243 vs 257

[denton]

As I mentioned on another thread, I'm relatively unburdened by any real experience using either the 243 or the 257 Roberts on mule deer. Frankly, I'm still a little perplexed.

As far as I can tell, you get almost universal agreement that the 257 is a fine caliber for animals up to large mule deer size.

When it comes to the 243, some people think it's excellent, and some think it's marginal. A friend of mine, who hunts extensively, has a son whose first two mule deer were shot with a 243, both of which required extensive tracking. He promptly switched to an '06--end of problem.

The 257 will propel a 100 grain bullet at up to 3050 fps. The 243 will do 3000 fps with the same weight, not a big difference.

At my age, one factor to consider is the probability of having to track an animal that just doesn't want to go down.

What's the reality of the situation? Is there a real difference between these calibers? Or are guys that have 257's maybe a little more select group, with better skills? Or maybe there is some kind of 257 mystique, and it's really not quite as good as its reputation???

[Rocky Raab]

I think a lot of it has to do with the bullets (and may no longer be true).

Some time back, 6mm bullets were somewhat unpredictable: some would expand and others would not. Bullets from the same box might act differently.

But 257 bullets worked, time after time, as reliably as the sunrise. Maybe it was consistency of the jackets, maybe it was due to better design, or maybe it was just that seemingly miniscule difference in diameter that tipped the balance by virtue of added rotational force.

Whatever the reason, quarter-bore bullets always worked but 243 bullets sometimes didn't.

Today, that may no longer be true. Engineers by now surely know how to build a 243-inch bullet that expands reliably.

I'm a fan of the 25s. If it were my choice, I'd opt for the 257 every time - and have.

[model 70]

i say the .243 but not because of any ballsitics difference. it seems there are more factory loads available if you want to pop varmints and there is just a greater availability of factory stuff. period.

[Evan03]

i dont have any exsperince with the 243, but i would not hesitate to take one mule deer hunting here in idaho. id actualy like to get one someday. from varmits to deer the caliber almost cant be beat.

i know nothing about the reliability issue(if there is one) with 6mm bullets not consistently exspanding. still i wouldnt hesitate. to load 75-100gr bullets for deer use. it would just depend on what the rifle liked best.


my main all around rifle is my 2506. it does everything so well from varmits to deer that i dont need anything else. recoil is pretty much nonexscinstent. its very acurates pushn home brewd pills and select factory fodder.

knowing what i know now. if i didnt have a deer rifle and was picking between the 243-06 class of calibers id almost certianly pick a rifle chamberd in a 257 caliber. the caliber just works and can be stretched with good sturdy pill and used on elk if need be.

but either way for deer hunting you couldnt make wrong decision by going either 243 or 257

Evan

[srab]

I started out my hunting career with a .243Win. Took my
first, second, and third buck with one. All, however, required
multiple shots.

The beauty of the .257Roberts is the ability to shoot
117-120 gr. bullets, at least IMHO. But, you may need to
handload if you want readily-available ammunition.

Personally, though, I much prefer the 7mm versions of
either cartridge (7x57 and 7mm08 Rem), with their ability
to shoot even heavier bullets, at comparable velocities,
with still-modest recoil.

[Andy L]

If your limiting yourself to one of the two, I would go with the quarter bore. (Preferably a 25-06)

If your wanting a mule deer rifle specifically, and capable of more, get a 280. Its about as good as it gets ballistically, and using 140gr instead of 100-120 gr, with very little more recoil, in the guns I have shot. Very impressive round.

Andy

[L. Cooper]

I have seen many deer shot with the .243 and have evolved an opinion that it is a cartridge for the "expert" hunter. It will absolutely kill any deer you hit with it if the shot is placed well, but there is no doubt that sometimes, in certain circumstances, with some awkward bullet placements, occasionally, more sheer power can be very helpful. Sometimes. (You can see I have strong views on that.)

If you use 100 grain premium bullets, keep your shots to less than 300 yards, have the calm and presence of mind to not shoot unless you know you can place it properly, you will have no troubles. My preference is for something bigger specifically for deer.

It is a really nice round to shoot. It handles everything up to deer sized animals with authority. It is just a little on the light side for deer. If a really big buck was disappearing rapidly and needed to be shot from a bad angle at long range, I would be wishing for something shooting much heavier bullets.

I'm not sure that the Roberts offers any real differences to the above conditions for effective use, although I have too little experience with that round to be trusted.

If you are tracking deer shot with a .243, you either used the wrong bullet or you put that bullet in the wrong place. Even using a .30-06 will not guarantee you will never need to track, but it will sometimes reduce the number of tracks you need to follow.

[denton]

Thank you all for the many excellent ideas.

I did some trading, and ended up with a 243. When I got it, I had visions of hunting deer and pronghorn with it. Friends have suggested that it may not be the best choice, and I figured that if I could understand why the 257 is usually accepted in this role, and the 243 gets mixed reviews, maybe I could make a reasonably well informed decision.

The 243 I have is about a 1 MOA gun, which is kind of marginal for small varmints, but ideal for 'yotes, foxes, raccoons and skunks. And, from what I'm reading, it's OK for deer and pronghorn, especially with the right bullets, but there are better choices.

In the big game department, I'm a lot more interested in pronghorn than deer.

I'm really just trying to figure out what the role of my 243 is going to be. Comparison with the 257 is one way to try to understand.

In the end, I'm trying to complete this sentence: A 243 is the ideal gun for....

[toxic111]

The .243 is a great gun for pronghorn... I used my 6mm with 90g ballistic tips to take the one you see in my avatar.

I also have used my 6mm to take around 6 deer in the past few years.

I have not stretched my shots nad have kept them under 200yrds.

The antlope fell to one shot behind the shoulder, and a large mule doe dropped in her tracks at 160+yrds.

As everyone has said, keep your shots reasonable, and put the bullet in the right place you won't be tracking any longer than anything else. I have seen deer lost with .30-06 and .308's!

[gspsonny03]

Denton, I don't think you will be disappointed. I can't say it's better than a 257 because I've never had one, but as I mentioned in the other thread, I've been shooting a 6MM for 30 years and have virtually no problems with it, other than my self.

[Evan03]

it doesnt matter if you shoot a 22/250 or 50bmg, a one shot kill is never garuntee. and no matter the caliber it is normaly never at fault.

shot placement has more to with the outcome then caliber, bullet weight, design, bc.

all thins aside, when shooting deer calibers 243 and larger will drop deer consintently and effintly most every time when the shots placed right.

i dont care fi you 30caliber shoots out of rounds rocks if its placed right the animals gona drop. ir its poorly placed things arent gona be so good.

and just because you have big caliber doesnt mean you should be takn texas heart shots. or thinkn if you hit em in the foot the caliber is still big enough to get the job done.


ive only ever sheen a one shot drop on the spot kill. you wouldnt belive the bullet and caliber. but ill tell you just to put things in perspective. this was a 220swift pushn a 55gr vmas. deer was decent sized 3 point at about 200yds. shot placed in the kneck.

one shot and the buck just literaly fell over in its tracks, like its heart and brain everything was just instently shut down. didnt take singe step didnt kick didnt do nothing. i couldnt belive it. in this case i dont thing the bullwt would have been tough enough to try for the vitals. if it hit rib or the shoulder the bullet would have been useless and wed of ben trakn.

but this guy knows his rifle and knows where to place his shot. he also shoots a 2506, wich happens to be his main deer rifle hee is pushn tripple shocks into the vitals. were on most situations the deer usulay take a few steps before falling over. dead. i always shoot for the vitlas to and have never seen a deer fall dead in its tracks. a few steps are usualy all they take but ive seen them go 50yds or so, while one of my best layed to rest past 100yds .

i wanted to try a kneck shot shot this deer season with my 270wsm. my deer load is 140gr nolser balistic tips. moving between 3000-3200fps. for bout 15 minutes i wacthed buck

cross hairs on the kneck,but i turned the buck down alltogether

it was too small, im long winded

have more to say but i gota talk later

have good night

Evan

[Evan03]

im in way shape or form promoteing varmit calibers as deer rounds.

but on that same note place that shot right and most any pea shooter wioll work.

good luck

Evan

[Nulle]

My 257 is loaded with 38.2 grains of powder + 100gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail = 3,000fps will put meat in the freezer even on the not so perfect shot.

[Dutchboy]

The 243 is ideal for those hunters who want a single gun for varmints and small big game.

There you have it.

Personally, I can't imagine needing more for antelope than a 243 with an 85 gr. TSX bullet. My wife keeps shooting them with her 6PPC, and they keep falling over dead.

Bullet placement, bullet construction, bullet velocity. Cartridges don't kill animals, lack of blood pressure kills animals. It always comes down to that. JMO, Dutch.

[L. Cooper]

I have seen deer drop without taking another step when shot with .243, 6mm. Rem., .308, .30-30, .30-06 .300 Win. and .338 Win. I have also seen deer take varying numbers of steps after the shot with all those rounds. As a generalization, more power often produces fewer tracks after the shot, but...........

Just this season my partner shot a good buck three times through the chest at about 200 yards with 165 grain handloaded Ballistic Tips from a .30-06 on a bipod. For the first two shots it just stood there, not even a flinch. It did look in his direction once. If we hadn't heard the hits he would have thought he missed. It took a couple of walking steps after the second round and stopped. After the third, it took one step and fell to never move again. All three were in a 4 inch group through and through the chest cavity. Any one would have been fatal. A few seconds elapsed between shots waiting for the buck to realize he was dead before deciding to just shoot it again, so the whole thing took probably 30 seconds. It defies logic.

Anyone who says he knows what will happen when he shoots a particular round at big game is plainly inexperienced. There are too many variables. Nothing will drop an animal instantly every time; almost everything will do so when all the conditions are right.

[Cal Sibley]

It's been my understanding that the .243Win. had much to do with killing off the 25 calibers, maybe not so with the .25-06 though. I have an older Savage 110 in .243Win. and it's accurate enough for my woodchuck hunting. I've never really felt comfortable in using it for deer though although many hunters do.
I think it simply boils down to personal choice. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Evan03]

heck my pellet gun could drop a buck of a lifetime with one shot instanlty if all conditions are just right, lucks on my side and the deer is takeing that perfect breath as i squeeze the pellet off in his eye.


as you can see i do agree.

it doesnt matter what you shoot. every kill is difrent. if you shoot deer thats standing calmly it might fall over dead instantly, it may take of at dead run lasting for 100yds. or it may start to take off and do a knose dive. but chances are this deer that is calmly feeding will drop very quick with well placed shot from most any center fire out to 300yds. small calibers included.

but that same deer that youve been chaseing. has adrniline flowing. then stops to look back at you and you plug him, youve beren hikn hard to keep after him. your shots not placed very well. basicaly you saw the deer and aimed at it. vitals nor shotplacemtn not crossing your mind, because you dont want to miss your opurtunity. so youve just punched buck with the ultra mag 338. that your now following a very faint blood trail. and no site of the buck.

maybe you winged it, glanced off its belly hit it in the foot, shot through the antler(ive seen that happen). theres all kinds of bad shots that can happen when shots are russed due to time and adreniline

these are the calibers i shoot for deer. 2506, 270win, 270wsm

i shoot a varity of 100gr bullets in the 25, hand loaded balistic tips, that are very acurate but may not give me the best bad shot placementr performancec, i also shoot rem 100gr core lokts. these are more acurate than youd ask for from a factory load thats inespensive. but would work best in the ideal shot placement situation.

the 270wsm, is loaded with 140gr nolser bts because they shoot so well. i hunted with this load this last season feeling confident a well placed shot would do the trick. never got to test the load on anything but coyote. at 300yds the bullite didnt exit.

my 270win shoots 150gr nolser partitions, not as acurate as the wsm, but in my opion give me more shot opurtunitys. the tough bullet will penetrate bone and hopefully reach the vitals or send bone junks to them from bad shot angles

ill hunt everyday anywhere with my 2506 but i feel ill let the not so greast shots go but if that monster walks out at a bad angle you can bet ill wait for a better shot for only so long before i send a 100gr nolser bt his way.

[CanWoodsman]

The 25.06 is an excellent deer round. It will push a factory 115-120g. round over 3000' per sec. with handloads doing slightly better.

Best Wishes

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

As for the .243 Win cartridge, well it's certainly taken enough game over the years to prove that it's capable of doing so. However I do believe with the 6mm's that bullet selection is paramount. There are simply a lot of varmint bullets in the 6mm range which is something I have to look into as I will be looking at a rifle in 6mm Remigton in a week or so.

Now as to Deer not showing a hit and then running, Hmmmm I can relate to that. My only Whitetail Buck so far did this to me after a about perfect broadside shot which put a 7mm 139 Grn BTSP at about 60 yards taking out the top of the heart and both lungs, yet he just started runnning at an angle down the deer trail behind me where he stopped to look back and I out the second one through him which dropped him.

The thing is called "Messamastics" which is pre programmed muscle movements, the Deer is a prey animal and nearly always ready for flight. The Buck was looking my way, so perhaps he saw me move to aim at him:rolleyes: but he certainly felt the bullet hit which triggered th flight mode. He would nto ahve gone a lot furhter with both lungs punctured and the top of the heart destroyed, but he may have made it into the creek so I shot again. Plus at 60 yards I didn't hear the bullet hit:rolleyes: .

[.243hunter]

The 243 is good as long as you put the bullet in or close enough to the right place. 243 ammo is also availble just about where ever ammo is sold