Did You See It? Did You See It???

[Valigator]

The 2005 Westminster Kennel Show.......Carlee a female German Shorthair took best in show.....that was the first time I saw a pointer actually make it to the finals....and you should of heard the crowd...I have never seen the audience fall so in love with a dog.....and the applause for that dog was deafening.....when she took the ribbon I jumped up and screamed I was so happy!!!!!!It was a good noght for all of us pointer lovers.......

[gspsonny03]

Get out of town! I quit watching that particular dog show for that very reason. The Hunting dogs never get anywhere. Although they usually aren't hunting dogs even though they are classed as such. All I can say is about time.

[M.T. Pockets]

I didn't see it, but I heard it on the radio news this morning.

[Valigator]

OH Sonny, I really wish you had seen it I am sure it will be replayed.....honest to God I have never ever seen an audience react to a dog like they did to her...people were on their feet....she will make the talk show circuits now and more people will get an appreciation and education on them...its a good thing....

[skeet]

Val, How can you watch that crap!! That ain't a dog show..that's a people show..really! Gag me with a spoon! The fix was in again. Those people are so tied up with kennel club politics that it's not about dogs anymore. Dog and pony show is more like it! Even field trials are screwed up any more. I've been a gun at some retriever trials and everything has to be just perfect. Not like working a dog in the HUNTING fields at all! Much less a Kennel Club like that (gag) thing on TV. I'd much rather have a working dog that doesn't do everything right but really finds the birds than those cookie cutter, look at the way I stand aren't I pretty dogs.. Sorry just the way I feel:(

[Valigator]

Oh Skeet... c'mon....of course there are politics....but anyway you look at it if your a dog lover, these shows portray the physical perfection of the breeds....they are great to watch...It just warmed my heart to finally see a gun dog take the show.....if Carlee never pointed anything but lizards...she was still the highest standard for her breed....

[skeet]

Just my opinion you understand but the highest standards for the breed are the ones that work their wonders in the field....not in a coliseum. That show is a joke as far as hunting dogs are concerned. And yes I love dogs...except ankle biters...but that show isn't about dogs...It is about politics. It's about like watching the Miss America pageant. Sure they are pretty...but why are they better than the rest of the pretty ladies in the world...Oh and they all want "world peace" just like Araffat! They'll do anything to win. Been around some of these dog show people and can tell you they are a bunch of elitist idiots. Hunt a hunting dog??? Oh no....I couldn't let my dog do that!! Not trying to get ya ticked kiddo but just the way I feel. Not much different with field trials either!

[Gotcha!]

Actually, it all has to do with Breeder Ethics. I had 2 GSP's from a breeder in SoCal, that bred for Dual Champions. You had to be interviewed and approved by her to even buy a dog from any of the breedings she controlled. Most of hers were BIG dogs too. My Stud weighed 95 lbs and all of his muscles showed. You had to sign an agreement to hunt the dogs and, for certain dogs, you were required to use her kennel name in its registered name.

While it is true that a lot of "show" breeders don't really care what the original intent of a breed is, there are some who try to perpetuate the true traits of the dog, not just its confirmation. Pedigrees don't make a dog either, and often the best breeders get duds. Thats just the nature of the beast - because there will always be throwbacks to wild stock from which selective breeding originated.

Most of us "dog" people already know that, allowed to become feral, dogs will revert back to Dingo looking critters who forage for themselves.;)

[Jack]

I'm afraid I'm with Skeet on this one.....

[skeet]

Gotcha is pretty much right except for one thing with Breeder ethics. When they require all these things from a buyer...it's all about money. Not for you ...but for them. Money and politics in the dog world. They just seem to screw up everything. Sigh!:confused:

[Gotcha!]

I didn't say anything about money. Of course it is what drives the world. How many of you spend the money to breed good dogs, and then give them away? (Not talkin about your friends and relatives here.)

BTW - in the late '60's this woman got $2500 and 2 litters of pups (by her Stud) for an 18 month old *****(female dog) that wasn't even for sale. That came from a "Hunt Club" that only wanted the dog for hunting, and being able to get the pups was the only way she would sell the dog.

Now, personally, I don't really care to hunt with "Field Trial" dogs anyway, and trained mine to hunt the way I liked. All the stuff they train dogs to do to look pretty kinda gets in the way of a good "meat" dawg!:eek:

[Valigator]

Wow a couple of ya sure know how to take the play out of the pup dont ya?

[BILLY D.]

HEY VAL

CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF IT WAS A GREAT VICTORY FOR THE DOG, THE HANDLER AND THE BREED.

ANY THING THAT IS DONE AT THAT LEVEL OF PROFESSIONISM IS THE SAME, BE IT CARS, GUNS, DOGS ETC. YOU BET YOUR SWEET PATOOTIE IT'S ABOUT MONEY. SO WHAT, IT DOES NOT DETRACT FROM THE INSTINCTS OF THE BREED.

IT WAS A GREAT WIN FOR A GREAT DOG AND BREED. YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT AWAY. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU OWN A DEUTCHE KURZ HAAR OR NOT, OR IF YOU ARE JUST AN ANIMAL LOVER, BUT YOU CAN RELISH IN THE VICTORY. SOME FOLKS JUST CAN'T ENJOY ANYTHING OR LET OTHERS ENJOY IT EITHER. BAH HUMBUG!!!

ENJOY, LIFE IS SHORT.

[M.T. Pockets]

I've been hearing about it all day on the news radio in Minnesota. I can't ever remember hearing about this event before, apparantly it's a big deal for a hunting breed to win this event. I guess the people outside Madison Square Garden was going wild.

If people are having fun, why not. It's not my money their spending. I don't know if this win will be a real benefit to the German Shorthair breed overall, I think of what happened to the Iris Setter breed when they started being bred for shows instead of hunting.

I have quite a bit of experience in my youth showing cattle. In my mind there's not much difference than these dog shows. With cattle it was more of a pride issue and parents will do and spend whatever it takes for their little 4-Her to win a purple ribbon at the County Fair.

[gspsonny03]

Val, There is a guy on here, I think it's Brithunter, with the tag line "don't let them grind you down". Maybe they are right maybe they aren't, it really doesn't matter. You're excited, I'm excited, wheather it's political or not a GSP finally won. And unless they can test it for steroids or something they can't take it away.:p I do agree with M.T. though and that's whats consoled me about the pointing breeds not being recognized for the last forever. Every time a dog breed gets recognition from a "Show" title, the public becomes enamored with them and every Tom, Dick and Harry on the continent thinks they ought to breed them and sell them for a fast profit, with no intention of keeping up the breed standard. As M.T, mentioned that's what happened to the Irish Setter, the Lab, the Poodle to some degree and a whole host of others. You can find them in every animal shelter in the country. I just hope that doesn't happen here. I will have to admit though when I bought my first GSP here six years ago, if you met someone on the street and they seen him, they would ask what kind of dog is that? Now they are all over town. Anyway thanks for the post Val, I enjoyed it. But then you knew I would. ;)

[Lilred]

I aint gonna git in that there long drawn out discussion..me personally..I wouldnt care if the dog was uglier than homemade soap and walked with a cane..iffin he runs good..then he runs good..lol

Havin a dog that's all looks is as bout as much good as a 1 legged man in the county butt kickin contest
:D
...but it sure is good to see a huntin dog win anything..so a congrats goes to the dog

[ds]

was the standard for the gsp for a long long time. The Grief dogs, Rugerheim, Hillhaven Hustler, and the orginal Adam Line (which are the dogs I own).

It was not until recently that dogs like Rusty,Slick, Clown, Jigs, and Ib starting throwing dogs that look more like english pointers than german ones. DNA testing is about to put the Kabash on that. I do not like the Rusty dogs, and would not own a dog out of Rawhide's clown if you paid me to take HIM. Slick throws some decent pups and some real dazzlers for All Age type dogs, but I still like the old German lines best.

[gspsonny03]

Well now there you go Val, aren't you glad you found out what a piece of crap dog I have, before you bought one just like him.
I guess that's why they invented chocolate and vanilla ice cream, so everyone has a choice.

[kt]

the damn thing is rigged the beagle was obviously the best in show and didnt win a thing, and im not just saying that because i have one either ;)
kt

[Nulle]

I raised Grief dogs in the 70's and they were sure great. Now on this Show dog thing: I have two good friends here so will be careful as to what I say lol . I was glad to see the win but in the same respect hope they do not go the way of the Setters . I will tell you one thing this win will have an impact on the breed and hope it will be a good one. Our Shelters are full of labs and I would Hate to see GSP in there from nuts that baught them without a clue as to what they were bred for.

[Nulle]

NOT ! lol

[Valigator]

Well I will agree with you Nulle on the trends of most dogs to become exploited, but I doubt it will happen in this case.....as someone said it has been mentioned on most of the news cast yesterday....and it seemed every one had to make their opinions known...one woman...on one of our local chanels said.."the dog does nothing for me"...another one said "I dont get it" also in most of the descriptions of the dogs...the moderator usually inserts specifics about each breed...."great family dog"..."good with children"...."great apartment dog"....you usually dont get that with the sporting class....I went down last year to the humane society specifically looking for a pointer...not one was to be found....the group "pointer rescue" is usually the place to look if you are so inclined...the more we thought about it, the less we wanted to go into an unknown direction...and my guy said he got one gun-shy dog in his life, he wouldnt want another one....I am rambling now...hey I thought the win was great and I still do....and Sonny and Nulle, we all know you guys have the best GSP's in the world....right....and I have the best English.....in fact I'll go now and kiss'em on the lips....:p :cool:

[Nulle]

Well Thanks for understanding where I was coming from on this.
I don't think it will happen either and by the way when that dog won I also let out a YELL that put my horses on the run lmao.

[Valigator]

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/876226/2890752/35293064.jpg

[gspsonny03]

Thanks for saying so Val, and if you said it, it must be true. I do agree with what Lilred said though. I don't care what a dog looks like as long as he works for you. Looks and all the paperwork in the world doesn't necessarily mean that's going to happen. I didn't get to see the show, but I did go out on the Web and I must say that is one good looking dog.

[Jabba]

I could not stay out of this one... :D

Carlie is a beautiful dog. ANd I smiled a huge smile when I heard the news... but the first thing I thought of was that I'll bet she can't run all day with my Cooper or find half the birds he does. I think Cooper is a handsome fella though too. We have been playing ball with him a lot. he can almost grab a ball flying against an 8' ceiling. 6'... EASY 7' sometimes. They are so athletic it's amazing.

What scares me is that a bunch of people will want them, not knowing how much exercize they need to be happy. If Cooper goes more than a day without getting all lathered up and hot from playing or working, he's pretty miserable to be around.

I'd hate to see a lot of GSP's in shelters because their owners didn't know what they were getting into.

I'd also hate to see the breed destroyed by a bunch of back yard breeders.

Jabba

Jabba

[gspsonny03]

I agree with you Jabba, and I'll bet you are right on, in your assessment. She is probably a "show" dog only. That's pretty much what they did to the Irish Setter years ago. They are such a pretty dog, they make a great show dog, so they pretty much bred the hunting instinct out, and there you go, a great show dog. I was watching a show the other day and I think they said there is only like three or four hunting breeders left in the U.S.A. the rest sell their dogs for either, but mostly for show. I'd sure hate to see the GSP go that route.

[Cal Sibley]

I agree. It was delightful seeing a hunting dog win it. Usually the Schnauzers do well in this one, but not this year. Owning a Giant Schnauzer I was kind of disappointed, but that's the nature of the shows.

Someone made a comment about being in it for the money. Is that a joke? I don't know of many dog breeders who got wealthy from it. Have a litter of ten puppies sometime, realizing you're looking at shots every two weeks, plus deworming, general vet bills etc. Let me know how your bank account holds up. Mine certainly didn't fare all that well some years ago. As far as traits of the dog, it's not the dog, it's what YOU, the owner does with it. The animals are usually capable of much more than we can teach it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Nulle]

The money thing I don't think was a joke. For us sapps that have a few pups to sell there is nothing in it but when you get into this caliber the anti goes up alot. It would be interesting to know what the stud fees and pups bring out of this dog.

[Jabba]

Cooper set me back $900. When it's time for another dog... I'm going back to the same guy.

Jabba

[Nulle]

My English Setter "pup" was over a Grand .
In the 70's when we raised GSP we ran the Von Greif line and the pups we didn't make alot on but the started dogs went high. These dogs were hunters but our location in the Dakotas limited the price we could get. We did ok and the dogs paid for many a hunting trip to other areas lol