22-250 accuracte load trouble

[Shane in WI]

I have a M70 Featherweight in 22-250 I've been working on. Just trying to get an accurate load. I've tried both 50 gr Vmax and 52 gr Match, Hdy bullets along w/ Varget, H4350, and Benchmark powder. Using Win brass and primers, I varied the seating depth and tried neck sizing. I also free floated the barrel which helped some. Trigger is set at 3.5#'s and I have changed the scope so I don't think these are the problems. I have shot 3.8" groups with both my 30-06 and my 338 so I can't blame my shooting for everything.
The result is always the same, 1 1/4" to 1 3/4" groups at 100 yards. Sometimes worse, but just over an inch is about all I can get out of it. I realize this isn't bad, just looking for better? Is that unrealistic for a light rifle barrel? The lands are to far out to load bullets close to them. They would be too long for the magazine and only be into the neck 1/16" which I don't think is enough. Maybe this is the problem? I have not bedded the rifle, or tried heavier bullets yet.
Where should I turn next? Or am I to the point of selling it and buying a bull barrel bolt gun.
_________________

[L. Cooper]

Well, from your description of the components you've tried, I would think I had just begun the search. There are lots more bullets, powder, case and primer combinations to try, not to mention a systematic effort to test overall lengths. There are many variables you haven't even mentioned like neck sizing, weighing cases, turning necks, and so on to keep you occupied for a while too.

One comment/question. Is the 3.8 inch groups from your other rifles correct? If that is the best you have shot with an -06 or the .338, your bench rest technique may be another variable to examine. I have never seen a rifle in those calibers that would not shoot better than that. Mind you, I have personal experience with only two .338's, but several -06's

In short, you have just begun the search for accuracy. If you want another gun, sell the one you have, but the next one may take just as much effort to find a load that will shoot less than 1 moa. Such rifle/load combinations are more rare than you would think if you just listened to writers in magazines and the stories around hunting camps.

[Jack]

I would give the barrel a thorough cleaning, pick up a can of Hodgdon 380 powder, and test about 5 different bullets.
I usually start with Nosler Ballistic Tips and Sierras in a varmint rifle. The Hornady V Max is another good one. Make sure you try some different bullet weights, too. You didn't mention a 55 grain bullet- I would surely try one of those, at least, along with a 50 grain. And maybe a 40 grain.
You don't yet know what this rifle likes, so it's too early to make any judgements about the rifle.

[Rocky Raab]

Both gentlemen are correct.

You may also have to shoot slower. I don't mean bullet speed, I mean time between shots. Let that spaghetti barrel cool back down between shots and it may behave better.

Skinny barrels can shoot, but they sometimes need a little more TLC. You may have to rebed the gun. Sometimes a bit of upward stock pressure is better than freefloating a thin barrel, too.

Of the three powders you've tried, I'd only rate the Varget as being better suited to this round. Benchmark is a bit fast and 4350 a tad slow. Classic powders for it are in the H-380/Varget/4064/4895/RL-15/W760 area. I'd be reaching for one of those if I were loading it.

That goes for 55-grain bullets, too. That's the classic weight for this round, and most guns are designed for it.

And do let a proven bench shooter print a few groups, too. As mentioned above, it may not be the gun or the load!

[Shane in WI]

I see my mistake now. Yes, I meant 3/8" groups with the 30-06 and the 338wm rifles. They both shoot good and I didn't have to work near as hard to find a load they liked. Last night I loaded up some 40grain V-max and some 52 grain match BTSP bullets w/ Varget to try Saturday. I'm not thinking that it's my shooting, but anything is possible. Been working on this rifle off and on for several years and just can't get real tight groups with it. Seems to have groups, rather than patterns, but all the combinations show up about the same. Whe I tried Benchmark, I used a whole # of powder testing and retesting loads to see if what I was loading and shooting repeated the groups and they did. Only tried H4350 to see if a very different powder would affect things, didn't make much difference. It is a wood stock and like I mentioned after problems I floated the barrel. I am not able to load the bullets out to near the lands as the lands are to far out. Bullet would only be into the neck by 1/16" and the magazine isn't near long enough for that. I tried it alittle, but didn't make much difference.
Thanks for the idea's.
Shane

[Cal Sibley]

You mentioned floating the barrel, but have you glass bedded the action? I had a Savage with a thin barrel in .22-250. The first two shots in a five shot group would often touch, then the group went all to hell, especially with the last two shots. Sporter barrels heat up very fast, and you can kiss acuracy goodbye. I always reach around and grab the barrel about an inch or two in front of the action. If it's too hot to leave my fingers there it's too hot to shoot. Lightweight barrels don't usually do too well at the bench in the best of times. Drink a coke, have a smoke, go for a whizz, anything but let that barrel cool. That or, do what I did. Put a Hart SS 26" varmint barrel on it. My .22-250 now groups in the mid .2"s. It wasn't cheap, but I smile a lot more now. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal :D

[Shane in WI]

I thank everyone for their help. I have been letting the barrel cool between groups. I might be wrong, but I wouldn't think 3-4 shot groups would give enough heat to cause the problems I'm having. Barrel is plenty cool enough to touch.
I have a few more loads to try tomorrow w/ different bullets. I may keep this gun for a hunting rifle and look to buy a heavier barreled gun to do what I want. Any suggestions on rifle brands for a "hunting/target" rifle? I don't have any rifles w/ the laminated stocks so I think this would be a good place to start.

[Shane in WI]

I was able to shoot the rifle again this weekend but wasn't able to improve much on the groups w/ 2 new and different loadings.
I did go the a few shops and check out the Savage rifle as well. Pretty nice gun I thought. That's where I was leaning as well. I have a shooting contest this weekend (small and informal, but lots of fun) I decided to take my 30-06 as it shoots much better than this 22-250. One more thing I was told to try was plugging the end of the barrel and filling w/ oil, so that's setting right now.

[22-250fanatic]

Shane - Try this load, I have shot it in 5 different rifles and it has always been below 1 moa. I shoot it exclusively.

50gr V-max on top of 34.5 gr IMR 3031 - 2.37 OAL WLR primers

3700fps in a 24" barrel & the 2.37 OAL will just fit the 3 shot clip on my Rem 788 and Tikka T3 Lite.

Money back if your not delighted.

[Shane in WI]

I happen to have all those components so I'll give that load a try. Thanks for the tip.

[Freebore]

Shane,
I have Ruger I almost thru in the mighty 'Sus until I tried IMR 4895 and up close to the lands. IMR 4064 woked just as well 1 grain difference. I've settled on the 55 grain ballistic tips although the 50 and 52 shot the 55's were better. Check your bedding and like Rocky suggested sometimes forend pressure about 1-2 " back from the end, may take some experimenting with different thickness shim. Some factory barrels do take a few rounds to 'come in'.

[22-250fanatic]

Shane - Let me know how this works for you. It works for me.

[scooterman27006]

22-250 i wanted to ask what type are the 5 rifles you shoot this load in and if its ok lol i might give this recipe a go my self - i like shane have tried several combos but nothing turned out great just ok is all - i will give this a shot in a encore 26" 22-250 and let ya know also thanks

[Evan03]

my 270wsm took 8 loads of the same bullet same powder, just difrent powder charges. then i found the sweet spot just below max load.


id think that youd atleast see some changes with difrent powder chargers of the same powder and bullet..

im gona jump on wionchesters site and make sure your rifle has 1/14 twist if it does it should shoot something in the 50-55gr weight range pretty good.

ive got two heavy barreld 22/250s. the first one is a rem 700 vs sf(fluted tube) when i first got it i was shooting alot of facotry ammo. i had been shooting all difrent makes and brands trying to finding something it liked. with the theary in the back of my head that they like 55gr bullets. finaly i tried hornadays factory loaded 50gr stuff. and holy cow suddenly it turned into difrent rifle i was pleased to say the least.

then later i got heavy barreld ruger in 22/250. the only thing ive fed this rifle has been hornadys 50gr vmax load and it shoots pretty dang good to.

now im loading some 50gr vmaxes behind 414 powder and egualy hornady load in acuracy.

if you havent tired the hornady factory loads id sujest giving them a wirl. they might suprise you. that load might give you something go go off of.

ohhhhhh next powder i try will be the h380 and more then likly a 53 gr tripple shock ontop.

good luck
Evan

[22-250fanatic]

I personally own 3 of them. Remington 788(20 years old)3-12x 40 , Ruger KM77VT - thats a 26" heavy barrel, which shoots the best of the 3, I have a 6-24x50 target scope of it. My newest one is a Tikka T3 Lite 4-16.42mm, I bought it last March.

I have also shot it in my brothers Winchester Model 70 it has a sporter type barrel on it.

The last one was a Savage 110, it had a horrible trigger out of the box but I still shot 1.25" groups at 100 yards.

I swear by this load, I haven't shot a factory load for 4 years. I have a prairie dog shoot planned for June and these 3 rifles and 1000 rounds of ammo are going with me.

[da silver fox]

Shane I think I can help

[da silver fox]

Shane, I had trouble with my 220 swift. I backed off to reasonable speeds around 3600 fps. purchased a bullet comparator to check runout, a micrometer tomeasuure neck thickness. shot 100 rounds through and selected a few pet brass.(35 out of 100 or so) loded the pets up and ran them through the dial indicator to check bullet runout <.0015 selected the best of those. Chamber diameter at the neck and neck thickness of the case will govern the bullet seating preasure and give you consistant chamber pressure. Now you have spent about $400 and two weeks of your spare time. Your wife and your friends think you are a little nuts but the prarrie dogs' spy is running home with some terrible news! Let us know if it was worth it.

da fox,

[da silver fox]

one more thing,

in that $400 was a set of competition dies with interchangeable bushings for different neck thinknesses and near perfect neck runout.

[scooterman27006]

ok im gonna try this in the morning - only because h380 was the only one i had out of the list -- 55 gr noslers ballistic tips and new win brass with win primers and a mix of 38 gr 40 gr and 41 gr i am going to shoot 5 of each and see what happens - now with this encore barrel 26in i had to run out col to 2.250 and this is a little longer than it should be but that is what the gauge said and that is almost touching so i will see what they do and i wont get barrel hot either lol - will post after i try it

[Jack]

hmmmm
..."55 gr noslers ballistic tips and new win brass with win primers and a mix of 38 gr 40 gr and 41 gr"....
I'd suggest you work up in smaller increments, like 36, 36.5, 37, etc.
More work and components, I know, but for one, it's safer, and for another, you may be passing right over the best load using such big jumps in the powder charge.

[scooterman27006]

jack i forgot to mention i have already tried the 380 but i didnt use 55 grain i had been using smaller and the best i got was pretty good and i used 38.5 gr of 380 sort of in the middle but i will try the lighter loads as you suggested i will also try 36 and 36.5 and so on and see what happens - i will stck with the 55 gr bullet and i will try different powders when i go shopping

[scooterman27006]

well well in this case less is more-- ok i tried the 55 noslers with 36 to 41 of h380 and guess what 38 is the sweet spot but even though its longer than should be-- i went with a overall length of 2.250 with all of the loads and with the 38 grains its right on there it will keep it in a dime - no i didnt take the calipers down to target with me lol but 4 were in a dime 3 touching and the 5th out to the left a little but that may have been me and wind was off and on breezing a little - i am going to clean barrel good and load a bunch of these and watch for a crow - if this load proves itself with shooting the gun right out of safe with the first shot several times i believe i am gonna put it in the book as "best load" for the 22-250 encore oh forgot to mention i did moly the bullets and barrel long time ago so this is with moly treated stuff -

[Cal Sibley]

Every rifle I buy today, I take to the gunsmith before going to the range, to have it glass bedded, the barrel floated and the trigger lightened. Most of the factory rifles we buy today aren't worth diddley out of the box. I don't like spending the extra money on them but really see no way around it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Evan03]

cal id shoot them first.

that one rifle out of 100 may suprise you and save you some cash.

ive floated barrels on just about every rifle ive ownded and bedded a few.

i do have one that hasnt recived anything other than some trigger grinding. barrel isnt floated, its not bedded. and is my best shooting rifle with reloads and pretty dang acurate shooting cheap factory stuff. this rifle cost me just the buying price. no investemnt other than time i spent stoneing the trigger.

[AVN]

I've allways had excellent accuracy using 35 gr of IMR4064 and 52 gr hp, bt match serrias.

[highthrill]

a little trigger work might help and shoot 3 fast rounds, let cool for 15 minutes, then shoot 3 slow rounds about a minute between each shot and you will see what the gun likes. In everything you are trying, pick which bullet shoots the cloest group for you, then work on the powder.