Wyoming fee hikes

[Darkwolf]

Wyoming Fish and Game Department, Regulations
3030 Energy Lane,
Suite 100,
Casper, Wyoming
82604


Re: Proposed Nonresident License and Preference Point Changes

Dear Sir or Madam,

I have received your State Game Department’s letter regarding proposed changes to your drawing system and to the fees for the preference points. In it, you asked me, as the affected party of the proposals, to comment on them.

I have no especial problem with that part of the proposed system of placing part of the draws for licenses under a preference point system. The fees suggested by the Fish and Game Commission, however, are another matter. For Elk, Deer and Antelope, the Commission proposes to charge a fee of $40 per preference point, and for Moose and Sheep the fee is to go from $7 to $75. I can only be left with the impression that the Commission is trying to reduce the numbers of non-resident hunters with these fee rates. To put this in perspective, a non-resident hunter is being asked to pay, for a point, what a resident pays for an elk license or almost twice what he pays for a deer or antelope license. For one point towards a moose draw, the non-resident is expected to pay 80% of a resident’s fee for the tag itself.

I understand that it is a tradition in western states to have non-residents foot the costs of conservation by making them pay higher fees, and that residents maintain this privilege by being enfranchised to vote and thus, influence the state governments.

With respect to these proposed changes though, I find that my only way to vote is with my wallet. If the fees are set as proposed, and placed out of the reach of all but a wealthy few, then I will just not be able to enter the draws. I work for a living and a $75 service fee for entering information into a computer is far outside both my ability and my willingness to pay. I was saving up for the $1200 license, the $4000 guiding service and the costs of transportation and lodging for this planned trip. Since, in the meantime, I cannot afford the point fees and since it is a waste of time to enter the license draw without them, there is no sense in maintaining these plans. This, especially since the proposed changes also make me feel uncomfortable about applying again for another antelope tag, as I have done several years running, or in the purchase I have made of a recreational property near the Medicine Bow National Forest.

I have been left with the feeling that I am unwelcome as a sportsman in your state and I question spending any more vacation time and money with such a reception.




C.C. This Letter to:

Gov. Dave Fruedenthal
Jane Flag, Board of Outfitters
North American Hunting Club


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just figured I should make my feelings known.

I know Non-resident fees are higher, but the fees just for purchasing a PREFERENCE POINT are bloody onerous. Coming from BC, I can hunt moose up here, but a hunt for a Shiras Moose in Wyoming was a dream hunt of mine for some time. I feel bad for other hunters in the US that have few other options.

To tell the truth, the suggested fee hikes seem more like openly turning game animals into a commodity for the highest bidder.

:(

Oh, well, not like it makes any difference, right?

[fabsroman]

As land and natural resources become scarcer, we will only see more and more of this. It is getting to the point in Maryland where it is almost impossible to hunt anywhere. So, a lot of us are looking at hunting outside of the state. Other states are picking up on this and increasing their fees to out of state people. I cannot say I blame them because I wouldn't want a bunch of out of state hunters ruining my hunting if one of the reasons I moved to that state was the hunting environment. Are the rules at all different for landowner's. I know my uncle didn't have to buy a PA license to hunt on his own property in PA. Maybe it is like that in other states.

[Andy L]

Huntings a rich mans game. No doubt.

I made a huge mistake of promising my son when he was 7, actually on the same day he killed his first deer, that I would take him on an antelope hunt in Wyoming when he came of age, 12. Well, thats next March. I began checking it out a couple weeks ago. Im afraid I may not be able to secure him a tag.

There is a better than average chance he will not get drawn in an area we can do it on our own and I cannot afford the outfitters I have checked so far, anyway.

I guess maybe I should have checked before I opened my mouth. The only time I went was in the 80s and that experience, coupled with the population that Wyoming boasts, I surely didnt figger it to be a problem.

I figgered wrong.

Andy

Edit:
While Im on the rampage, I think someone with common sense could make some cash as an outfitter out west. Seeing the prices that some of these guys charge, its gotta be good. Im not talking about record book bucks, but just a good shot at an antelope, I think I could guide for that.

I think there could be a market for a "poor mans outfitter". Someone could secure the tags for an area with enough BLM for people to pretty much hunt on their own could do good. I guess that would end up being tough to get a tag as well. Im sure Im not the only one to think this way.....

Just thinking out loud I guess..... :rolleyes:

[Darkwolf]

I understand your feeling Fabrosman. It can get pretty problematic having out-of-state hunters competing with locals. But there are other solutions. Colorado, for instance has the seasons set up so that residents get first opportunities. The other problem is that, as several court cases currently running suggest, if a state "commodifies" thier game, then interstate trade laws would demand that ALL americans be given equal footing. Or, alternativly, since non-resident fees are the lion's share of funding for conservation departments, some lawyer could succesfully argue that the Non-resident hunters have a greater moral and legal claim on the game than the residents do. Not entirely unthinkable, since courts and activists are challenging the "Western Welfare" concept of resource management with low stumpage fees for loggers, grazing leases for ranchers and mining leases. Adding Game management into the list publicly-funded, privately-priviliged resources would suit certain lawyers and politicians eminantly...

As for myself, I have no real quarrel with residents having an advantage to hunting and fishing opportunities. I just think that the non-resident sportsmen should have a REASONABLE opportunity to participate. Not only do they pay for the resource in a level that outstrips the residents, they bring money into local economies that resident hunters do not. America has a democratic tradition to hunting, an egalitarian sense that all sportsmen have equal opportunities to succeed or fail on thier own. Excessivly exclusionary actions to certain participants though, is more like the old "king's deer" concept from the Old World.... Where it's not the hunter's skill that counts, just the circumstances of his birth... or residency...

ah well. enough soapbox.


Oh, and landowners? They have to own 3,000 acres or more to be included in a seperate draw pool, which still uses preference points.:rolleyes:

[gspsonny03]

Well,being from Wyoming, I feel compelled to respond to some of this. First off, I understand the point system, and I must say that I don't like it, never have, but with out it I would probably have never drawn my Moose tag a few years back. Supposedly the point system was put into place to give everyone a fair chance at drawing tags. I'm not sure that is true. Here's an example of what I'm talking about. When I went Moose hunting in 2000, I met another hunter hunting in the same area, He was from Lander and he had a cow tag in hand, which he filled the third day out, My son and I helped him get his cow back to camp and we all sit and visited. This guy has had seven Moose tags in ten years. Now I don't care how you slice it I just don't see how that is possible. Once you draw a tag your are not suppose to be back in the point pool for five years. Maybe he was lying to me, maybe he wasn't, but I will tell you right now this crap happens. Do I agree with the new point system for the nonresidents? No I don't, supposedly this was put into place to make us more like the surrounding states. This is BS also. Wyoming is one of the few states that require a nonresident to hire an outfitter while hunting (wilderness areas) and the state keeps expanding their wilderness areas all the time. This is easy to see why, when the outfitters have so much say when it comes to setting up the game laws. Just wanted yall to know how some of us Wyomingites feel about it.

Andy: I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying they will sell out on the licenses? I'm not sure what area you put in for, but unless they have changed their quotas drastically, the Red Desert area hardly ever sells completely out. It has the states biggest Goats, the biggest chunk of State owned (public) ground, some of the biggest herds. The only problem is you are a long ways from anywhere (towns).

Fabs: As far as owning property here. As far as I know you have to prove that you have lived here for not less than one year preceding the date the person applies for the license. Additonally, the person shall not claim residancy elsewhere for any purpose during the previous year. Now the requirements for Landowner tags are as follows: You must have at least 160 acres of deeded land and 2000 animal use days annually by each species for which applied. So basically if you own land here you have to live here to hunt it. At least that's how I read it. Hope this helps.

[fishdoggydog]

I got the letter from Wyoming after the comment period ended, so my opinions will not be public record at the hearings. I have been getting points for moose and sheep since 1999. I only wanted points so I could eventually hunt when I figured I would get the tag in a unit I wanted. Now someone going into this is looking at maybe $750 just to get the points needed. I am done with the sheep application, and will try for moose in fall 2006, along with 100s of others in the same boat as me, and probably will not draw because of that reason. The rich person can always hunt, buy an auction tag, landowner tag, etc. The commoner gets to hunt surplus animals, does, cows, etc. and the rich buys a trophy, sometimes in a pen.

[Darkwolf]

I stand corrected gpsonny03 on the acreage amount. Perhaps I was thinking of Montana or something... Just the same, my point still stands. Unless I move there permanently, I'm out of luck.

Pity, since I rather liked the state up until this point. I even felt good about paying the property taxes on the 35 acre postage-stamp I bought. At least they itemised where the money went.

My real concern is, as fishdoggydog pointed out, that I now have to make the choice of putting in for next year's draw with a thousand other panicked working stiffs, or lose the opportunity. Short of a major lottery win, It'll be out of my reach forever.

....and then some accountant in the state house will point out the massive rise in 2006 applications as an indication of support for the new fee...:rolleyes:


Oh, BTW fisgdoggydog, they are taking written responses until June 17 at the address on the letter I posted. What the heck, splurge on a stamp and vent at the beancounters. I sent copies to the North American Hunting Club, the Wyoming Board of Outfitters and Guides and the Governor.

[gspsonny03]

The sad thing here is, you are absolutely right Darkwolf. They are going to look at this like it was something very creative, because they will have an influx of people for maybe a year. They aren't smart enough to look for the future to see what it may do. The thing that really upsets me about our Game and Fish Dept. is that they always tell us that they will put these things out for public comment before they install them into law. If you ever hear anything about them it's the day of the meeting and you have to travel three hundred miles to get to the dang thing.

[fishdoggydog]

I will send Wyoming a responce if you say it goes into the hearing yet till June 17. My letter came the day it was too late to send anything in, according to what I got in the mail.

[Darkwolf]

Yep. I double-checked. The written submissions are recieved AT THAT ADDRESS until June 17, 2005 at 4:00pm.