Discharge at gunshow!

[TheeBadOne]

No charges from accidental shooting at ExpoMart gun show

Monroeville police don't plan to file any charges in relation to a shooting that took place on Saturday at a gun show at the ExpoMart.
The shooting appeared to be accidental, according to police.

They said that at about 11:25 a.m., John Hannah, a 61-year-old resident of Tipton and vendor at the show, handed a 9-mm semi-automatic handgun to John Bogesdorfer, 61, of Monroeville, a visitor at the show.

While in Bogesdorfer's hands, the gun went off and hit Walter Gladowski, 65, of Monroeville, in the shin, even though guns on display at such shows are not supposed to be loaded.

Gladowski, who was standing about 32 feet away from Bogesdorfer when the gun went off, was taken to Mercy Hospital, treated and released. His injury was not life-threatening, police said.

Monroeville police concluded the shooting was accidental because Bogesdorfer and Gladowski didn't know each other.


:eek:

web page (http://www.gatewaynewspapers.com/timesexpress/news/46968/)

[VinVega]

So the gun just went off? That's neat, no gun's ever gone off on me without me pulling the trigger...

That said, this article makes it sound like it's ok to shoot someone so long as you don't know them...:rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by VinVega
That said, this article makes it sound like it's ok to shoot someone so long as you don't know them...

"Howdy stranger!" BLAM! :D

[Rocky Raab]

No, it just means the police won't charge the shooter with a criminal offense.

But two other things are almost sure to result from this event:

One: the wounded guy will sue the bejeezus out of the shooter, the dealer, the facility and the gun show promoter. He'll win.

Two: the gun show's insurance company will cancel not only that promoter's insurance, but will likely cease insuring ANY gun show promoter.

For about two years now, the last insurance company willing to carry gun show liability has said, "One more and we cancel all gun show policies."

Without that insurance, no promoter could risk holding a show, and no venue will allow one to be held on its grounds. And that my friends means the end of gun shows.

[TheeBadOne]

"One: the wounded guy will sue the bejeezus out of the shooter, the dealer, the facility and the gun show promoter."
http://www.mambers.com/images/smilies/jason/deal2.gif


"Two: the gun show's insurance company will cancel not only that promoter's insurance, but will likely cease insuring ANY gun show promoter. "
http://www.alamak.com/i/worried.gif

[fabsroman]

Rocky is right about the guy suing the guy who pulled the trigger, the owner of the gun, etc. Thing is, it really depends on what the guy's injuries are as to how much money he will get. If the bullet merely grazed him, he isn't going to get much.

Now, if the bullet shattered bone and surgery was required, he will get a pile of money. If an infection results from the surgery, his attorney will sue the doctors too and add the damages from the infection to the lawsuit involving the gun discharge. It gets really comlicated, but it all depends on bodily damage as to how much this guy is entitled to.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Rocky is right about the guy suing the guy who pulled the trigger, the owner of the gun, etc. Thing is, it really depends on what the guy's injuries are as to how much money he will get. If the bullet merely grazed him, he isn't going to get much.

Really? Couldn't the lawsuit then change to sue for: "Emotional Damage"?
"He's now unable to function normally, and you must financially accommodate him..."

[VinVega]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab
No, it just means the police won't charge the shooter with a criminal offense.

I knew what was being said, it was just funny how the article worded it. They made it sound like it was ruled as an accident simply because they didn't know eachother, when it probably also included the fact that there was no dispute between the people, among other likely deciding factors.

Aside from that, I could see why they guy would sue the shooter. I'd be pretty PO'ed too about someone negating to clear a firearm before pulling any triggers or anything. I'd be just as mad if they HAD cleared it, and dry fired it in my direction anyway, just poor handling. What I personally wouldn't do is sue the Gun Show itself. It wasn't directly their fault, and my conscience wouldn't let me collect from someone who wasn't directly responsible. I do understand that not all people have conciences. The end of gunshows would be a pretty sad thing to happen, because there are still a few good ones out there. Sadly, the only one that ever comes through here is generally over priced and mostly composed of NRA guys walking around harassing everyone to join (nothing against the NRA, they're a great help, but 15 guys going person to person in a room of 50 people or so can get annoying) and cotton candy/popcorn/peanuts. Regardless, I hate to see anything that's on my side of this issue to go.

[Rocky Raab]

Not to seem hard-hearted, but I'm not concerned about the guy who got hit.

Or at least I'm concerned less about him than I am about the demise of gun shows.

Guys, I'm serious. This could spell the end of them - all of them.

[fabsroman]

Rocky,

You could care less about the guy that got hit because it is not you and you make a portion of your living at gun shows. Most people have trouble putting themselves in the other person's shoes. Like I said in the thread "Maybe I'm Thinking Wrong," we all like to say that we will take the noble approach (i.e., step in front of the bullet that is headed for a family member, push the little girl crossing the street out of the 19 wheeler's way even though we know we are going to get hit and die). I believe in the actions speak louder than words statement. Nobody ever grows up saying he wants to be a criminal or a thief, and we likewise go through life thinking that we will always do the right thing. However, we are not in this guy's shoes. What if he is a construction worker and he is out of work for 3 months while his leg heals. During that time, he loses his job and he loses the house he, his wife, and his three kids live in because it is foreclosed on for non-payment?

Ultimately, the guy that fired the gun was negligent and the shop owner was negligent. The guy that fired the gun didn't adhere to a couple of safety rules 1) muzzle control 2) treat every gun as if it is loaded 3) check the chamber of any gun when it is handed to you and 4) never pull the trigger unless all of the above have been done. The shop, through its owner or employee, assuming it is incorporated, was negligent in handing a loaded gun to this guy because they should have checked the chamber first.

Now, a plaintiff's attorney will most likely sue the shop and the gun show, you know why, because he doesn't want to take the house of the poor bastard that pulled the trigger. We know that the shop and the gun show are more likely to have insurance to cover this sort of thing versus the poor guy that merely pulled the trigger.

Nothing is as easy as it seems, and sometimes there is no win-win situation.

[GoodOlBoy]

In Texas not only are guns required to be unloaded but they run cable ties through them in various methods to prevent them from being loaded unless they are cut off first.

BTW Rocky has a danged valid point.

GoodOlBoy

[Rocky Raab]

Fabs, I'm as clear as you are about who was at fault and who was the immediate victim. No arguments from me about your other points, either.

But I'm also looking at the wider circle of victims - everybody who attends, enjoys, sponsors or deals at gun shows. Every single one of us got "hit" by that recent bullet. I'm afraid it'll be more than a flesh wound for the rest of us, is my point.

[DaMadman]

you know I am probably being totally in the clouds about this but they said the guy was in his late 60's both the shooter and the shootee. Maybe the guy that got shot will have enough sense not to sue anyone. I mean albiet tempting and he'll prolly get bombarded with calls from lawyers Maybe he will be the better man and not persue it

[Tater]

Both the shooter and the dealer should be beaten about the face, head, neck and chest with a large stick.

[Cal Sibley]

Isn't it possible a pseudo-customer from one of the anti-gun groups could have slipped a loaded round into the firearm? I don't mean to sound paranoid, but I just can't imagine anyone doing this. I don't believe any of God's children are that stupid.
Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[fabsroman]

Cal,

Even if they did slip a round in there, as gun users we should know how to handle the gun (i.e., never assume it is unloaded).

[Purebred Redneck]

It's true we're all taught how to safely handle a gun.
But how many of us would have pulled the trigger??? Guilty right here. Probably about half of us are.

Personally, I don't hold the shooter one bit responcible.
Shop owner and the gun show are.

[Tater]

If he pulled the trigger without checking the chamber, he is responsible.

[earschplitinloudenboomer]

Decocker and/or safety could be inoperable negating the need to pull the trigger to effect discharge of the weapon.

[gregarat]

I remember years ago when my dad wanted to trade his P94 9mm, for a Glock 17.

He brought the Ruger to the gun show, the dealer who was interested in buying it was inspecting the handgun. Wouldnt ya know, a cartrage popped out when he checked the slide. I never seen my dad more emberased in my life.

Like Fabs said "never assume its unloaded".

[tooldummy]

My favorite gunshop closed the first of the year. One of the things that impressed me so much was his attitude towards safety. When you asked to see a gun, he would take it down, work the action to check for a live round, and then hand it to you. I would then check it myself, as I always check a weapon myself, and look it over. Upon handing it back, he would again check it before putting it away. A person can not be to careful. The gun shows I've taken guns to in this area meet you at the door and inspect the guns to make sure they are unloaded and then put a plastic tie through the action if possible. This unfortunate incident is just another nail in the gun show coffin.