45 colt shot load?

[GoodOlBoy]

Thinking about buying some of the speer CCI shot cups for the 45 colt. Anybody got a good load for these for a ruger blackhawk?

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

They print load data right on the container, usually. At least they used to with the .38 and .44 kinds.

General tip, though: do not try for high velocity. It just ruins the pattern. Load light. For example, the data on the box for .44 Special calls for 7 grains of Unique, but I got MUCH better results with 5.0 grains.

[GoodOlBoy]

ah kinda like those two ball loads I never got around to trying?

What kind of range do you get on them (I know short range, but effectivley against snakes, etc)?

Thanks Rocky

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

Rocky is right about the unique loads. I used the same as he did in shortened 44 mag case and they worked just fine. I also found that the best size shot to use is 8 1/2 They kill big snakes at 10-15 ft. 9's don't do so well and the 8's and 7 1/2's while having plenty of punch at a little longer range just don't seem to have enough pellets to make a good killing pattern. I also tried some shot loads using a gas check on the bottom(next to the powder) and one crimped on the top of the shot. Hard to get 'em crimped but they seemed to work ok. Them gas checks are dangerous for a right good ways though. I had an old Army officer give me an old Colt 1901 Army model 38 LC years ago.. He gave me some loaded shot cartridges with the darn thing and they have card wad on top. Shoot good too even if they are 40 yrs old. Hey...a card wad on top of a 45 case would work if you sealed it with a little wax I'll bet.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thanks skeet, I will probably stick with the CCI capsules (er however ya speel 'em) and probably just rob some cheap winchester shotgun ammo fer the shot (Can get it for $2.95 a box round abouts usually).

Was thinking about #6s but glad you warned me about the pattern, think I will stick with the 7 1/2 or 8s. BTW any use in keeping the powder out of the shells I rob?

GoodOlBoy

[skeet]

As far as the powder...In a word...Since ya don't know what it is..NO! Seriously though. Yopu cvan get a bag of shot for 15 bucks or there about. Heck if I hadda known I woulda sent ya some shot with them cases.

[Rocky Raab]

A buddy of mine gave me a pickle relish jar of #9 shot (he's a trapshooter) and I haven't even made a dent in that half-pound or so. Ask around.

I've gotten decent patterns out to about 15 feet. Past that and they have more air than shot. Plan on the pattern enlarging about an inch for every foot of range and you've about nailed it. There simply isn't enough shot to get a killing density beyond 15 feet.

[BILLY D.]

HEY ROCKY

THINK IT WOULD DO ANY GOOD TO BUFFER THE SHOT OR WOULD IT JUST TAKE UP TOO MUCH ROOM. I WONDER IF IT WOULD HELP SHOT PATTERNS?

[Gil Martin]

I loaded up a bunch of .44 Magnum shotshells for a buddy. He swears they were very effective on killing skunks that kept coming into his yard at night. He must have been overrun because I was kept busy rolling out shot capsule reloads using 7 1/2 shot.

I used .38 Special shot capsule to dispatch a squirrel that was running around in circles in my front yard. Later I took out a cat they appeared to have rabies. Finally. a neighbor asked me to dispatch a large white duck that was pecking his duck and doing some real damage. The shot capsule at 15 feet killed that duck as if he was struck by lightening. I have a lot of respect for shot capsules from a handgun. All the best...
Gil

[BILLY D.]

GOB

THIS MONTHS HANDLOADER MAGAZINE HAS SHOTSHELL LOADS FOR 45. www.handloadermagazine.com. HOPE THAT HELPS YA OUT.

[skeet]

The reason for the terrible patterns at any extended range is mainly because the rifling in the bbl makes the shot spin out into a wide pattern quickly. I have a smooth bore 22 that shoots great? patterns with the little shot cartridges. Remington and Mossberg both made smooth bore 22's that they used to break clay targets with. They were named(appropriately) Mo-skee-to targets. even had little traps that mounted on the guns. Colt made a few smooth bore SAA's for the cowboy shows like Buffalo Bill Cody had. Couldn't shoot 44 or 45 bulleted rounds in a tent or a city ya know

[skeet]

I even have a couple of boxes of Remington 45 auto shot cartridges. Crimped like the old 22 shot cartridges. Neat and operate a target 45 auto(light spring)

[Jack]

Lotsa good advice in this thread.
Been my observation that short barreled pistols seem to pattern shot loads better than long barrels. Could be idiosyynchrasies of the pistols I've used shot loads in, tho.
I fully agree with using small shot, like #9, and not trying to get high velocity.
I find shot loads very useful.

[GoodOlBoy]

Thanks for all the advice. Billy D you can be sure I will hit up the local hastings (Local to work not to home :p ) this afternoon and see if it has that issue for sure!

Anybody ever played with putting buckshot in there just for grins? I know that comes close to that two ball load we talked about Rocky, and it probably don't work as well, but I was just curious.

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

If you could get exactly the right size shot, so that it could be hand-packed in the capsule, it would work, sorta. Pack them in layers, three pellets per layer (exactly like 12 ga OO buck loads) and you might get 15 pellets in there. That's not a lot to hit something with.

I'd actually trust the two-ball load a lot more. For those coming in late, my two-ball load uses two pure lead muzzleloader balls .454" diameter seated over 5.0 of Unique in the 45 Colt. lightly crimp the top ball right at its equator, and you can rub a ring of bullet lube between the two balls.

Oh, and the short-barrel thing? Most guesses are that the slick plastic capsule "slides" a ways up the bore before the rifling starts to grip it. So a short barrel spins it less, and therefore patterns better. It seems to work, whatever the reason. My 3" Bulldog .44 fires a really good pattern - no hole in the middle as a spinning shot load seems to make.

[GoodOlBoy]

Wonder if a 44 capsule would work better in a 45 because you wouldn't have as much touching the rifleing or if that would just cause blow by problems. . . . . hrmm

GoodOlBoy

[Jack]

Rocky, I think you're exactly right as to why the short barrel works better. And the 44 Bulldog is a great little shot thrower.
GOB, I'd guess a 44 capsule would not work out too well in a 45 pistol, and I dunno how you'd crimp a .429 capsule in a 45 case with a mouth opening around .452......
Besides, the 45 capsule oughta hold more shot, and the more shot you can stuff into a pistol shot load, the better.
A 44 shot load gives a much denser pattern than a 38 shot load, and 45 oughta be better yet.

[GoodOlBoy]

Figured as much, but I was just wonderin. BTW I picked up that handloader mag at lunch (Couldn't wait ya know how it goes) and that is a purty darned good article.

Now to order some components, etc.

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

If you can find one, a steel-cased 45 ACP makes a great wad cutter to make those over-shot wads. Drill out the primer flash hole so you can poke a nail in and shove out the cut wads, sharpen the mouth of the case and you're done. Just set it on a sheet of thin cardboard (tablet backing or wax milk carton is ideal) and tap with a rubber mallet. Do three or four, then shove them out with the nail.

I use three wads over the powder, then the shot and a single wad in my non-capsule shot loads. Then run a ring of hot glue to seal. But that was before those capsules were available.

BTW, I've also used regular .410 shotshells cut to cylinder length for 45 Colt shotshells. Works great in Uberti guns, but they won't chamber in a Ruger due to the rim diameter.

[Jack]

If ya want the perfect material for those wads, you already have it- it's those cardboard sleeves that primers come in:D
I use them in 45 ACP shot loads that I make- works great, and I always have some saved primer sleeves around.

[GoodOlBoy]

Well I did the cheatin thing and ordered a batch of the casuples made by CCI/Speer.

We shall see how it goes!

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

GOB and all.

One final tip besides the load light and use small shot in a short barrel:

After you apply a medium crimp to the capsule (too much will break it!), apply a drop of super glue to the capsule at the case neck. That's the best way to keep the thing seated under recoil, and it seems to have no adverse effects. Might even improve the pattern, unless I'm just examining them with wishful lenses in my glasses!

[GoodOlBoy]

Rocky what about nail polish? I have heard that some use it to seal primers, was wondering if it would work for that as well.

Just curious

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

It'd probably work fine - and you might glue your fingers to the cartridge less often, too! ;)

[Jack]

Interesting.....
I've never used anything other than the crimp to keep the shot capsules in place, and have had no trouble with breakage or the capsules creeping. Maybe I been lucky.
GOB, before I used anything (other than Rocky's proven super glue) as a sealant, I'd test it on one capsule to make sure it didn't react with the plastic in the capsule.

[Cossack]

Mike Ventorino just had an extrensive article in one of my gun rags on this. He got the very best results with 12 shot (yes, 12). He then used Unique, about 5 grains, and 2 gas checks. One was loaded over the powder with the base up, into which went the shot nearly to the top of the case. No buller needed. The top gas check was loaded base down and crimped. He used a caliber or two smaller throat belling die to seat the gas checks. The results were apparently awsome on snakes and target potatoes (litterly blew them apart) at 10 feet or so. The charge of smaller shot really rattled the snakes nervous systems, much more effectively than larger shot.
The hard part apparently is getting the size 12 shot.
My 45/.410 Contender does the trick using 7.5 or 9 shot 410 shells, with a lot longer range.
But if I ever find the 12 shot, my Black Hawk will be put to the test.

[Rocky Raab]

Ballistic Products has #10, 11 and 12 shot (out of #12 right now) in ten-pound bags for $20.

Maybe some of you guys would go in on a bag and split it up, huh? Shipping would be the main pain.

[Cossack]

Thanks for the tip Rocky. Too bad Utah is so far away from Minnesota. I'm thinking about "biting the bullet" so to speak on shipping. Loading 'em sounds like too much fun to miss out on.

[Cossack]

The article I cited above is in the April 05 issue of Handloader magazine. It calls for (9) grains of Unique, not as I stated from recall.

[GoodOlBoy]

Yup I have read that one, good article.

GoodOlBoy