Florida- sap, blackjack carry

[gregarat]

I have a nice flat sap that is a "No No" to carry in N.Y.S. But I can carry it in Florida with a permit (thats how I interperate it atleast).

How does this work?

Do I get a spasific permit for my sap?
Do I place it on my CCW handgun permit? If thats the case, how is that done seeing that there isnt any serial #'s on my lether sap?
Or worse case..... Florida is yet another state that frowns upon a "sack full of knobs" :(



Below is the Florida "Dangerous weapon" laws.

62.1-01-01. General definitions. As used in this title, unless the context otherwise requires:


1. "Dangerous weapon" includes any switchblade or gravity knife, machete, scimitar, stiletto, sword, dagger, or knife with a blade of five inches [12.7 centimeters] or more; any throwing star, nunchaku, or other martial arts weapon; any billy, blackjack, sap, bludgeon, cudgel, metal knuckles, or sand club; any slungshot; any bow and arrow, crossbow, or spear; any stun gun; any weapon that will expel, or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air, or compressed gas including any such weapon, loaded or unloaded, commonly referred to as a BB gun, air rifle, or CO2 gun; and any projector of a bomb or any object containing or capable of producing and emitting any noxious liquid, gas, or substance.

62.1-04-02. Carrying concealed firearms or dangerous weapons prohibited.

No person, other than a law enforcement officer, may carry any firearm or dangerous weapon concealed unless the person is licensed to do so or exempted pursuant to this chapter. For purposes of this chapter, dangerous weapon does not mean a spray or aerosol containing CS (ortho-chlorobenzamalonitrile), CN (alpha-chloroacetophenone), or other irritating agent intended for use in the defense of a person.

[VinVega]

My guess (if FL's law is anything like KY's) is that the CCW is actually a concealed carry of deadly weapons permit...meaning basically anything deamed deadly weapon. So, your CCW would probably cover it. I would suggest calling someone in FL who could give you an official response. Hopefully if they trust you with a gun, though, they trust you with whatever else. BTW what is a sap? Are you talking about the gloves with the lead shot embedded in the fists, or something entirely different?

[gregarat]

Are you talking about the gloves with the lead shot embedded in the fists Nope. I have the real deal. Its a Boston Leather "Denver"

The DENVER is made from durable, heavy gauge leather which encases a molded lead weight with a spring steel shank. It weighs 10 oz. and is 9" in length.

Most L.E.O.'s cant carry these old beuties anymore because they can easly cause more damage than a Baton, if the person is "excessive" it could kill someone. I love them because one solid blow to the melon can take down a person jacked up on Meth.

Too bad around 20 years ago a few oficers were bad apples, and now cops have to carry a colapible baton:( .

[DaMadman]

Really nice way to use one of those is to stop short when throwing a punch.

With your hand through the strap and formed in a fist, if you throw a punch in the area of the mid face and stop just short of making contact that spring allows the lead to travel forward thus popping the culprit square in the forehead and most of the time to their knees.

Grandad's brother was a D.C. cop and he used them like that.

[gregarat]

Behind the ear, the colar bone, kneecaps, are also nice targets. (good thing Nancy Kerigan didnt get hit with one of these.:eek: )

Realy almost anywhere on the head is good. Geting hit in the melon causes your brain to slosh inside your skull, resulting in "tweetybird land".

My Great Gramps was a small guy, who had a reputation for being able to floor someone twice his size.
He simply lashed the handle of a sap to the inside of his wrist. Its an Irish Martal art secret;) . He also cast Egyptian curses on his enemy's:rolleyes:

I think it would be an ideal countermesure for a "chemically fueled" attacker.

[8X56MS]

In Fla, anything thats considered a weapon is covered by your CCW license. You do not have to list a particular weapon. The CCW permit states right on the front: "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License"

[gregarat]

The florida statued 790. (concealed weapon) it states anyone with a Concealed weapons license can carry a "billy club", wich is a vauge name to say the least. I then called the Aluchula Co. sheriffs ofice to ask what can, and cannot be considered a Billy club. The Deputy told me that it can be any impact weapon, from a A.S.P., kubboton, PR 24, ect., even a blackjack /sap,. I think "brass knuckels" are still verboten.

However if Im working armed security, with my class G license. I would have to be trained in the spasific weapon, and have the premision of my licensed employer. The employer would then have to contact the Florida licenseing Dep. .
A Sap/Blackjack CANNOT be carryed by a Florida L.E.O.

Thankfully for me, Im not a L.E.O. . Although, I someday might be...?

[TreeDoc]

http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/html/emoticons/smiley_rotflmao.gif Something about this "flat sap" topic has me thinking about something like; "Hey yuse in dare, open up, it's me, Guido. I'm here for da weekly protection payment"

I didn't think these instruments existed anymore.

[gregarat]

Nice impersonation TreeDoc, ya realy had me going.


But honestly, these things deliver alot more damage than any Baton. I guess its hard to understand unless you have had any experience with one.

I just dont know who can train and certify a armed guard to use one? " Now you hit someone like this. *WHAP*. Do you understand,... hey are you O.K.?":rolleyes:

Its a now a moot point for me anyhow. I would just rather use a gun.

[Rapier]

Gregarat,
You can carry a gun, a switch-blade, a baton or a sap amongst other weapons, with your Florida CWP. You do not need a list or serial number. The big thing is that you are responsable for what you do with the weapon. Also, the same restrictions apply for all CWP weapons, no bars, etc. Most of the places you might use a sap are the places you can not carry it, by law.

The cops I know that carry a sap, all older guys, have had a sap pocket sewn into their pants to the rear of their strong hand pocket, along the seam of the pants. The sap sets straight up with the handle tip out about 1 inch or more. Some have the loop out.

I have discussed the use of a sap, at length, with a Lt here on the Dept. He is the acknowledged expert "sapper" on the local sherrif's department. He told me that various points of impact produce different results. Example; Striking the head with the edge of a sap at about a 45 degree angle cuts by tearing the skin off. A glancing blow can peel the skin off like an grape, including the ear. A light, pulled blow, just a tap, above the ear can addle a person for minutes. A little blow behind the ear can kill. A sap takes very little force to be verry effective.

The one thing he was most specific about was that a sap is extreamly dangerous in the hands of someone that does not know where to strike and how to limit the blow. In short, just my opinion here, if a person does not know how to use a sap, has no one to teach them, or they could get angry or scared to the point of not pulling a blow, they should leave it in the drawer.

Ed

[gregarat]

Example; Striking the head with the edge of a sap at about a 45 degree angle cuts by tearing the skin off. A glancing blow can peel the skin off like an grape, including the ear. Yeah... Thats why flat saps are so nasty.

have had a sap pocket sewn into their pants to the rear of their strong hand pocket, along the seam of the pants. Old police pants actualy had a pocket running along the outside of the thigh. I use Carrhart carpenters pants.



I do realise you can carry saps with a CWP. My concern now is actualy geting a training certificate. So I can carry a sap while working armed security.
If you could can you shoot me a message or email. Where I coulgd get certified? or a way I could contact your Lt. buddy?

It would be much apreciated! :)

[Rapier]

Greg,
Sorry I did not get back to you. In rereading my note it looks like the Lt is still active, but he is deceased, about a year now.

I really do not know anyone that teaches or trains folks for the use of a sap. Wish I did, I have come to appreciate the idea of ending an altercation without fuss or muss and without anyone getting holes in them.
Ed

[gregarat]

Ed,

If your worried about killing someone with one, but like them anyhow.
Why dont you get a Boston Leather "Midget". Its abit lighter than a Denver, or Texan, and only 6"in long. So its even more easly concealed. I keep mine behind my walet. (just dont let it break your fall, if your riding a bike. I had a nasty bruse for a week)
The smaller size means you have to hit someone harder to get your desired results. Also, you dont need to hit them in the head. Hiting someone with the saps edge on the colar bone, or on the knee will hurt like no ones busness. Pluse its hard as heck to kill someone when your hiting them on the kneecap.


Sincerly,
Guido:D ;)

[Rapier]

I do not care enough about a sap to change my views right now. Something about old dogs. The first thing I reach for, when trouble starts, is the door knob. :D If I can not get out of the way then someone best call the medical examiner.
Ed