Bolt action brush gun?

[model 70]

I'm thinking an inexpensive model 700, the ADL? synthetic/blued in .308win

Not sure what the factory barrel length is but I'd want it chopped to no longer than 20". Maybe even 18 or 19.

Top it with a 1.5-4x leuopold scope

That would be my ideal rig for chasing black bears through the sierras behind dogs. I've come to realize I'm not fond of lever guns.

What do you think?

[Evan03]

sounds about perfect to me.

if i was build one it would be either the 3006 or blowed out 06 case to 338 or 35. it would be semi heavy fluted tube at 20" with sporter weight stock. flinging 220gr pills.

but the 308 and reg 3006 would be just as perfect.

i like the idea of short stiff barrel. it would still weigh in the 7.5lb range

[model 70]

i like the short action for some reason. more than enough knock down with the .308 when you go over 200gr. plus, seems like I could work the short action a bit quicker. You still think that would weigh over 7lbs? I was thinking i would want it under 7, maybe around 6-6.5lbs.

[Evan03]

i ws thinkn a remington vt taper barrel fluted and cut to 20".

the sendero weighs 8.5 knock 6"s of barrel off it and i bet loses a lb or so.


look into the ltr ill get you a link. its a 20" heavy barreld rig remington builds for the police force. i dont think its that heavy and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg either. a

heres the link.

i think youl like it.

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/700ltr.htm

[Cal Sibley]

How about something along the lines of a Browning Micro Medallion. It comes in .308Win, weighs exactly 6.0lbs, has a short 20" barrel. Certainly the caliber is potent enough unless you live around the big brown bears. I think most of the gun companies produce a model like this. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[model 70]

don't those browings come with shiney wood stocks? I'd have to bang one up. thats the reason behind the cheap ADL stock.

["yote"]

Mod 7 Rem, SS syn stock 308.
Win Mod 70 Compact 308.
Both have 20" bbls.
The Rem is just a little over 6lbs.
Loaded up with a good 165-180gr bullet
and you will be set to go.

[model 70]

Good gosh I think you've done it with the model 7. what would ballistics look like if you took another 2" off the barrel?

[Andy L]

I have some friends that do just what your talking about. I wanted to go last year and didnt, trying to get squared away for this year.

One carries a lever .308, the other a 30-30 lever. I think more than anything, just because they fit the scabbard better. (Dont know if your horseback or not though...)

Year before last, I think the 30-30 scored. Last year, one got to the tree before the other, ground tied his horse and was going to look at the bear a bit and wait for the other one to get there. The bear came out of the tree and charged. He killed it with his sidearm. I think he said it came to rest at 15'.

Anyway, I asked what I should bring and was told if I didnt have a levergun to go buy a cheap 30-30. Works fine and treed animals arent hard to kill.

Would have been fine last year had he rode up and shot the bear out. ;)

Andy

[trex]

How about a remington 7600 pump in the carbine model?

[gregarat]

How about a Enfield jungle carbine, with a Cooper style scout mount:cool:

[M.T. Pockets]

I've got a brush rifle on my wish list too. Thinking of a Remington 7600 rechambered to .358 Win. or .35 Whelen. Planning ahead on hunting moose from a canoe.

[skeet]

Heck you guys are just newbies or something. I already have the best brush gun for chasing bears. I have a Remington 141 Pump in the great and powerful 35 Remington. All the work has already been done for ya. Just look for that caliber gun in any action and you'll be as well armed as it is possible to be. 250 gr 35 cal bullet works great

[billy ahring]

Custom Remington 700 in .350 Rem mag. Robar NP-3 finish in a camo Mcmillan stock with a Bushnell Elite 3200 1.5X4.5 firefly reticle. This rig fits my specs to a T as to what I wanna be packing in the brush whether I'm chasing bears, boars or bucks. I also have a Remington model 7 SS in .308 that is pretty close to perfect but not quite as perfect a niche gun as the .350.

If I were buying a factory rifle today to fill that niche I would take a long hard look at the new .325 wsm model 70 stainless or as much as I hate to say it the 673 Remington in .350 mag. I just don't much care for the ugly laminated stock and the goofy ventilated rib on that gun. If I were to buy a 673 I'd be shopping for a stock and losing the vent rib pronto.

Billy

[buckhunter]

I totally agree with a good old Model 7 Remington. Carried one for a lot of years. With a good 180 gr roundnose corelok its good enough for just about anything that walks in the lower 48. Also good enough to about 250 yds. My vote is for the 7.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

Model 7 is a neat little package.

[Rocky Raab]

Good choices all. The 308 is more than enough for black bears. Heft a few and one of them will whisper "Take me home."

That'll be the one to buy.

Oh, BTW, the Browning also comes in the matte, plainer Micro-Hunter. A Hunter it is, too.

[Hi Ball]

Model 70, I have just the ticket for your Brush Gun!

How about a British .303 jungle carbine? I have one and it is the "Cat's Meow" for the brush country.

If that doesn't suit your fancy, then a wore out model 70 with a new .338 caliber or .358 caliber barrel attached and your go to go, it don't get anybetter. Just keep that barrel length to 22 inches. I am affraid any shorter and you will have to much muzzle blast, if you run close to Max handloads in the rifle.:)

[Jack]

First deer rifle I ever owned was an 18" barreled 308.
I still have it. The rifle wore peep sights for a long time, but now has a Pentax 0-4x scope on it.
I doubt there would be much difference in velocity between a 20" barrel and an 18" barrel. Out of my 18", Nosler 165 partitions give a velocity of 2600 with a not particularly hot handload.
Can't say I've ever shot a bear with it, but if I got the chance, I'd use that rifle and load with no worries.

[Evan03]

rem 700 lv sf 308

[billy ahring]

I don't believe that big green chambers the .308 in the lvsf. They used to chamber 7-08 but I don't see it listed anymore. All varmint calibers, no deer cals. which I think is a shame I think there is a market for just that kinda gun. I'd consider one but then again I'd consider just about anything.

Later

Billy

[gumpokc]

I've got two "bolt action brush guns".

1 is a sporterised .303 SMLE, the second is a M44 carbine.

Unless your just looking to spend money, or find something that you just really want to have, then some of these old milsurps cant be beat.

good pricing, decent cartridges, more accurate than you'd think, what more can you ask for?

[Evan03]

i thought they chamberd it but dropped it this year. along with the 7mm08.

[Evan03]

did some checkn on the 308 lv sf and it does exsist.

i checked on the 308 but now that i think about it there were 3 mediam calibers i think, 7mm08, maybe 260 and the 308

my guess is you may still find some chamberd in 308 on the new gun racks and remington might still be shipping them outa theyre factory. they might have punched out a bunch of 30cal lv sf barrels and are just now gettting them all screwd together and to dealers.

if anyones interested the 308 is out there and can be had, it makes one heck of perfect all around acurate hunting rifle that you can carry all day long

Evan

[PJgunner]

My choice would be a Ruger 77 RSI (The International) in .308 Win. Bullets of choice would be either the 165 gr. Speer Hot-core or the 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter in round nose form. Using Winchester brass, I would load the 165 gr. bullet with 49.0 gr. of W-760 for 2550 FPS. (That's what My three RSI rifles deliver.) For the 180 gr. Sierra, 48.0 gr. of the same powder with Winchester brass.
My preference is for the 165 gr. bullet, although the 180 is more accurate. but then, I'm usually hunting deer, not bear. Of all the deer taken witht he 165 gr. bullet, only one has been recovered. All the others had the bullet pass completely though the deer. No deer went more than thirty feet after being shot. it's a darn good load.
I also must be totally honest here. The RSI can be a temperamental rifle. certainly they are not the most accurate either, but they have a class that is all their own, being about the closest to a genuine Mannlicher-Schoenaur in feel I've been able to find. ( I had two which were stolen.) The loads mentioned have, so far, proven to be the most accurate from my three rifles. None of them like 180 gr. spitzers at all, producing patterns with every bullet I've tried. The 150 gr. bullets are 2.5-3.0" bullets at best, 180 gr. Spitzers 3.0=-4.0" at best. The 165 gr. Speer will do 1.25-1.50" consistantly and the 180 gr. Sierra round nose is the real winner at .75". Go figure.
Just find one of these rifles and pick it up. Swing it to your shoulder and try the feel. Believe me, you just might get hooked. Put a low power 2.5 or 3X scope on it and you'll be good to go. Mine have 1.75x6X Simmons Whitetail Expedition scopes on them at present. Not too bad a scope, but at least one was easily knocked out of zero when my wife fell in some rocks.
I'm thinking of dumping most of my variable scopes anyway. For most of my hunting, depending on the rifle a 3,4, or 6X scope will do just fine for 99 percent of the hunting I do.
Paul B.

[model 70]

when you say the 165 is more accurate, do you mean in just your rifle?

[Jack]

PJ, try some AA2520 powder with 165's in your 308.
In mine (18" bbl), H414 (same as 760) produced 2450 fps with a compressed load. AA2520 gives 2600 fps at similar pressure. Accuracy is about the same, maybe a hair better with 2520.
BTW, 2520 is a ball powder, as is 760 and 414.

[PJgunner]

Originally posted by model 70
when you say the 165 is more accurate, do you mean in just your rifle?

I have three of these rifles. What can I say, I like them a lot. :D

The 180 gr. Sierra round nose is the most accurate in all three rifles.

The 165 gr. Speer is the second most accurate in all three rifles, and does quite well in several other rifles I have chambered to the .308 Win.

The 150 gr. bullet is the third most accurate and the 180 gr. spitzer types, heck forget about them. :rolleyes:

This seems to be a pattern in all three Ruger 77 RSI rifles that I have. I haven't figured out why.
Paul B.

[hofts]

hows about the new ruger scout!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PJgunner]

Originally posted by Jack
PJ, try some AA2520 powder with 165's in your 308.
In mine (18" bbl), H414 (same as 760) produced 2450 fps with a compressed load. AA2520 gives 2600 fps at similar pressure. Accuracy is about the same, maybe a hair better with 2520.
BTW, 2520 is a ball powder, as is 760 and 414.

Jack. Another powder that is supposed to be great in the .308 is W-748. In fact, Winchester says it was developed expressly for the .308. Yet, although I can get higher velocity with W-748, accuracy totally sucks. :confused: I've tried just about all the powders that are said to be best for the .308 including both versions of 4895, the IMR's 4064, 4320, W-748, and RL-15. W-760 outshoots them all when it comes to groups. I've passed that load to others that have RSI's and they've all said accuracy was improved. I certainly don't have the answer on all this, but that's the way it's worked out.
I have no problem hunting with that load (165 gr.) for deer, black bear, hogs, or even elk if I can get within 200 yards or less of the elk. Even that 180 gr. RN would work just fine out to about 200 yards.
I'll have to look at that AA2520, but based on past history in those three rifles? Who knows.
Paul B.

[Jack]

PJ, I guess I got lucky...
First powder I ever tried for my 308 was 3031. The rifle grouped 1 and 1/2 inches (5 shots@100) with a peep sight and the old 165 partition with the relieved waist and the screw machine marks on it. I figured that was plenty good enough for woods ranges and never tried anything else for many years. Didn't have a chronograph in those days.
Got some 2520 about 10 years ago, and tried that along with H414.
BTW, 2520 is also the best powder I've found for the 8x57.
I think of 2520 as 'ball 4895' - it's very useful stuff.
For some reason or other, I've never used 748.

[8X56MS]

Sad, that so many folks these days, have not had the pleasure of taking a vintage Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine into the brush. In my humble opinion, no rifle since has captured the Mannlicher's combination of 'handiness', rapidity of action, and natural 'pointability'.
Even today, one of my old 8 X56, or 9 X 56 Mannlicher rifles is strong bear medicine. Works great on piggies and deer also.
The M-S carbine that goes most often with me to hunt heavy cover, is a 1908 Carbine, with double set triggers, and of course, the full length stock. I bought this old timer in bad shape. I had to replace the barrel, and had Harry McGowan make an exact duplicate. He chambered it in 8x57 Mauser. My long departed gunsmith worked some magic on the spool magazine, and it handles the Mauser cartridge like it was made for it. For those that have not tried to rework a M-S magazine to handle a different than original cartridge, its a task that takes skill, and the touch of an artisan.
This rifle comes up to the shoulder like a fine shotgun, and will shoot MOA at 100 yards, with my handloads.

[wesattul]

I built my "do-everything" rifle on a Win. Classic Featherweight. I installed a 20" .358 Win. bbl. and a Burris 1 3/4x5 scope. The whole thing is really light and handy. It is pleasant to shoot and devastating on whatever I shoot with it.

[Ridge Runner]

I've chased them since 1978, carried about anykind of rifle I could from a rem 660, 350 rem mag to a TC contendor in 375 JDJ.
I've setted on an AR-15 for whacking bears.
Its a 20" flat-top chambered in 458 SOCOM (basicly a twin to the 45/70 or 450 marlin) with a TC 1.5x5. The 300 gr. Hornady's @ 2200 fps seems to ruin they're day. The gun feed, functions, and handles wonderfully.
RR

[DogYeller]

I'm getting in this thread pretty late but I have almost what model 70 described except for the scope it now has a 4x12 Sportview. I bought my 700 ADL 30-06 when they were $150 at J.C. Pennys. I cut down the barrel and installed a fiberglass stock when I lived in Hawaii. The brush was too thick for a full-length barrel and the humidity would cause the wood stock to swell. It's still my 1st choice for deer.

[rem 700]

I'm gonna have to say a Remington mod. 7 in 308 would be great for black bear in quick handling situations. "Compact" and easy to move quickly. Still quite capable out to 400yds on deer sized game, too.

[hnter]

I've got a Great one!
A Marlin .450 lever.
But if I were going to buy another "brush gun" today and resonable (low) price was a consideration, I buy one of the 45/70 rifles being made on surplus brit SMLE actions. Cheap, powerful and plenty accurate for so called brush gun ranges.

Gibbs Rifle Co I believe


Hnter

[wrenchman]

I like the model 7 and they do make a cheeper version like a adl
with a hard wood stock and not as deep polish blue.
The 308 is as good as any round for what you are wanting to do with it .

[PJgunner]

8x56MS. I hear you on the mannlicher carbines and their hadleablity. :D I had rwo model 1903 carbins that some low life stole from my vehicle while I was getting gas and taking a whiz break. That was in Elko nevada and I was on the way home from my annual deer hunt.
I've kept looking for a decent replacement, but the prices hace gotten so outrageoulsy high that you'd think they were made out of gasoline. Guy want $1,500 for one that looked like it had been in both world wars and lost both times.
I went to the Ruger RSI rifles. Mine just all happen to be chambered to the .308 Winchester. They are the older push feed version which I prefer over the later Mark II. As I mention earlier, they are a bit fussy to load for, but they come very close to the Mannlicher-Schoenaur in feel. At least the ones I have do. :cool:
I really screwed up about a year ago. Guy had an M-S in 8x58, the carbine, and I wasn't sure if it had a .318" bore or a .323" bore so I passed on it. I lloked it up when I got home and damn! A .323" bore. I'm still kicking myself. $800 and the bore was mint. The wood was a bit on the well used side, but a trip to my friendly and expensive gunsmith would have taken care of that problem. (I could have done most of the wood work myself, but it was the checkering I'm afraid to mess with.)
Paul B.