Gun Insurance?

[Mil Dot]

What's your feelings? At the first of the year the annual insurance check up takes place. In reviewing my insurance I could use additional but in talkiing with my agent after a certain amount they require serial #s and descriptions. What to do buy a great safe ... fore go the insurance ... safe + insurance ... insurance and don't get paranoid about folks looking over your shoulder( yes they're locked down). Needin' abit of input.

[Steverino]

I went though the same thing as you MilDot, a couple of years ago. Even after acquiring a safe, I decided that I had too much in the safe not to insure it against loss. Now, my collection is relatively modest- a couple of semi's, revolvers, shotguns, and rifles (nothing collectible, these are all hunting/shooting tools) It doesn't take much to easily exceed the standard homeowners policy-especially if you hunt.

I didn't particularly like furnishing all of my firearm data but decided that ultimately, it protected me from loss. When I review my homeowners, auto, etc. with my fiance this Spring, I will check out the NRA insurance. I recall reading that it was not obtrusive. I don't consider myself paranoid but I don't like being on any potential type of serialization list that could be utilzed at a later time for a round-up. Sadly, history does repeat itself.:(

[M.T. Pockets]

My insurance guy is also a hunting buddy and I grilled him on this. He told me how it worked and showed me in writing in the policy the coverage that applies for guns.

The only limitation on guns was for theft losses. They're capped at $2,000. There is no limitation for other types of losses such as Fire & Wind, meaning that you can include them in your personal property coverage until the entire limit of coverage is used up.

He explained that there were two ways I could increase this. The first was to schedule the guns specifically for an extra premium, this would require serial numbers and values. I understood this would provide broader coverage for freak accidents and at a lower deductible and be seperate from the $2,000 theft limitation, and would be on top of any other personal property coverage.

He said I could also just increase the theft limitation from $2,000 to whatever I wanted. This wouldn't require a serial number for value, but would also be an additional premium. It wouldn't increase the overall property coverage, just the theft limit on guns.

I know NRA membership provides some coverage, I'm not sure what - I renew in March and will check into it more then.

Also, as far as serial numbers go. I don't like giving them out, or any other information as far as that goes. But don't you think that if anyone was looking for our guns there would be more effective ways than digging through insurance records, such as sales records at sporting goods stores, manufacturer warranty cards, hunting license applications and even a list of NRA members ? I don't mean to be paranoid, but I think there are a lot of places the gun grabbers would look before insurance companies.

[fabsroman]

I have been thinking about getting insurance for my firearms, even though I do have a fireproof gun safe over my parents that I keep them in and they are also "insured" through H&K when they are at my place. I just moved into the new place 5 months ago and haven't really transferred any of the guns here other than my H&K handgun. However, I have been thinking about buying a gun safe for this place too, albeit a little smaller of one than I have at my parents' place. My problem is where I will keep it in my townhouse. There just isn't a lot of room other than in the garage and I hate the fact that everybody can look into my garage as it is.

So, insurance might be my only alternative while I am living here. Of course, I could always buy a really fancy safe and just stick it in the living/dining room.

As far as privacy is concerned, I seriously doubt that the gov't will be looking to insurance companies for the info. When we buy guns, their serial numbers are registered as it is. Since mine are almost all new guns, the gov't already knows what I have except for a couple of exceptions. So, I'm not too worried about getting insurance and providing serial numbers. Plus, if they truly do outlaw firearms, I probably wouldn't try to keep mine, even though I would be really pissed off.

[Jack]

Any firearm that you have purchased from a store since 1968, the serial #'s already in the system.
Also true if you had your firearm worked on by a gunsmith- they have to record the serial #'s of the firearms they work on.

[Varmint Hunter]

I'm not a big fan of riders on my insurance policy. I've been there and take a dim view of their value. I originally started with riders which covered my wife's jewely. All the jewely needs to be professionally appraised first or you may never be able to substantiate their value in the event of a loss. Any custom rifle or any rifle with any custom work will also require some documentation as to its current value.

The real problem is that the insurance premium is based on the total value of the insured property. A 10% annual premium is not all that unusual. Given that figure, you would be paying for your firearms TWICE in the first ten years. To make paying this premium a logical decision you would have to anticipate that your total collection would be stolen MORE than once every 10 years.:(

Even if you only paid 8%, you still would suffer the same dilemma, however you would repay for your firearms every 12 years instead of every 10 years.

I would much rather put the insurance premium money into a quality gun safe. Buy a large one so that you have plenty of room for some jewelery, documents or whatever other new purchases you may make. :D

Just my 2 cents - VH

[Steverino]

Based upon my current rider premium that is attached to my main home owner's policy and based upon the current value of my firearm collection, I will essentially be spending the value of my collection in about 50 years of the rider premium. This is for the replacement value option.

Regardless of policy rider, the burden of proof for the initial purchase, and any gunsmith service and upgrades rest with the insured. It is usually recommended that receipts, photos, etc. be kept in a separate storage location. I am personally not aware of any appraisels being necessary to insure most firearms.(collectibles, I suppose may fall into a different category altogether based upon their value)

As others here have already posted, it's a personal decision that each owner has to make. The advice that I can give is that it pays to shop around for insurance and to really read all of the fine print-(especially the Loss clauses)

[fabsroman]

I got a rider on on my fiance's engagement ring and I think the percentage was a little less than 1%, so that made complete sense to insure.

As far as the gun safe goes for my new place, I am going to buy one for the main purpose of storing my clients' special documents (e.g., wills) and I am going to write the entire safe off for income tax purpose. I think I am going to get one of the large ones and just keep it in the garage. I'll just have to make sure that it isn't easily visible. As far as the insurance goes, I still haven't made a decision about it.

[Tall Shadow]

Originally posted by fabsroman
I got a rider on on my fiance's engagement ring and I think the percentage was a little less than 1%, so that made complete sense to insure.

As far as the gun safe goes for my new place, I am going to buy one for the main purpose of storing my clients' special documents (e.g., wills) and I am going to write the entire safe off for income tax purpose. I think I am going to get one of the large ones and just keep it in the garage. I'll just have to make sure that it isn't easily visible. As far as the insurance goes, I still haven't made a decision about it.

After addressing the same trouble as some of you here, IE: having to place a gun safe in a somewhat visible location, a garage. I came up with a good solution.

Build an enclosing cabinet that surrounds the safe, making it "Stand out" less. Build it somewhat crudely, to look like a old storage cabinet. Also only open or use said safe/cabinet behind closed doors.

While this won't keep everyone out, it will keep it away from "prying eyes". I feel that this is where most of Our worries are about anyway.


Tall Shadow

[Schutzen]

My perspective is a little different. I have already been through a house fire(total burn out) and the resulting insurance battles. Your very best insurance is a HIGH QUALITY gun safe with a very good fire rating. Almost any safe will withstand the normal burgler, but a dedicated professional can defeat any safe. My safe protected the guns that were in it. The three that I had out of the safe were covered by the regular NRA Members insurance up to the value of the policy. The remaining value of those guns was covered by my home owners insurance. Both insurance companies were quite understanding about the lack of serial numbers, but I did have pictures of the destroyed firearms (after the fire) and my firearms were not collector pieces. I would caution everyone to keep a second copy of your serial number list in your safe deposit box. My list was destroyed by the fire. Yes it was in a "fire proof" lock box, but it was not in my gun safe. In todays litigiouis climate, a gun safe is your best insurance.

[tooldummy]

I priced gun safes, but ended up buying insurance instead. I don't mind my insurance company having the serial numbers on file. If there stolen, I want to be able to come up with them to be able to report them stolen anyway.

[Varmint Hunter]

If I could get firearm insurance riders for 1% I would buy it even if I did have a quality safe. Even 5% wouldn't be too bad.

I must be living in the world of high premiums. :rolleyes:

Like any other insurance you have to weigh risk againt cost. The cost here was way out of line.

VH

[fabsroman]

Varmint Hunter,

I don't know what the percentage rate is for firearms, I just know that it was less than 1% for jewelry on my policy.

[Varmint Hunter]

Fabs,

The jewelry rider was about 10% so I bought a 2' x2' used Diebold safe instead. It easily rolls into the closet but is very heavy. It can be bolted to the floor and wall if necessary. It is more than enough for jewelry, documents and a few handguns.

Here is one you will really like:

I inquired about a firearms rider from a new company that I was going to use for homeowners insurance. When I inquired about the rate for the rider I was told that they would not sell me insurance at all.at all. They do not insure anyone who has firearms in their homes. Not Police, not Military, no one!

:mad:

I called the NRA and was told that it is perfectly legal to discriminate against gun owners in this way. They suggested that I start a grassroots movement against the company. Nice idea but it wasn't happening.

[Allen]

A fire proof safe is a MUST anyone with firearms in the home. Be sure that the safe is secured in place for two reasons. With a heavy door open the safe may rock causing things to fall over. Most important is that the safe is not removed from your home to be opened at the thieves workshop.

No safe is perfect though. A friend went on vacation and returned to find the thief had used the cutting torches that were in the basement, next to the safe, to cut it open and relieve it of its contents. Probably not the best place to store cutting tools.

Allen

[fabsroman]

Yeah, I don't think I would be storing a set of cutting torches right next to the gun safe. I guess the best thing would be to have an alarm on the house, a gun safe for the firearms and valuables, and then an insurance rider for the firearms and valuables. However, something in there has to be a little too much. Personally, when I build a new house I am thinking about building a room out of reinforced concrete in the basement or a separate garage and keeping my firearms in there. Of course, the door to the place would be a vault door. That should keep most people out.

[Mil Dot]

I checked into the NRA insurance 1.66 per $100 of coverage/yr.

So, for a $1000 gun 16.66/yr or replacement in 60 yrs. On the other hand if you have $15,000 in guns that's $250/ yr insurance.

I would assume that you'd be able to buy a decent safe for $2500 to $3000 or at 2750 it would pay for itself in 11yrs using the above info and you would not have the annual burden.

I guess its a function of how much you have to protect, but a safe seems like a better value and less headache. As long as you don't leave a cutting torch leaning against it!:D

[fabsroman]

Most insurance companies will give you a break if you have a safe. My safe cost around $1,700 and it holds something like 42 or 52 guns. It is the 7200 American Security Cascade Series safe. Personally, I really like the safe.

I think I might get insurance for a portion of the collection, so that if it does ever get stolen or destroyed even while in the safe, it won't be as hard to replace. If I had to guess, I would guess that I own about $30,000 of guns, so I would insure it for $15,000 (i.e., the ones I use the most). That way, I can get back to shooting and hunting without having to worry about where I am going to get the money from to buy a new gun.

Later in life, when I am more established, maybe I will cut off the insurance because replacing the guns wouldn't be as big a deal or as much of a hardship. Same goes for the fiance's rings.

[Steverino]

That's a great idea Fabs. I was basically thinking along the same lines over this past weekend when I review all of our insurance needs this Spring. Basically, I wouldn't want to be in a position where I needed to replace shooting irons, at my expense, during a Fall hunting season!:eek: :eek: :D

[Mil Dot]

do you have a link for those folks?

[fabsroman]

The insurance company is Erie, but I believe that they only sell insurance in a couple of states on the east coast. I seriously doubt they sell insurance in Colorado.

Plus, what I quoted was just the percentage from the jewelry rider. I haven't actually received a quote from them for my firearms, but just assumed that the percentage would be the same as the jewelry.

[MarkL]

What about accessories like scopes?

If a $500 gun is stolen that has a $400 scope mounted on it, will regular homeowners insurance cover the scope even if it doesn't cover the gun?

What about scopes that are moved from gun to gun to shelf to gun?

When I tell the ins company the value of my guns, should I include the value of the scopes, magazines, extra barrels, etc.?

[Steverino]

Mark,

My insurance company has a detailed list of everything on a particular firearm (scopes, grips, sights, slings, flip-up scope covers, custom gunsmithing, etc) Of course, the more things that you list, the higher the value to replace in the event of loss and the higher the rider premium.

Again, you have to decide exactly what you would like covered in the event of loss and the costs associated.

[Rocky Raab]

I think I'd first separate my gun collection into two groups: things that can be easily replaced and those that can't. In the first category would be plain-Jane guns like Ruger Blackhawks and Rem 870s. In the second category would be guns like Grampa's old thutty-thutty, a custom gun, a rare gun or the like.

I'd probably not insure the first group at all, figuring the job of buying new ones would be half the fun.

But I'd insure the bejeezus out of the second group, complete with full descriptions, digital photos and whatever else I could think of in the way of documentation. I'd store all the documentation off premises.

[Jack]

For each of my guns, I make up an 8 1/2x 11 sheet with a detailed description, ser #, model of mounts and scope if applicable, etc. Lay that next to the gun and photograph it. Move the gun around so both sides, top, and bottom are shown.
Then, the description sheet, one copy of each photo, and the negative are stored in a safe deposit box at the bank.