PhilLozano
04-03-2005, 04:37 PM
Dear Members and Guests,
As I am getting ready for my up coming season, and in the process of working with a new agent, I was telling him one very important thing.
It came to me, I should mention this on the forum as well.
Our U.S. Fish and Wildlife is pursuing legal cases against hunters that return from other countries (even State to State violations). There is this little thing called the 'Lacey Act'. If you hunt, you should know about this. If there was any kind of law broken in the pursuit of the animal being hunted, you will be in a Federal Court, defending yourself.
Might sound like B.S., but it is true.
If you have hunted with someone that is not licensed in the Country/State/Province you hunted in (might sound like it won't happen, but it does) you could end up in U.S. Federal Court. If you booked a hunt with someone and they themselves cannot or do not get the proper work permits, P.H. licenses etc. to hunt there, you will be in violation.
For sure, ANY hunting trip you take out of the country, you should ask to see the licenses of the person you are hunting with. It might sound redundant, and be a bit embarassing for you to ask the Booking Agent and/or the Professional Hunter to produce them, but if you don't, you might wish you had later.
To all Booking Agents, Outfitters and Professional Hunters, I would say, if a client were to ask you for your revelant licenses, you should not take it as an insult. The client is just protecting themselves and their trophies.
For me, in Tanzania, I provide all my Agents and clients with a copy of my P.H. License, TALA (business license) and Resident permit every year. For the clients, I provide a copy of the hunting license as well. These are Government documents saying I am Licensed by the Tanzanian Government to work in Tanzania and that I am duly licensed and complying with the laws of Tanzania to operate as a Professional Hunter. Granted, in the 10 years I have been a Professional Hunter in Tanzania, the Government has not issued a ' P.H. License' as such. They issue a 'Provisional License', which IS your P.H. license (I have heard this is to change, but we will see), , these licenses along with the client hunting license prove the client was legally hunting with all revelant hunting licenses issued by the Tanzanian Government.
A few examples of Lacey Act violations:
1) A client brings his son on a hunt. His son shoots an animal. The animal is taken as a trophy (skinned and prepared for a taxidermist). It is shipped back to the U.S.. Unless a hunting license and all revelant fees were paid for the son to shoot the animal, it is a violation of the Lacey Act.
2) If you book a hunt with a person that cannot obtain the proper licenses or is not legally licensed in the country he is hunting, all the trophies will be in violation if you actually hunted with that person. For instance, a booking agent comes along with their clients and they have been working with the Outfitter for X years and know the Outfitter well. So he brings a client and as the hunt progresses the Agent says, "Hey, I want to guide my client on one species", well, if it happens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . WHAM ! BUSTED. You have just violated a U.S. Federal Law, if that trophy gets shipped back to the U.S. for importation, if the Agent was not duly licensed in that country.
3) As to my knowledge (which means I am not 100% sure, now), you must be a Citizen to hold a P.H. license in South Africa. So if you are booking through a P.H. that lives here in the States, just ask to see his license. If they are properly licensed, the license will be in their name, not a company name, I believe (they are in Tanzania), not sure about S.A and the rest of the countries. But I believe it would be the same.
Think it cannot happen to you ?
Best think again. It happened to a Weatherby Award winner. It cost him more than $100,000.00 (a lot more!) by the time it was all said and done.
Mostly this happens with P.H.'s that hunt outside of their own Country. Most common places for this to happen are Zimbabwe, Tanzania, South Africa and Zambia (most of the operators in those countries are law abiding, but not all).
It has happened in Canada as well.
1 hunter (client) was sentenced to 4 months home confinement, 2 years probation, had to hand over his rifle, fined $10,000.00 in one Court, had to pay restitution of $20,000.00 and almost $6,000.00 in another Court. Additionally he was banned from hunting for 5 years.
Other hunters: $30K fine, 6 year ban on hunting and his rifle. 2 others got off with an $18,000.00 fine.
So, if you book a hunt with ANYBODY, just ask them if they are duly licensed in that Country/State/Province. Then make them prove it to you. Better to lose your deposit (some countries like Tanzania will not issue the permits for the coming season before a certain date), than have your whole hunt and trophies confiscated as evidence, and you end up in court.
When you ask the Outfitter if he is duly licensed, he should not get upset, and if he does, perhaps you should look elsewhere. At the very least, he should be able to show you LAST season's licenses or Resident permit, business licenses etc. (but is still not concrete proof he is licensed for the coming season).
Ok, not to harp on this anymore.
If you have any questions, I am not a lawyer, but I do have some information.
Thanks for letting me ramble again.
Best regards,
Phil
As I am getting ready for my up coming season, and in the process of working with a new agent, I was telling him one very important thing.
It came to me, I should mention this on the forum as well.
Our U.S. Fish and Wildlife is pursuing legal cases against hunters that return from other countries (even State to State violations). There is this little thing called the 'Lacey Act'. If you hunt, you should know about this. If there was any kind of law broken in the pursuit of the animal being hunted, you will be in a Federal Court, defending yourself.
Might sound like B.S., but it is true.
If you have hunted with someone that is not licensed in the Country/State/Province you hunted in (might sound like it won't happen, but it does) you could end up in U.S. Federal Court. If you booked a hunt with someone and they themselves cannot or do not get the proper work permits, P.H. licenses etc. to hunt there, you will be in violation.
For sure, ANY hunting trip you take out of the country, you should ask to see the licenses of the person you are hunting with. It might sound redundant, and be a bit embarassing for you to ask the Booking Agent and/or the Professional Hunter to produce them, but if you don't, you might wish you had later.
To all Booking Agents, Outfitters and Professional Hunters, I would say, if a client were to ask you for your revelant licenses, you should not take it as an insult. The client is just protecting themselves and their trophies.
For me, in Tanzania, I provide all my Agents and clients with a copy of my P.H. License, TALA (business license) and Resident permit every year. For the clients, I provide a copy of the hunting license as well. These are Government documents saying I am Licensed by the Tanzanian Government to work in Tanzania and that I am duly licensed and complying with the laws of Tanzania to operate as a Professional Hunter. Granted, in the 10 years I have been a Professional Hunter in Tanzania, the Government has not issued a ' P.H. License' as such. They issue a 'Provisional License', which IS your P.H. license (I have heard this is to change, but we will see), , these licenses along with the client hunting license prove the client was legally hunting with all revelant hunting licenses issued by the Tanzanian Government.
A few examples of Lacey Act violations:
1) A client brings his son on a hunt. His son shoots an animal. The animal is taken as a trophy (skinned and prepared for a taxidermist). It is shipped back to the U.S.. Unless a hunting license and all revelant fees were paid for the son to shoot the animal, it is a violation of the Lacey Act.
2) If you book a hunt with a person that cannot obtain the proper licenses or is not legally licensed in the country he is hunting, all the trophies will be in violation if you actually hunted with that person. For instance, a booking agent comes along with their clients and they have been working with the Outfitter for X years and know the Outfitter well. So he brings a client and as the hunt progresses the Agent says, "Hey, I want to guide my client on one species", well, if it happens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . WHAM ! BUSTED. You have just violated a U.S. Federal Law, if that trophy gets shipped back to the U.S. for importation, if the Agent was not duly licensed in that country.
3) As to my knowledge (which means I am not 100% sure, now), you must be a Citizen to hold a P.H. license in South Africa. So if you are booking through a P.H. that lives here in the States, just ask to see his license. If they are properly licensed, the license will be in their name, not a company name, I believe (they are in Tanzania), not sure about S.A and the rest of the countries. But I believe it would be the same.
Think it cannot happen to you ?
Best think again. It happened to a Weatherby Award winner. It cost him more than $100,000.00 (a lot more!) by the time it was all said and done.
Mostly this happens with P.H.'s that hunt outside of their own Country. Most common places for this to happen are Zimbabwe, Tanzania, South Africa and Zambia (most of the operators in those countries are law abiding, but not all).
It has happened in Canada as well.
1 hunter (client) was sentenced to 4 months home confinement, 2 years probation, had to hand over his rifle, fined $10,000.00 in one Court, had to pay restitution of $20,000.00 and almost $6,000.00 in another Court. Additionally he was banned from hunting for 5 years.
Other hunters: $30K fine, 6 year ban on hunting and his rifle. 2 others got off with an $18,000.00 fine.
So, if you book a hunt with ANYBODY, just ask them if they are duly licensed in that Country/State/Province. Then make them prove it to you. Better to lose your deposit (some countries like Tanzania will not issue the permits for the coming season before a certain date), than have your whole hunt and trophies confiscated as evidence, and you end up in court.
When you ask the Outfitter if he is duly licensed, he should not get upset, and if he does, perhaps you should look elsewhere. At the very least, he should be able to show you LAST season's licenses or Resident permit, business licenses etc. (but is still not concrete proof he is licensed for the coming season).
Ok, not to harp on this anymore.
If you have any questions, I am not a lawyer, but I do have some information.
Thanks for letting me ramble again.
Best regards,
Phil