Model 700 woes

[SuicidJky]

I finally got frustrated enough its time to ask for some help from the experts :)

[ChesterGolf]

Check your bases and your rings. Make sure they are tight and loc-tite them as well. If that is good, boorow your fathers scope and put it on your gun. It doesn't sound like a rifle issue... more of a scope type issue but check all the bolts on the rifle. Try different ammo as well. What works in one doesn't always work in the next.

[Andy L]

It outta shoot better than that with any ammo. Check your bases and rings. Then, run a dollar bill between the bbl and stock to make sure its not walkin on you.

Glass bedding will tune one in, but if its shooting that bad, I cant see that helping that much.

If the bbls floated and the rings and bases are tight, you may have to take it to a smith to check the bbl. Make sure its not "alligatored" from abuse and rust or simply shot out. I have seen some really nice looking guns that you would swear were like new that had bad bbls. Worst case would be order a new bbl. Action should be good. Alot of fine guns are built on 700 actions.

One other thing, look at the crown on the end of the bbl. A nick from dropping on concrete or something can make a bullet do wild things.

Andy

Edit: As I have a habit of doing, I get to thinking outloud then go back and read the question again. :D If it tightens up after shooting and heating, it could well be the bbls not floated. Thats an easy fix. Run a dollar bill down it. (or a $100, it dont matter. :D ) If it wont easily slide from the end to the action, that would be a good place to start. I had a Ruger do that one time and thats what it was. I think what was happening was after a few shots, it would finally settle on a spot and stay and shoot good for a while.

When it comes in after a few shots, does it shoot in the same place everytime in relation to the bullseye? Or is it just a good group in different places?

[Andy L]

Keep us posted. It could be any number of things.....

Doesnt sound like a scope. That usually dont get better. Could be a bbl problem. Could be it needs some fouling and the heating up could help bring it in? They can drive you nuts at times.

One more thing you might check. I know this sounds simple, but how about your screws holding your action to the stock? Are they tight?

I hope you figger it out.

Andy

[PJgunner]

Originally posted by SuicidJky

FI shoot a group of about 2 feet at 100 yards.....then as the barrel heats up the group tightens up to under an inch. I blamed myself for awhile, then my dad tried with the same results. I have tried 7-8 different loads,powders,heads and the same results with the same results, some minor changes but thats expected. What could be causing this problem? rustrated, Shane

NOBODY'S LISTENING HERE. :rolleyes: Note, the rifle shoots a two foot group then tightens up AFTER THE BARREL HEATS UP.

Possibly a serious bedding problem? Who knows? Without having the rifle in hand, it's hard to tell for sure what is wrong. However, the forst thing I think I would do is remover the barreled action from the stock and look it over with a fine tooth comb. I mean, look for shiny rubbed spots in the barrel channel, possible cracked wood in the recoil lug area, and where the screw holes in the wood are. Look to see if the screws themselves are rubbing against the screw holes.

Checking the screws holding the scope base may prove something, but I doubt it. I feel that if it was the scope, groups would be erratic all the time, that is a wide group one time and a poor group the next time, with no particular group falling into any particular sequence.

What I seriously do suspect is, when barrels are made, they are checked for straightness. If one comes out crooked, the factory straightens it out and puts it on a gun. Probably 99 44/100 percent of the time it works out satisfactorily. It's that one time that it doesn't. When the barrel is cold, it may or may not group worth squat, then tightens up as yours does, or it could be just the opposite.

You say you bought the rifle secondhand. Now you know why the original (?) owner sold it. Wasn't very ethical, but nowadays being ethical for some isn't in vogue. :mad:

Here's what I think I would do. If checking out the interior of the stock shows no abnormalties, I think I would contact Remington about your problem. Whether they put a new barrel on the gun for free or if they will charge you, I haven't a clue, but either way, the rifle will probably be fixed. Whether you want to keep it after that is up to you.
Paul B.

[Andy L]

HUH, I THOUGHT I HAD TRIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. SORRY IT WASNT SATISFACTORY TO YOUR STANDARDS! :rolleyes:

[Catfish]

If everything is tight on the gun you might try putting shims between the barrel and the stock about 1 in. back from the end of the forearm. I bought a .270 years ago that had cardboard between the barrel and the stock and it would keep 5 bullets touching at 100 yrds. I left the cardboard in and killed a bunch of groundhogs with that gun. It`s a way the oldtimers used to tune their barrels.

[PJgunner]

Originally posted by Andy L
HUH, I THOUGHT I HAD TRIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. SORRY IT WASNT SATISFACTORY TO YOUR STANDARDS! :rolleyes:

Whoa Andy, lighten up. I was addressing the majority of the posts that were blaming the screws, scope and the phase of the moon. :D
Frankly, if that fellow and his rifle were in my neck of the woods, I would find it interesting to tinker with it myself and see what gives. It would be illegal for him to send it to me , and it's too darn far for us to hook up and mess with it. :rolleyes:
Lately, I've been reading about Remington's poor quality control on other sites, and that's why I think the problem is acutally in the barrel. Just might not have been properly stress relieved. I really can't see any other source for the problem.
Paul B.

[Downwindtracker2]

Remingtons BDLs have a pressure pad at the sling stud.Unless someone removed for a reason.

Look up the barrel to a light from the receiver end.Check it against your dad's. I didn't know what they were talking about until I saw it in cherry P-14.You should be able to see the difference,too.

A bad crown is a common problem,even in new factory rifles.Check your's with a magifying glass.

The most common tuning tricks are bedding,recrowning and lug engagement.

[Rapier]

I try to stay away from these 3,000 mile diagnosis situations, but I think I have a fair idea what may be wrong with this 700.

As a used rifle the gun might have been rebarreled. I suspect that the action treads do not match the barrel threads. If the barrel thread is undersized, the barrel would be locked tight at the shoulder and remain loose at the butt of the barrel shank. Cold, the muzzle would move and spray bullets. As the shank heats from the inside out, it would fill the thread gap equally, might shoot MOA, but would shoot to the same point every time when hot.

You should have the tread diameters checked on the barrel and action.
Ed

[Evan03]

if you dont be carefull noneones going to listen. ;)

so it heats up shootsd good 1" and smaller groups, cools off then shoots 2 foot groups. that right there tells me something is up with either the rifle or shooter both. probly a combination of the two.

i have never owned a rifle that shoots that horrible and couldnt even begin to give you any tips. i do know ive had a scope or two shake loose and stay inside of 2 foot groups at 100yds.

first thing i always check would be the scope, but like stated before that normaly wouldnt get better between groups.
but shoot good and bad groups tend to rely alot on luck. so i still wouldnt say the scope is out of the question. what kinda scope is it.

technigue, ammo. scope, bedding, time of day, time of month, wethere theres gona be a full moon tonight. all have everything to do with group shooting.


what remington rifle is this, what scope, what range, what ammo, is the rifle stock, did you know it shoots 2' groups when cold, before you took it hunting.?

pie plate acurate works to whatever range you can hold a group inside of the plate. wether that be at 50yds or 500. 2ft at 100yds woulkd make it pie plate acurate at around 12"s off the muzzle. makeing this rifle unfit to hunt anywhere.

maybe it should be sent back to remnington.

there are so many options and variables you can take and you make that decision not anyone else. everyone here is trying to help and ARE listening. youve been given alot of good info. more than most ever figure out on theyre own.

right here you can search or post questions. take info for what its worth use it or decide its not for you. i for one can tell you 99.9995789% of the time the info is dead on

Evan

[Rapier]

Woah,
Did you or did you not change the scope out? If you did not change the scope out, you have not eliminated the possibility that the scope is T-U. You also did not say the gun shot OK to start with and now shoots 2 foot groups. ah-hum forget the threads being mis matched... I am going back to sleep ZZZZZZZZ.
Ed

[buckhunter]

I had a simular problem with a Ruger 77. I tinkered all summer with it and finally sold the gun but kept the scope. Quess what, it was the scope all along. Forget the iron sites, check it out with another scope. If that fails send it back to remington.

Put a few drops of fingernail polish at a few contact points when the rings meet the scope. The scope may be moving when you shoot.

[fabsroman]

I had that problem with a couple of scopes too. They were moving in the rings from the recoil. Didn't notice it until one was as far back as possible and I was getting clobbered in the eye with it.

Posted about it on here and was told to use some rubber cement between the rings and scope tube. I believe that was Jack and Rocky Raab's suggestion. The rubber cement is cheap and can be picked up at any school supply or office supply store. Plus, you can take it off the rings and the scope at a later date and leave absolutely no trace of it.

[fabsroman]

Everytime there is a post on this thread, I am hoping that I will hear what the solution is to this rifle's problem. It truly has me mesmerized. When I see a post from Suicidjky I am dying to read the thread.

You definitely need to get this issue resolved so that enquiring minds will know what the issue is with this rifle.

[Skinny Shooter]

Did anyone look at the bolt handle yet :confused:

Just kidding... ;) :D

[PJgunner]

It seems to me, that if the first shots give a very bad group, then the next round of shots gives a good group, that when the barrel(?) heats up, something is altered. A bad scope will sometimes give bad groups and good groups, but a bad group on the first string, then good groups thereafter untils cool off? No bloody way!
The comment about the loose fitting threads, maybe.
However, five will get you ten it's in the barrel. I think a barrel slipped though that was not properly stress relieved. Whether Remington will make it good, considering it's a second hand rifle, I can't say. However, having them replace the barrel will probably be less expensive than from a gunsmith.
Probably the previous owner disposed of it for exactly the same reason. Probably didn't want the hassle of sending it back to the factory.
My only experience of returning a rifle to the factory was with a Ruger #1 in 7x57. It too had a bad barrel that would not shoot anything. My gunsmith did a chamber cast and found the throat was over two inches long, way out of spec. I wrote Ruger, explaining that is was a second hand rifle and what my gunsmith had determined. They had me send it in. It took almost four months to ger it back, but not only had they replaced the barrel, but completely refinished the rifle. Groups are now in the .75 to 1.25" range depending on the load.
Contact Remington and see if they will do anything for you.
Good luck.
Paul B.

[kailua custom]

I saw this happen a long time ago in Hawaii with a Ruger 77. Shot crappy until it warmed up ---then fine. The barrel wasn`t bored/rifled correctly or stress releived at the factory. In the "relaxed" state[cool] was was a tad bent. Upon heating up it straightened out and shot. If I have a spare Rem 700 7mm RM barrel you can have it for the S/h if you have a `smith to install it. I think this will solve the problem.

Aloha, Mark

[Cal Sibley]

Drop the thing off at a good gunsmiths, tell him to "make it shoot. and call you when ready." Make sure he test fires it. Life's too short to fool with an inaccurate rifle. You could be an old man by the time you get to the bottom of this. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Cal Sibley]

I'd pack the rifle and send it off to Remington. Let this become their headache, not yours. Remington has a nasty habit of preaching accuracy while declaring rifles that shoot no better than 3" groups as being reasonable. Your rifle can't begin to meet their wildest standards for accuracy. They should repair it so long as no one has made any modifications to it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[fabsroman]

I am glad to hear that you finally got that thing fixed.

However, why are you going to but a new one now that you have something shooting so good? I would be very happy with anything shooting 2" groups at 300 yards.

[gumpokc]

I agree, if your keeping 10 shots in 1 inch at 100 thats plenty good, then 10 shots in 2 inch at 300, thats definately suitable for anyone.

oh sure there's some benchrest shooters i know of that wouldn't be happy, but these particular guys are..um...shall we say, anal-retentive about anything more than 1/4 inch 5 shot strings at 100.

so unless your looking at building a longrange benchrest rifle, i think you gotter whipped.:D

[fabsroman]

Any time somebody else is willing to do the buying, I am all for a new gun. That doesn't happen much for me. The only two guns that were bought for me were bought by my dad. The first was when I was 8 years old and it was a Browning BPS 12 gauge that I couldn't use for many years. Because that gun was too big and he couldn't find a replacement stock to saw down, he bought me a single shot 20 gauge that I used for one year before graduating to his Auto 5 12 gauge.

Since then, I have been buying all my own guns, but I have been able to use a couple of my dad's along the way, and he has been able to use some of mine too.