SUV's Roll over

[Mil Dot]

I was watching CBS as I write this and they did a report that SUV's have a higher instance of rolling over.

Let's see, more ground clearance, higher center of gravity and being driven like a Porcshe by a suburban or city slicker or teen, while talking on a cell phone, drinking a espresso and/or hauling a vehicle full of kids or friends, while watching a mobile DVD or updating their e-mail on the laptop.

It's got to be the vehicles fault!

Sorry, but it was just to much ignorance this early in the morning.

[fabsroman]

Yep, I agree. Saw some stats for Maryland where speeding is out of control. The number of tickets given for going over 20 mph over the speed limit has increased by 20% over the past 5 years and the number of tickets given for going over 30 mph over the speed limit has increased by 63% over the past five years.

Three years ago, I saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee flip over right in front of me because the driver was not paying attention to the road. She had just picked up her wedding dress and had three other women in the car with her. A car was off the road in the median throwing up grass everywhere trying to get back on the road and everybody was rubber necking. Problem is, this lady rubber necked before noticing that everybody in front of her was doing likewise. When she looked forward again, she realized she wasn't going to stop in time so she tried to pull out onto the shoulder. Problem with that was that the car in front of her had the same idea. She then cut the Jeep back to the right to get back in her lane and it commenced to flip over. It flipped three times, and everybody lived. I was driving a Ford Escape and had absolutely no problem because I tend not to pay attention to what is happening on the side of the road unless it is headed my way.

[Dan Morris]

Ya mean I can't traverse a 30% slope ??????????????Can't climb rocks where the horses won't go?????????????I can't go faster on ice or snow????????
Dang, I don't know if I want one of them.........................

Dan
:cool:

[Allen]

Fabs, I saw the same wreck, but it was just south of Birmingham Alabama about 5 years ago. I was going north and she was going south. I saw this large dust cloud in the in the median just ahead of me and while I was trying to figure out what was going on there was an explosion of papers ( two boxes with several thousand pages according to the driver) coming out of the cloud followed by a Jeep Cherokee. I dont know how many times she flipped in the dust cloud but I saw two as she came out of the dust. The Jeep came to a stop on its wheels just 50-60 feet from me. I guess I could have been rear ended because I thought she was coming into my lane and I came to a very quick stop.

The GOOD thing was that she was not badly hurt and there were no other wrecks caused by it. The FUNNY thing was the woman after the Jeep stopped. She came out of it like she was shot out of a canon. We had to chase her down and make she sit down to see if she was hurt.

She said that see looked away and when she looked back traffic was stopped. She went into the median to miss the car in front of her only to find the reason everyone was stopped was a tow truck loading a car. She over corrected in the soft grass and dirt and the rest is history.

Sure is different to see the real thing, not what they do on TV. I was surprised that after it was all over and I was back on the road that it had somewhat rattled me. Just glad no one was hurt.

Allen

[fabsroman]

Yeah, seeing those kind of things is pretty scary. For the most part, the 4 women in the Jeep I saw flip were okay, but one did have a bump on her head the size of a softball. Amazing to think that a vehicle can flip so many times and people aren't very injured. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't plan on trying that kind of stuff out in my F-350 just to see if I can walk away without any injuries.

I wonder why we hear about the SUV flipping problem but we do not hear anything about pickups. Is it because pickups don't have quite as high a center of gravity? I know my F-350 is the same frame and almost everything else as the Ford Excursion, but the Excursion just has a roof over the bed. The Expedition is the same thing as the F-150, but with the roof over the bed. Is it just because people that drive pickups have been driving them long enough to understand that you cannot make quick corrections while driving them?

[Mil Dot]

Fabs,

It could be a number of things or a combination. ie tranny gear ratios, the extra weight of the seats and cab(put an equivalent amount of weight in your truck bed and see how it handles) etc.

I'd still lay the majority of rolls on driver error. The SUVs have become like rolling offices for corporate America and small businesses. All of the District Supervisors and Loss Prevention folks for my company are driving Ford SUVs.

[PJgunner]

I have a 1998 Ford Explorer Sport 4x4 and I hate it. Actually, it is my wife's car and every time she's out with it I fear for her life, even though she is an extremely careful driver. Why do I feel this way? I was driving in the right hand lane in a 45 MPH speed zone doing probably 40 MPH due to some slow moving vehicle when the rectal oriface pulls out of a KFC driveway and tries to occupy the space I happen to be in.:eek: All I can do is wrench the wheel to the left and pray nobody is in the left lane. That damned Explorer ended up on two wheels for what seemed like forever, and we damn near did roll over.
I don't know if you remember the big fuss Consumer Reports had over the Suzuki Samurai, but I had one, a 1987. Tooling down the freeway at 65 MPH and an 18 wheeler just cuts me off changing lanes. Again, I had to throw the wheel over to get away from him. That Suzuki stuck to the road like it was a sports car. No lean to the side, no wheels leaving the ground. My Toyota 4x4 pickup sits as high off the ground as the Explorer, yet does not exhibit the crappy handling that the Explorer has. I'd dump it in a heartbeat, but my wife argues that it's paid for. Considering the quality of new cars today, I don't think I'd be better off with whatever else is available. Ever since that close call, it gets driver very little. So little in fact, that although it will be seven years old come the middle of October, it has less than 28,000 miles on it.
Paul B.

[fabsroman]

The good thing about technology is that the cars are coming with stuff to help prevent them from rolling over. Somehow, I think the Samurai would flip just as easily as the Explorer with all things being equal (e.g., the same manuevers, the same amount of weight/passengers in the vehicle). Ford has something in the Explorer now that allows it to sense a quick manuever and, i believe, adjust speed by braking. Volvo has the same concept with their SUV that came out a couple of years ago. Of course, Ford owns Volvo, so it probably borrowed the technology.

My feeling is that I am going to buy the Expedition or Excursion SUV and unless whatever blocking the road is bigger than me, I plan on plowing through it. These monster SUV's are better off going in a straight line than trying a high speed manuever.

[Valigator]

A few years ago...I was on Florida's turnpike heading back home southbound from Orlando.....probably at a pretty good clip...as I always do.......just got the suburban ....exit at commercial blvd. come up and I proceed off....well with nothin in that tail end...I about lost it ...all I could feel is that back end slidin around to my front....but since I am the best driver I know.....I got a handle on it.....but I never made that mistake again.....

[myEspringr]

i've got an 01' explorer , i use for hunting and to and from work. never once have i had prob. with 2 wheel stands. i drive over anything and everything even tow trailer with it. i get tired of all the bad publicity about suv's. my wife had an escape and never a prob. either. it's all about being able to control your vehicle.

[gregarat]

Ive got a problem with my 95 Jimmy. It sucks too much gas! If I knew I was moving to Florida, after I bought the thing. I woulda got a lill rice burner instead. Its good for the winters, and for hunting in Upstate N.Y.. Here its just a drag.

I remember in Syracuse, people drove S.U.V.s beond their handling. Just cause you have a four wheel drive vehical, it doesnt mean you are invanerable to loosing control on ice.
It doesnt at all occur to these dummys that their "truck" weighs twice as much as a car, therefore this object in motion, has double the inertia. Basic physics theory should be inserted into the owners manuel! Four wheel drive may help prevent skidding, but it doesnt help worth a squat when you ARE skidding.

What am I saying? I cant even explain Inertia to my "briliant" girlfreind, when Im fowling her while she eraticly zipps around the traffic in Jacksonville. :rolleyes: Mabe I should drive closer to her bumper, when she unexpectedly changing lanes, or slams on the brake.:D

I would kill for a S10, or even a (sigh) Honda right now.

[fabsroman]

Is Inertia equal to mass times velociity? Or is that momentum or energy? My physics is getting rusty, that's why I ask.

[gregarat]

I just got home from work, so by brain isnt working right at the moment.

Anyhow... Mass times eceleration equals force



Physics - Inertia

Newtons Second Law

A property of mass is its resistance to a change of velocity. This is quantified by Newtons second law which says that the acceleration is:

*Proportional to the net external force.
*Inversely proportional to its mass.
*In the direction of the force.

In other words

f =ma

*f =net force
*m=mass
*a =acceleration

There is also an equivalent for rotation.

T=Ia

*T=torque
*I=inertia Tensor
*a =angular acceleration.


In plain english...... A body in motion stays in motion, and a body at rest stays at rest.

Anyhow this body needs rest.
So g night all. Or I should say morning.

[Mil Dot]

I guess the car builders are to blame. All Suvs' should be designed like 5/4's . No power steering, straight rear axel, no A/C, straight stick manual transmission, super low gear ratios and a top end of 50mph or so. Let's see 'im roll one of those in afternoon traffic! Take folks back to the days when driven demanded all your attention just to go 50mph and keep it between the white lines. You drive a 5/4 down the road and Hyundai drivers will start understanding why there are rearview mirrors in their cars, I don't think they had power brakes either.

How does that Law go : an object in motion will continue in motion until acted on by another force.

Folks, my initial intent and frustration remains the same. The vast majority of suv rolls have very little to do with the suvs. Sure there are instances where the design failed and thats why there are courts. Imo, the bottom line is still that a truck is a truck, no matter the bells, whistles and conveniences. It doesn't handle, react or respond like a car. If you want to drive something which handles and responses like a car buy a car and if you buy a car just remember I'm the guy in you're mirror drivng a truck when you cut me off. It handles like a truck so you best give me some space because it doesn't handle like a car and I don't expect it to. The space I leave between me and the person in front of me is there for a reason. I make wider turns because I have a longer wheel base. I start braking sooner because I have more weight to stop. I park farther out at Walmart because my vehicle doesn't fit in those little car spaces. The only thing I swerve for is something bigger than me and kids.

People like suv's because they're higher up and they can see above traffic, unfortunately the price for that attribute is a higher center of gravity and worse handling performance. You're always going to have idiots pulling in front of you, riding your tailpipe so your vehicle of choice for commuting may not be an suv but may be a 80's Buick LeSabre or Ford station wagon.

Fabs, My physics is on a NTK basis, no rust involved! Bigger wins!

[fabsroman]

Mil Dot,

I like your third paragraph and agree completely with it. What is funny is that my fiance has never driven a truck or SUV before, but thinks she will be able to drive an Expedition without problem. Meanwhile, she is scared to death to drive my F-350 crew cab. Granted, my truck is a little bigger than the Expedition, but it comes a lot closer to replicating the Expedition than her Hyundai Sonata.

As far as preferring my truck over my car, I really don't. I like the fact that almost nobody cuts me off in traffic and that almost everybody respects my turn signal. When I am driving my Taurus, people cut in front of me all the time and when I put my turn signal on people try to close down the gap on me. A couple of months ago, I put my left turn signal on to change to the middle lane. Well, some rice burner with a couple of punks in it came up the left lane and were trying to zip into the spot I wanted. They looked over at me, I looked over at them, and then I proceeded to move into the space because they backed off. My truck also has better acceleration than my Taurus, but then so does my bicycle.

Essentially, ride height doesn't really matter to me. I like trucks and SUV's because of the off road capability, which my Taurus has done plenty of. I also like them because of the amount of passenger and cargo space that they offer. I don't think I could get a station wagon that hauls as many people or as much cargo as an Excursion, but then again, the fiance will not let me get an Excusion because she is scared to drive it and she doesn't want to drive a loud diesel engine.


Thanks for the physics lessons guys. Now I remember why I hated that class in high school.

[Jabba]

Originally posted by gregarat

In other words

f =ma

*f =net force
*m=mass
*a =acceleration



Actually energy or momuntum = mass * velocity SQUARED.

Just like in ballistics... and that is what a car is. When you double the speed you quadruple the momentum. When you double the mass, you double the momentum.

:D

Jabba

[Rocky Raab]

I agree: it's the drivers, not the vehicles.

Put some of these idiots in an Abrahms tank, and they could lose control and flip it.

My Dad was a trucker, and he taught me to drive - like a trucker. The Air force taught me to fly, and also taught me to apply those skills to driving. So now, I guess I drive like a jet trucker.

That doesn't mean I drive supersonic. It means I drive WAY ahead of my vehicle. I constantly pick escape paths and actions to handle "what ifs" and "oh sheets".

And I dearly love my Durango.

[DaMadman]

Originally posted by Jabba
Actually energy or momuntum = mass * velocity SQUARED.

Just like in ballistics... and that is what a car is. When you double the speed you quadruple the momentum. When you double the mass, you double the momentum.

:D

Jabba

My Dad wasn't a trucker and I never flew a jet but we study the same principles Rocky. Always drive way in front and always hav a what if plan.

[gregarat]

Always drive way in front and always have a what if plan. Heck thats a pholosify works for alot in life.:)

[Valigator]

My motto for the road..."Get it, while the gettin is good"