.264 Win Mag

[bosveldjag]

I am in the process of having a tailor made .264 Win Mag manufactured in South Africa by Truvelo for specific use on long distance shots on springbuck, blesbuck and swartwildebeest - all plains game, lots of open spaces and little bush coverage.
Some of the specifications are: 1:9" twist and a 27" barrel length.

Anybody used this type of rifle successfully under similar hunting conditions?
More detail on bullet types, loads, etc. would also be appreciated.

[Rocky Raab]

Can't help with your question, but I do want to welcome you to HuntChat.

Come to think of it, maybe I can help a bit.

With that twist rate, I'd guess that you'll be well served with bullets in the 140-gr range. Powder choice is easy: IMR7828 was the powder in original factory loads, and it's still a good choice. The new Short Cut version of 7828 may be even better.

Other super-slow powders that should work well are Retumbo, Big Boy, AA 8700 and RL25. Norma MRP also fills the bill if you can find any.

[BILLY D.]

HELLO

NOT TO CONFUSE THE SUBJECT BUT IF IT WERE ME I THINK I WOULD BUILD A 6,5X68. IT'S AN OLD CARTRIDGE AND WITH MODERN POWDERS I THINK IT WOULD BLOW THE DOORS OFF A 264 WIN MAG.

IV'E HEARD IT'S USED EXTENSIVELY IN EUROPE SO COMPONENTS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE.

JUST A THOUGHT.

[bosveldjag]

Thanks Bill, but the idea is here to have a gun made with which one can shoot accurately over long distances - up to 600 meters and more is the norm for the plain's game mentioned.

By using a premium type of bullet one certainly doesn't want toBLOW THE DOORS OFF.
My motto is to kill the hunted animal as effectively as possible with the minimum meat damage.:)

[Rocky Raab]

Hey bos,

enlighten us a bit on your (I think) Afrikaans screen name. I can deduce that the "veldjag" part means "plains hunt" but what does the "bos" mean? Something like chief or head?

So the screen name would mean "Head plains hunter"?

Or am I completely off the mark?

[Downwindtracker2]

I have finally got a load,thanks to John Barness.I used his Handloader article as a starting point.Understand my rifle chambering is different than his factory Westerner,more throat.So I will not give how many grains I used,these rifles can be tricky enough.This is my second barrel,a Douglas, on this '68 FN ,it was a NIB.The first barrel,the FN, walked and was all lands,too high a friction barrel for a touchy cartridge.

The bullet I used was 140 SST,a boat-tail,for less barrel friction.In .308 180gr they have been very accurate for me.

H-1000,my lot acted more like H-4831 with the FN barrel,it spiked and popped a primer at the starting load,even at lower loading it wasn't as consistant as IMR-7828 .

N-560,nice and consistant in the walking barrel,targets could be layed on top of each other.With the second barrel velocity topped out at 3050,next loading of one more grain 3050.I thought I better try something else.

IMR-7828 give the velocity,but not enough accuracy for a long range rifle.

Rl-25,I got the velocity (3150) but it didn't group And each shot went faster in the groups,likely from barrel heat.

Retumbo at 3150 it didn't group,and it seemed a bit high on pressure.My primer radius was a little less.Both Mag-Pro and Ramshot Magnum were more promising.

Mag-Pro,I got the velocity and the second best groupings.It may work for you.With my lots of powders,it was one grain faster than Ramshot Magnum.

Ramshot Magnum,I got 3200,half rounded primers,and under MOA with two touching.What more could you ask for.It was sure hard to find Ramshot Magnum in Canada.Rayner-Shine had it at the Kamloops gunshow.

I hope this helps other 264 club members.

--------------------
You can hunt longer with the wind at your back

[bosveldjag]

To: Rocky -
'Bosveldjag' is actually a combination of two standalone entities to create a new word with a different meaning!
I.e. 'bosveld' = 'bushveld' which is a typical lowveld area in South Africa covered by many types of indegenous trees, shrubs and grasses.
Then 'jag' = 'hunt'.
Put together results in 'bosveldjag' meaning therefor a hunt in a bushy area called locally bushveld. ('veld' = plains or open area in the wild where animals roam freely.)
Sorry for this lengthy explanation, but I'm not a language expert at all!

The obvious question would now be: 'Why a .264 Win Mag if the hunt is taking place in a bushy area?'
In SA we also have open, grassy plains where very little or no bush coverage is available and that is where the mentioned species roam leading to the need for a long distance rifle for relatively small to medium type of game.

To: Downwindtracker2 -

Thanks for the info, I will later report on what I am planning to use on loadings and bullet type.

[Rocky Raab]

Hmm, I was closer than I thought.

I'm a student of language (a darn poor one!) and simply love etymology. Thanks.

ps, I forgot this in my earlier post: Ramshot renamed their Big Boy powder "Magnum" because there was confusion with their other powder called Big Game. Magnum is the one for the 264 - if you can get it in RSA>

[Downwindtracker2]

I doubt Handloader is easy to find in SA.And his posts to the 264 cult.So I will recap Johns choice of 140 bullets and it's use. He likes Speer,so he used their 140 in his tests and hunting. He shot a couple of deer with it,one under a 100m ,the other at 250m.Both times the bullet exited with a exit wound the size of a "silver dollar" with very little meat damage.

I have the Winchester handout when the 264 was introduced.It was designed around the 140.They felt the long range performace of the 140 made it the best choice.

I had such bad time with the FN barrel,I choose a BT.

John Barness powder results are very similar to mine,he too chose Ramshot Magnum with Accurate Mag-Pro second.By the "Made in SA" on the bottom I think Mag-Pro is made by SoChem. Ramshot is a made in Belgium.

I use my 264 to hunt Mule deer in large logging clear-cuts.

[Evan03]

looks to me like the 270wsm does all the 264 does without the fuss.

it was pretty good rifle for me and didnt take long to push 140gr slugs acuratly to above 3100fps might have been closer to 3200. i dont have chrony so i couldnt say for sure.

[bosveldjag]

I'm planning to use the following in this .264 Win Mag:

Powder S365
Start load in grains 59
Max. load speed 3650
or


Powder H4831
Start load in grains 65
Max. load speed 3650


These are SA powders ( don't know what US eqv. are)
(NB My re-loading friend helps me with the technical details on all this!)
Bullet type: 264095HV.134 (95gr solid)
BC .435 G5
Only Magnum primers are used with these loads.

For more detail on this bullet type
visit [URL=http://www.gscustom.co.za/[/URL]

It is a premium quality monolithic bullet manufactured in South Africa and used with great success worldwide.

[Evan03]

im starting to form opions on caliber here that maybe dont go with your way of thinking, but there are alot of other standerd calibers that will fling 85-100gr bullets from 3400-3700 dependiong bullet weight and caliber.

even the standerd 06 case can shoot light bullets pretty good, the case is not belted and the action is smaller.

a 6mm/06 would fit the bill, even standerd 270win pushn 90gr bullets might get close to 3700fps the 2506 will come right to 3700 mark pushn 85 bullets and only lose about 200fps when loaded with 100gr bullets.

chances are the 270 2506 and even 3006 facotry ammo is pretty abundant over there.

im just not real hot on the 264 not when there are alot of other calibers that throw light bullets just as well. now if that thing was pushn 140s that fast then wed be talkin.

isnt the 264 a 6.5mm call???? im not positive

this is just my opion. im sure the 264 will turn out just the way you want it to.

Evan

[USMCDEVILDOG]

My last client carried a 264 win mag. It was a stainless synthetic BDL with a 26" barrel. He killed a 33" Aoudad at 358 yards, shooting factory 140 grain core-lokt. It was a one shot kill that broke both shoulders and exited. I was very surprised how little the core-lokt opened up.

[bosveldjag]

isnt the 264 a 6.5mm call???? im not positive

Correct. So is the .270 the only geniune 7mm.
7mm rem Mag for instance is actually a .284 - thus actually a 7.026mm!

The .264 Win Mag has proved itself as being extremely accurate and also having deadly killing power.

[Rapier]

bosveldjag

I was just reading your post. I happen to be a 6.5 nut and have been since about 1960.

The 264 WM custom gun is an excellent choice for your needs and the bullet you selected should do just fine on the smaller, thin-skinned plains game. The barrel length at 27 inches should be fine, dead in the middle of 26 VS 28, either of which work well in a 264 WM. The only thing I would consider changing, were it my rifle, is the twist. The 1-9 twist is accurate, say .25 to .5 groups. However, in my experiance the real accurate twist, for a 6.5, down into sub .100 territory is the 1-8. The 8 twist will handle bullets from 85 grains up to and including the 160s, with ease. The 85-100 grain bullets should shoot sub .100 in the 1-8. Velocity into the 3500 - 3700 range is also no problem for the 1-8 twist.

I would also consider the barrel be made in a stainless, heavy sporter or magnum sporter, fluted. The combination will give you medium weight, stiffness and surface area for cooling. The case capacity, caliber combination, will get a barrel hot quick. The stainless will resist erosion about as well as you can expect.

If you still do not have the barrel selected, I would suggest a Lothar Walther stainless, magnum sporter, computer lapped, match barrel. I have used this same barrel on my last dozen rifles and really like them.
Good Luck with your rifle.
Ed

[thirty06]

Gidday Bosveldjag,

How goes the licencing of your 264 winmag. Still waiting on the beaurocrats I'll wager. Glad we don't have those problems here. I'm hanging out to here how it performs on the plains game at long range.

As I said on another thread I think with a 24" barrel it would be perfect alpine cartridge and am looking for my next project.

Also think it would make a devastating bunny/hare buster with 85 - 100 gr projectiles.

Has anyone else tried this cartridge for varminting?

[Rapier]

Gidday thirty06,
6.5 nut back again. The 264 really does need a 26-inch barrel as it has a lot of powder that burns in the barrel. Winchester published all of the data with a 26-inch barrel then promptly dropped the factory barrel to 24 inches. If you reduce the barrel length on a 264 to 24 inches you might as well go with the 6.5x06 or the 6.5x284. Either of the smaller capacity cartridges will just about duplicate the 264 in a 24-inch and burn about 1/3 less powder in the process.

The 6.5x06 will do 3,700 with an 85gr Sierra and the effect on a bunny or chuck size critter is, let's say, extreme. The impact sounds like a second shot.

Ed

[bosveldjag]

Rapier,

Thanks for the feedback, especially the 1-8 twist makes a lot of sense to me.

Due to the fact that it takes ages to get a license under our new Firearms Control Act in South Africa, there is still more than enough time to finally decide on barrel type - appreciate your input.

Seeing that you are 6.5 man, could you tell me more about the following:

Never knew there is something like a 6.5 Rem Mag!

Can you perhaps tell what is the difference between the 6.5 Rem Mag and the .264 (6.5mm) Win Mag:
Cartridge wise as well as
performance wise with the same weight bullet?

Is it simply different makes of exactly the same thing or is there more to it?

thirty06 -
Still in process. The local Central Firearms Registry told me last week 2006 is not far off anymore!!!
They are killeing our firearm industry with this new act.

[Rapier]

The 6.5 Rem Mag and 246 Win Mag are two different cats, entirely.

The 6.5 Rem has a case capacity of 68 grains of water, same as the 6.5x284 or 6.5x06. The 264 Win Mag has a case capacity of 82 grains.

The 6.5 Remington was designed for use in a short action, specifically the 600 Remington. However, Remington, God love them, can get things about as wrong, by accident, as anyone could, on purpose.

Due to the long 6.5 bullets and in order to feed in the magazine, the 600 action requires that all but the lightest bullets be seated deep into the case, well past the neck. Thus loaded the pressures are erratic and the accuracy drops off. What you end up with is something like a 260 with a belt that does not shoot .25 inch groups.

Were it not for the 264 Win Mag, the 6.5 Rem Magnum chambered in a long action would be a premier cartridge. As it is, it will probably become a footnote in history.

[Downwindtracker2]

It looks like they took a page from us in Canada,our's takes a couple of months to get Possession Acquisition licence,a firearm safety test and a couple of references.But woe to you if you have a vindictive ex.

But it sure has knocked the stuffings out of the used rifle market,for a while the old " 303 in the closet " were being given away.As it is now,a nice sporter 303 is under $100 in gun shops.

That's how I got into 264WM, a "as new" FN (it was unfired) $425CDN

[bosveldjag]

Thanks again Rapier, I'm so glad I didn't even know about the 6.5mm Rem Mag now that I know what the differences are!

I'll stick to my .264WM at all costs.

Downwindtracker2 -

Ye, they must have taken all your pages PLUS!!!

Apart from that our local CFR (Central Firearms Registry) has due to bad admin procedures, a backlog of thousands of new applications, appeal board cases and license renewal applications to handle.

Só hopefully sometime in the future I'll see my new .264WM.

Will keep you posted if you will just be patient with me thru all this!

[thirty06]

Gidday Guys

thanks for the input about the barrel length on the 264 winmag there Rapier. I have always had a thing about the idea of a 6.5-06. You see i have heard that the magnum cartridges are just a lot of noise until you go to heavy for calibre projectiles and now when you say that you get nothing until you have the longer barrel it has sort of made up my mind for an alpine rifle. 6.5-06 it is.

The magnum would be good for alpine work if I could get away with a 24" barrel but I don't need the extra length getting hung up when I am crawling around an ice face looking for tahr or chamois. Also either of these are knocked over with 140 gr hot cors in the boiler room. At the moment I am using the 30-06 which handles the job easily but when you drop down the hill a bit you run across wallabies and bunnies and hares who need to be shot as well and it may be that an 85gr hollow point is the answer.

Hey Evan03 maybe this would outperform your 25-06. Would love the oportunity to try and see which would be the better on a tough animal like tahr. A friend of mine uses a 25-06 on them and it took him 5 shots to drop one at 432 metres measured with a leica 900 rf two weeks ago.

Maybe you should come over and show him how its done. I'm sure you would have a great time. Just stirring it up

Regards Hamish

[kailua custom]

Dear Jagter,
I have hunted all over with the 264 Win and it`s never let me down. I use H-870 almost exclusivly. Several reasons.
1. Fills the cae.
2. Lower pressure in the higher temps. Not so temp sensitive.
3. Excellent accuracy!
4. Ball powder I think[?] helps barrel life.
My pet load for hot climates has been 74.3/H-870-140 Sierra Gameking. Sub MOA accuracy, good, fast-clean kills and minimal meat damage. Try and find something that burns like a yule log, is a BALL powder and you should do fine. Accurate 8700 and Vita Vouri 170 are vey close but remember!! My load and these other powders will require working up in your OWN rifle under YOUR conditions. Be careful and work up gradually to the max[accuracy] in your rifle. My own 264 rifles all have 1-10 twist and this alone will give less pressure than your 1-9.

Aloha, Mark