 410(and a 28 ga) and about a dozen geese...and it did just fine on them...and they were flying

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

Were you using the .410 on waterfowl as an amateur or was this after you won a couple state skeet shooting championships? If you were using it as a kid, you have some really natural ability. I started off using a .410 when I was in second and third grade, but I couldn't hit anything with it. I did kill a single dove with it though. Graduated to the 20 ga. the next year and really didn't have the opportunity to kill much with it because I didn't do much dove hunting with it. The next year I was using a 12 ga. and I was killing birds like crazy. Obviously, some of it came from experience (i.e., all the misses), but I think the right gun can help the novice shooter.

[skeet]

Fabs that's all I am is an amateur. Actually I used to shoot quite a bit..pigeons doves ducks geese quail blackbirds...anything that flew.. For about 8 yrs straight I shot more than 50,000 shells a year. When it came to hunting I shot what I brung if you know what I mean. Always had a gun or two with me...not always the shells for them..Most of the ducks I shot(with the 410) were wood ducks in the woods ponds. Short ranges anyway. 30 yds was a long shot so a 410 would work as would the 28. Used M-12 Winchesters and M-42 in the 410. Teal and the 28 ga go together like bacon and eggs. Where we shoot teal a shot of 20 yds would be long... many are in 20 ft ranges. The few times i shot gese with a 410 we were shoting the pond that I still shoot. Ranges were short(still are) most of the time so it really didn't matter what we used. This was lead shot days too understand. Tried the 410 on divers one time...It just wouldn't work as the shots were a bit longer....and the ducks were really moving. I crippled a couple(they were bagged by my fellow hunters) but the 410 really worked on any cripples we had. 20 yd head shots were deadly. Used 5's most of the time in the 410 on larger birds. Understand now these guys that we were talking about in the beginning of this thread were shooting called, standing Turkeys(I assume) in the head, 30 yds with 5's or 6's with a full choke will kill a turkey dead dead dead. That should be as far as anyone should shoot the 410...even at doves. BTW I hunt with a guy that shoots the 410 at doves...and it is an unusual day when he doesn't shoot a limit in under 20 shells(410 now). Needless to say I don't stand close to him in a dove field. I like to shoot too.:D Oh and he doesn't do it for cheap thrills and to impress anyone.. The 12 or 20 just isn't any sport for him...oh and he hates recoil!!

[DaMadman]

I personally love to see the opinions on this subject. They vary so widely it really can be interesting

Lots of people that are totally for throwing a .410 in the river and say it is a no good gun, while others think it is the "bees knees"

Personally I like the .410 I think as long as you stay within the range limit the small bore produces a nice tight patter and it is a great little shotgun to start kids hunting with.

I killed quite a few squirrels with the .410 bolt action that my dad had when I was 6 or 7 years old. Then I got a .410 of my own and killed a a lot more squirrels with it. I am definetly more accurate with m break action single shot than I ever was with Dads Bolt action from Western Auto

I like to try to put the majority of the pellets in the head of the squirrel and you just cant do that with the bigger gauges.

Also think it is a great rabbit gun.

Turkeys???? They are some tough birds and I am not that patient so I probably would be the prime candidate to turkey hunt with one either, I probably wouldn't shoot past my range limit but I would be so frustrated by the time the turkey got close enough it just wouldn't be a fun thing to do.

If I think about it the next time I go to the range I am going to take my .410 and a few turkey head targets and pattern some loads just for curiousity. I would almost bet that I could get 10 - 12 pellets in the head area up to 30 yards with my .410 and the shells I use the most. Of course I don't know for sure but I think there is a good chance. Maye I'll give it a try this weekend and post the results.

BTW None of this is going to make any difference in whether I hunt turkeys with a .410 or not becaus I have never Turkey Hunted and probably won't anytime soon and If I do it will be with my 870 in 12 gauge.
I just thought it was a interesting article and I know the subject brings up lots of opinions here at huntchat. So I posted it.

Thank for all the opinions guys, it's an interesting topic to me

[skeet]

BTW when I was shooting all that much I seemed to be reloading all the time. All I had as spare time anyway. My parents hardly even saw me. I think my mother preferred it that way.hehehehe I worked on a farm and when we got done cultivating(for the day) we were off and gone shooting. The farmer was like a father to me(actually better). He paid for most of the reloading supplies and I loaded shells for us. 8-9 boxes an hour on a Mec 600 until I got a P-W 800 progressive. I could do 750 shells an hour on that thing. That is what got me into selling shooting supplies etc. Everybody wanted my loader more than I did so I started selling them. To this day.:D :D

[Skinny Shooter]

A side by side in .410 would be great for bunnies. :p

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by Skinny Shooter
A side by side in .410 would be great for bunnies. :p

I could not agree more. But a lot of folks would disagree very strongly

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

8-9 boxes an hour on a Mec 600 is more impressive than the guy shooting doves with a .410 and limiting within 20 shells. Well, almost. Quite honestly, I don't mind standing next to guys like that because they are done with their limit so quickly that I can actually shoot mine without having to shoot at birds that are darting all over God's creation because 6 people tried to tag them on the way in.


DaMadman,

Imagine shooting those little targets at the sporting clays tournament with a .410. Most people couldn't break them with a 12 ga. full choke, including you, and they are about the size of a turkey head. Okay, I guess they were on edge and they were moving directly away from us, but the 12 ga. pattern wasn't all too good for that one either. I wish I had a 10 ga. for those.

[skeet]

A 410 for wabbits is the cat's meow...and what i use for those wascally wabbits all the time. I have an ol Stevens 311 in 410..opened to light mod/ light mod. It's a weal wabbit slayer!! And I don't have to worry about scwatching up the M-42. In fact we be going next week for a day or two. Have 5 farms to hunt before the foxes get 'em all. 8 boxes an hour on a 600 Jr is not too hard to do. I was loading all the time too...remember. Just have to lay out all the stuff in advance. The 410 is a fun gun fer skwerls too. :D

[DaMadman]

Well I did part of what I said I was going to do this weekend.

I took a remington Turkey head target to the range and shot it at 25 yards. All I had in the way of shells were some
3 inch Remington express #4 Well at 25 yards there were a few more than a dozen pellets in the head.

Our phone line was out this weekend so I couldn't post the target, but I will scan it in and post it for those interested.

I really wish that I had a few of the 2-1/2, #6 shot that I occasionally use for trap. I think they would have done real well also, the only other shell I had were some #9 shot and some russian #3 and they patterned terrible, but the #4 express wopuld have killed the turkey very dead from 25 yards

[jdwc9]

www.airgunhunters.com those guys shoot them with their pellet guns.
410 fine just limit your shots

[TKO]

I think a .410 has plenty of pop at 25-30 yards to kill a turkey. Sounds like these two guys have been doing it with success. I think it maybe a option for older hunters to continue hunting after the recoil of the larger gauges becomes a problem, or for the hunter who just likes a differant challenge.

I just picked up a .410 for Pheasant hunting and love it.