Student gets fined by school for going hunting

[Classicvette63]

A 6th grade girl was fined $480 by her school for taking off 3 days in deer season and 1 day for coyote hunting in February. That girl was my niece who I took hunting. :mad: I just found out about it. My sister didn't tell me earlier because of my tendency to get hostile towards stupid people. She didn't pay it and currently has a bench warrant out for her. She said she is going to wait until school is out so the principal has to waste his time coming to court. They said since it wasn't educational she couldn't be off of school.

This revenue generating nit-picking bullsh!t at Eastern York school district just came to a screeching halt. I couldn't be madder if someone came and told me to turn in my guns. Or more hostile. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[captain2k_ca]

I think it is educational.......Hunting conservation/Biological studies/ecological studies.

Probably learns more in a day of hunting that a week of school!!

Id be a bit choked myself too!!! Liberal ^&*^%^$%^*%*^$%^*%^&*%*&^%^&*^%^

[fabsroman]

First of all, how did you niece get caught. Second of all, I cannot believe they are actually fining your sister for your niece missing school. That is the ultimate POS.

[Rocky_Raccoon]

I feel for ya man, id snap... get a lawyer and explain to him how its Very Educational learning Biology and ecology in 6th grade you know, and beyond that its tradition, which is history... you throw lunch in there somewhere and you got a full day of school, only more practical and hands on..

[skeeter@ccia.com]

What about the field trips to the lake or woods the schools take kids on?..Flowers, trees, animals...remember the leaf collection we all had to make?....or the plant collection?....yea I think you have point to prove about the educational trip or in their book, lack of...go get em...

[SuperMagnum]

That just goes to show how @#$!ed up the world is becoming. I've had several friends have to serve in-school suspensions just cuz they took a day off to go hunting. Meanwhile, a guy I know in another local town used to take a whole week off to deer hunt and the school had no problem with that. She shouldn't have to pay that stupid fine as it's already paid for by her taxes.

[BILLY D.]

I SEE A REAL REASON FOR "BLUE FLU". JUST DON'T TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ABSENCE.

NOW ISN'T THAT A LOVELY LESSON WE HAVE TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN? IT'S OK TO LIE .................SOMETIMES.

HORSE HOCKEY.......AS MY HERO THE COLONEL ON MASH USED TO SAY.

I'D GET A LAWYER. IT'S NOT RIGHT TO TEACH CHILDREN SOMETHING WRONG TO SATISFY A BUNCH OF PINKOS.

KEEP US POSTED CLASSIC ON WHAT HAPPENS. WE ARE WITH YOU BUDDY. I KNOW THESE DAYS $400 AIN'T MUCH REALLY IT'S JUST THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER.

[PJgunner]

Since when does a school have the right to fine someone? Bone up on all the possibilities of it's being a lreaning experience, the biology, nature studies, historical values and anything else you can think of. Then, get a lawyer and whup ass!
Several states close school for opening weekend. Our seasons alway start on Fridays, but I'm not sure if schools close, but it's an excused absence.
Good luck in the battle and make that principal idiot squirm.
Paul B.

[Thargor]

When I lived in Dallastown PA the Kids had off for opening day. I thought York also had off?

[tooldummy]

My daughter stayed home several years ago and went deer hunting with me, and one of the teachers got on her pretty hard about it. This teacher told her as far behind as she was in her school work, she couldn't believe my daughter had stayed home to go hunting. The following week, they shut the whole school down for teachers institute. And I wrote the teacher a note and told her that I couldn't believe as far behind as she knew my daughter was that they would shut the whole school down for a teachers institute. I have always tried to teach my kids that honesty is the best policy. From then on, I simply wrote a note and explained that we were going to be out of town a few days. And since we live 5 miles from the nearest town, and 15 from the school, we are technically out of town every day.
I think the fine thing is a bunch of BS. But when you are dealing with idiots, what isn't?

[Mil Dot]

If you'd like to get a link to the school district I'm sure that a few of us could send some e-mails of support for her. Heck, contact the NRA, Isaac Walton, RMEF, Wild Turkey Fed, Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited etc. I'm certain they'd be interested in how a 6th grader was being fined for going hunting and learning about the outdoors. I can't believe that fines are involved. What absolute bull****!

[Darkwolf]

I strongly question the legal principle of fining parents for student's absences. Dumb system, if the parent wishes to provide a few days for alernative learning and maturity experiences, like outdoor sports, attending a museam opening... or hell, even taking his kid to see the opening of "Star Wars: Episode 3" then it isn't the school's business. If the kid is inclined to play hooky, then the parent can't really force him to go to school, especially with all the laws against disciplining or even yelling at kids....

Sounds like some damn idiot idea that some PTA facist came up with to make themselves look great for the next election...

I'd fight the fine if you can, man. If not, post the address of the head of the school board, and we can write letters of support.:D

[Classicvette63]

My sister told them at the time that the abscences would be for hunting. The principal said she could not take off for that, so they were unexcused abscences. You are allowed 5 unexcused days. She only took 4 for hunting. When my niece got pink eye a month ago and returned with a doctors note the principal said they were unexcused as well so she got nailed for all of the abscences. Seems this guy is really anti hunting. I think him and I will have to have a little "heart to heart" talk. I'll keep you posted. Hey Fabs, know any good bailbondsmen?:D

[fabsroman]

Andy L is a bail bondsman, but try not to get that involved. No sense in you getting in trouble along with your niece. As far as excused and unexcused absences, we had the same thing in my high school. If she has a doctors note for the pink eye, I would fight that all the way. There is no way that an abscense for pink eye should not be excused, especially when the student has a doctor's note. Heck, in my high school we only needed a note from our parents for the abscence to be considered excused.

[BILLY D.]

HEY VETTE
LIKE FABS SAYS THIS CLOWN ISN'T WORTH HAVING A WALL TO WALL CONFERENCE WITH. ASSAULT CHARGES ON "YOUR PERMANENT RECORD" ARE NOT GOOD.

A QUESTION, WHAT LAW ALLOWS SCHOOLS TO LEVY FINES? I THINK THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS. I THOUGHT ONLY JUDGES OR JP'S COULD DO THAT. THIS SITUATION SUX. POLICE DO IT BUT IT IS DONE THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM.

[Purebred Redneck]

She didn't get fined for hunting. She got fined for an unexcused absence - going to the baseball game, sleeping in too late, visiting your grandma when she's in town - they are "unexcused" absences. The only real excused absences are funerals, sick, or a school sponcered function.

Fabs is right - when we went to school all a parent had to do is call it in. Hell if the parents didn't call it in the school would call home.

I've worked with 2 schools the last 3 years. They are REALLY cracking down on school absences.
#1. there are public stats (at least in MO) that shows a school's attendence rate - and if it falls the school loses funding.
#2. Parents don't care if a kid misses school anymore. It has got to the point that if a kid tells his mom he just doesn't feel like going to school today - the mom will call the kid in sick. That's no joke.

Most of the time schools have a flat scale that if you miss X# of days you fail, you get the paddle for an unexcused, detention, etc. This is the first time I've heard of a fine.
I don't know about that school district - could be school board politics, could be because funding is cut by the gov, or could be a major crackdown on absentees.


Most of the time all you have to do is throw a fit and threaten action. Because I promice you there are minority or athletic students that are getting away with it.

[fabsroman]

When I was in high school, if you had 5 or more unexcused abscences you lost all credit for that semester. Kind of insance if you ask me, but that is how it went. Granted, the smart kids could probably miss 5 or more days and still pass. Problem was with the kids that were struggling and those were the ones that usually wanted to skip class. My brother tried out the system once and lost all of his credits for the semester. That was a fun ordeal. Back then, the school had a computer program that would call parents to let them know their kid wasn't in school.

[DaMadman]

I personally think it is rediculous that she is getting into any kind of trouble for taking some days off to go hunting and I think that it is definetly some sort of anti hunting agenda here. Either on the part of the teacher, the principal or both.

However Truency is a punishable crime in many jurisdictions.
However it is not normally enforced at any level much less for the few days you are talking about so all in all I think it is BS too.

[gregarat]

What is the world coming too? It seems if she lied and said she was sick, the matter might have been overlooked.

About half of the kids in my high school took a "sick day" on the opening day of big game. Most of them didnt even hunt, or have their parents call the school.

[Slim-Zippy]

I don't know what the law is in your area, but my father-in-law didn't pay school taxes for years, because the school district could not prove it was a legal taxing entity. The judges just kept dismissing the case and hoped it did't attract public attention.

You might check into the schools ability to levy a fine against a student; I thought only criminal and civil courts could do that.

Maybe Fabs has some insight into this question?

Good Luck

[Classicvette63]

The fine came from the local magistrate. The school called a cop, he came to the school and took the info. A few days later my sis gets a surprise in the mail. The piece of paper is exactly like a speeding ticket. And my sister did have a warrant for her arrest. She going to fight it, if it goes that far.

[fishdoggydog]

I think a jury trial would be nice for this case, I know how I would vote. The issue is unexcused absence, and that is determined by local custom from what I am seeing on this board.

[Classicvette63]

Went to the see the principal today. (Gee, I haven't had to say that in a long time;) ) One look at him and I knew I wouldn't have to get hostile. Johnny Milktoast would be the best term I guess. He said he couldn't get into the specifics due to privacy issues. I said "That's fine, let me give you a few specifics. When Tiff is a junior, I'm taking her to Canada to hunt bear just like my Dad did with me. I AM NOT adding an extra grand onto the cost of the trip just because some overpaid money hungry bureacrat has his hand out. That hand is liable to get chopped off." I also went into the fact that I know there are anti-hunters out there but none of them would be stupid enough to try and force their beliefs on me or my family, even if it is a school district. I let him know that we are going to fight it and that I consider this just a misunderstanding. I finished with "I glad that we understand each so I don't have to come back here again".:D

It seems that my sister filled out the request slip, but it was denied. Eastern will be changing their requirements next year, I can promise that.

[fabsroman]

Keep us posted on how everything goes.

[Purebred Redneck]

Originally posted by fishdoggydog
I think a jury trial would be nice for this case, I know how I would vote.

This problem is "this is stupid" is NOT a reason to vote for the plantiff. Jurors are suppost to look at the law. You are right - I would ask for a jury trial though. ;)

Do I think the policy is lawful? Yes
In good taste and consistant? No
Does this have anything to do with hunting? No, not anymore than any other recreational activity.

[fabsroman]

PBR,

How juries determine things is tough to figure out, and the first person that figures it out will make a ton of money. Sometimes they do listen to the judge and determine things based on the law, but sometimes they go with the sympathy part of it all. Granted, if the law doesn't support their finding in the least bit, the Judge has the power to override the jury. Then you will be going through an appeal process for the rest of eternity.

[fishdoggydog]

When I said I know how I would vote if I was on the jury, shows my predudice. A good lawyer wouldn't let me on the jury,because this was me 30 + years ago, only I lost a grade point instead of a fine. I went hunting, told them so, and it was unexcused. Shows how stubborn I was, and that hunting was more important than grade point average. The kicker is, I was on the Honor Society, was told I should be going to college by my guidance counseler, and had too many issues to listen to anyone older than 20. I can't go back, but tell young people now, that education is a light weight to carry the rest of their life.

[fabsroman]

Depends what side the good lawyer is on.

[Andy L]

Classic,
Just saw this and it makes my blood boil. Thank god they dont do it here. Heck, they used to pretty much shut down for deer season when I was a kid. No one showed up anyway.

Keep us posted. If you need bonded, Im not licensed in PA, but do have contacts. :D (Thanks for the referral Fabs... ;) )

I am on jury duty right now. Havent gotten chosen yet, but did have to go through the selection once. I got a feeling I didnt get picked partially because it was an injury case and the surgeon testifying is also the surgeon who did my back surgery and will probably be doing another soon. Who knows though. 45 people and they needed 12. Sure didnt break my heart to not get picked. I have set though enough court with work. Some people felt dejected though for not getting picked. I didnt understand that.

I will say that I will take my boys out of school for anything I feel I need to or want to. I hate to say it, but PBR is right. Its not just about hunting. Schools seem to have the idea that they are running the show in alot of ways these days. I dont see it that way. Im thankful for good schools and good teachers, but we all have lives outside of work and school. Some things just take over. I have battled with teachers, principles and other school officials that just cant believe my stance on some things. I know my son has probably learned as much or more from me as he has from school.

Boils my blood.

Andy

[fabsroman]

Over the years I have noticed that children are mostly a reflection of their parents. Yes, teachers provide them with an education, but most of their traits (e.g., honesty, dishonesty, courage, cowardice, bravery, chivalry, morals) are picked up from their parents. The example a parent set for his/her children is extremely important. That is why it is important for parents to spend time with their kids. Society today has children doing way too much to try and get ahead. Problem is that it injurs the child/parent relationship.

[Andy L]

My son was doing things last year in 5th grade that we didnt do until probably 7th grade. Its like they are pushing them hard.

And sports, oh my gosh. I was so mad the first time my son played basketball, 3rd grade I think. That guy running it acted like it was NCAA tryouts. I just couldnt believe it. Finally a local church started a league and actually let kids develop. Its booming and the hitler school program has died. I love it.

There are alot more things than school and sports to raising a productive and intelligent kid. I wish the "officials" would realize that. I think alot of it has to do with their own compitition for money based on student performance. MAP testing, I believe its called is just one of the things. It has no bearing on their grades. Has nothing to do with education. Just a competition to see how the school as a whole is doing compared to other schools. Hidden agendas shouldnt be having a bearing on how our children are raised.

I dont care what they think or do. My children are going to have a well rounded upbringing. Thats going to include outside school hunting, fishing and educational trips. If that means missing a bit of school here and there, well, so be it.

Andy

[Purebred Redneck]

MAP testing, as it is explained to me - rather as it has forced down my throat, is that it has nothing to do with funding. Whether it's true, I don't know for sure.
It's suppost to be a test for accredidation. If the school does not show progress, the school may not be accredidited. It's the difference between a Harvard degree and one from buyyourdegreeonline.com

Only problem is you can't compare one class to a prevouis year's class. You can have a couple years of good kids followed by a couple years of retards - and you can lose your job because of it.
And of course you can't teach your subject and then take the MAP test - you have to teach the terminology and example questions of the MAP test. Spend 20 minutes a day telling students what the definition of assess, evaluate, etc instead of doing something productive.


And the president wants a test that you have to pass to pass high school. Come on, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Many colleges are government funded and you don't see them giving out senior exit tests.
I took a test in order to get a teaching licence based on all the social studies classes I took in college. I'm taking the test and thought "**** I never heard of this. A A B D haven't used C in a while - CCC"

[Allen]

Home schoolers dont have this problem.

Allen

[Andy L]

BS. I gurantee if you follow the MAP testing far enough down the line, there is cash involved.

I agree Allen. I would love to homeschool my kids. Its just not feasible for us right now. I guess we could make some drastic changes and pull it off, but cant at the moment.

The only problem I see with homeschooling is the lack of being around other kids. I know that our schools are partly a big cess pool where kids learn about drugs, sex and violence. But its also where they learn about relationships and how to interact with others socially. Right or wrong. Thats the only thing I can see wrong with home schooling.

I have a friend who home schooled his two boys. It came out 50-50. One is a great guy. Has a great job. Married with a kid of his own now. Couldnt ask for anything better. The other was trouble the whole time he was home schooling. Wanting to be with other kids. When he got the chance to, it was the wrong ones. He wanted to be "cool". Hes been in and out of jail and pretty much a meth head.

Im not saying he wouldnt have turned out the same way in public school. Just my experience that it doesnt always work exactly right to home school. They still find a way to get to the bad stuff.

Andy

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Andy L
The only problem I see with homeschooling is the lack of being around other kids. I know that our schools are partly a big cess pool where kids learn about drugs, sex and violence. But its also where they learn about relationships and how to interact with others socially. Right or wrong. Thats the only thing I can see wrong with home schooling.
Used to feel the same way Andy.
The more folks I got know around these parts who actually home-schooled opened my eyes to what really goes on.
Those HS'd kids would get together quite often for "school-type" activities beyond the instruction in the home. And it's not like they're locked up in the house 24/7. Those kids have penty of "after-school" activities to do around other people.
:)

Now if only school vouchers would be available so a person could spend their OWN valuable tax dollars as they see fit. Not the governments money but their own money. In fact, they shouldn't have to pay it in in the first place for this type of use.

[Andy L]

Skinny,
That would be great, if it worked out. Im afraid in our case, it would be harder. I dont know of anyone around here that home schools to get the kids together. My oldest is getting ready to start 6th grade and he already has friends, so that wouldnt be as bad. My youngest is ready for Kindergarten. He wouldnt know any of the local kids. I live in the brush. Its not like there are kids around the neighborhood either. I guess there are always church functions and such.

I know my friend in the example above had trouble with that. They live outside a small farmtown, kinda like we do in Kansas. He basically said the same thing I was concerned about.

Are you home schooling? Like I said, we have talked alot about it. I just cant do it. Not with the job I have now. Cant guarantee I can be anywhere at any certain time. Gotta leave on a moments notice to make a living. My wife cant do it either. We could make it without her income easily enough, but she has great insurance through work and we cannot afford to lose that with my back problems and some other problems we have. I told her a long time ago she could quit work if we could get insurance somewhere at even double the price she pays now. We cant do it. Thats another rant.

Andy

[fabsroman]

Don't get me started about health insurance. Then again, we all want to live forever, so we have to pay for the medical advances in technology. What a lot of us do not understand is that most medical companies/drug companies spend a ton in R&D. The machines and drugs do not cost a lot to make, just a ton to invent.

[Allen]

Andy,
9 years ago I did not think home schooling was good either. The only one I knew that home schooled had a kid that was out of control. My wife was leaving a job that we felt was bad for our family and I got a promotion at work that I was not expecting. This freed up my wife to stay home with no lose of money. I understand the insurance problem, but I carried the coverage with my job. Insurance is a racket run by crooked companies but that another topic for another thread.

If you were to check around you would be surprised at the number of people that home school. Ask around at churches and you find them and there are groups that organize events for them. These groups are called “coverings”. In some states they are required by law and in others you don’t have to be in one. Some are so large they are their own school system. They have all of the team sports, all of the field trips and a graduation at the end of each year. They just do their teaching at home. The only reason not to have your children “socialize” is if you want to hide them from the world. There is also city league sports.

The same amount of teaching that happens at a school can be done in three to four hours at home. This can be in the morning, in the evening, on weekends or on the road while on vacation. This is a big plus. You can go places during the school year and not have to fight the crowds.

We home schooled my daughter from the 5th grade through 12th in two states. We never had a problem with finding help and we think it was the right thing to do for our family. There are good and bad examples of people that home school. The bad ones are the nut cases that are shown on the evening news and called cults or the people who don’t properly teach their kids but pass them anyway. ( Wait a minute, that sounds like some public schools.) The good ones are the kids you don’t hear about, except for once a year when the national spelling contest come around. My wife and daughter traveled a lot during that time and she got to see and do so many things that other kids never will do.

If done right, home schooling is NOT easy or cheap. It did not cost as much as the private school that we sent her to for K4- 4th grade, but there is a good bit of money involved. There is a HUGH responsibility on the parents but mainly on the parent that will be the teacher. Most will be the mother but there are a few dads that stay home.

I have probably gone on too long with this reply but there are so many good things I can tell you about home schooling after doing it for 9 years. Don’t go into it blindly. Talk about it with each other. Find some home schoolers in your area, as many as possible, and talk to them. Pray about it a lot because it will change your life. If you go this route stick with, it will be worth the effort.

Allen

BTW My daughter just finished her first year of collage and did not have any problems.

[Valigator]

Man I cant believe this one....my kid has been out of school for years, I never had to deal with this...but my friends kids are mostly in private schools and pay some pretty big bucks for that...so the school doesnt mess with the parents too much...I think I told all of you about Vicky ...when we did the open house with her, one of her teachers had an entire wall filled with pictures of all of his hunts...but think back...the real nerds in school mostly graduated to become our childrens teachers and professors.....so while initially outraged by this thread, somehow it doesnt surprise me...but a fine...no way.......with what we all pay in school taxes I dont think so.......

[Skinny Shooter]

Hey Classic, how are you folks making out with this situation?

[Mickey Rat]

When my kids were in school, we expecterd A/B Honor Roll. When they were young, being able to exempt finals ment going to 6 Flags instead of school.

Later, as they got into Middle and High School, my wife kept up with sick days and total days allowed out. As long as grades stayed up, time could be taken off.

It worked for us. Both kids on Honor Roll and got scholarships.

I would visit the principal and in private that if this fine went forward that I would find him with my friend Lou (louiville Slugger, wood of course). If things didn't turn out to suit me I would follow thru. Never break a promise. Never make a promise that you don't keep.

It might not work out to suit me, but the next guy wouldn't have the same problem.

One of the problems today is that public figures think that they can do as they damn well want and you cand do s..t. Well, show them the light. If you don't take physical action, take legal action. Sue the bastard! It's you right. You don't have to have a reason. Just make one up and sue him. Money talks. Make it too expensive to fight. A suit aginst him personally, not the school or the local government, will make him have to respond with legal fees. He has violated the childs civil rights.

Enough trouble from concerned individuals will ruin his chances for promotion.

[AZZAFOX]

Classic Why dont you hit em with a subject called Conservation Biology. This was a core subject in my Diploma in natural resource mangemement, in laymans terms its the study of the interaction of Inaminate objects(Rocks=Geology) and living objects(Plant and animal). It also covers the interactions between animals
(Predator and Prey, Symbiotic relationships etc). Also it alks about Humans interaction with these different cycles and how those cycles can be altered with intervention etc. It also emphasises the importance of controlling pest animals for the conservation of native animals. The controll of weed species for the conservation and viability of native plants(Flora). Basicly terms the interaction of floran and fana too. knowing what a bear, deer or some other native animal eats is learn about interation in nature.

I hope this would help.:)

[Lilred]

7 absences, excused (which is doctor's note and/or WRITTEN note from home)and unexcused combined. If ya git any more than that..yer butt is in the pokey. Simple. Period. End of discussion.

So what winds up happenin? Ya send yer kid to school sick so the other kids can git sick, and then they can give it back to yer kid 2 weeks later. friggin ludicrous.

[AZZAFOX]

Sheesh I used to go hunting twice a year on a sick note from the doctor. But as a student who handed every assignment in, myteachers wouldnt give 2 hoots if I went interstate to hunt pigs and othe critters. The teachers recognised I needed to spend time with my father and also they saw it helped combat the ild depression I had onset in may last two years of highschool as the workload increased 2 fold.

In those last wo years I would take a fortnight off before the exams twice a year to study in a conducive environment and to hunt to clear away the cobwebs up top. I wasnt the only kid who did this.:)

[myEspringr]

Amzing .
geez most of my missed days in school were cause my dad took me hunting and when my kids get a little older you bet they will miss some school. when you think about it kinda is educational, how did our ancestor survive. gee coulda it be hunting and fishing. wow the more ithink about it that ticks me off.

[Classicvette63]

Well, my sister got a lawyer and the hearing should be scheduled for later this summer. I'll keep everyone posted.

[AZZAFOX]

Ding ding, in this corner a stupid over zelous school principal, in this corner............:D

[Mickey Rat]

Classicvett363,

Tell your sister "way to go". I hope she fires the principle when she owns the school. Tell her to use some of the money from the settlement to send her kid on a nice guided hunt. They can take the principle's car.