World War III

[Andy L]

Are we in it now?

Does it seem to anyone that we could be in World War III right now and just not realizing it yet? It seems realistic that we will have to deal with Syria and Iran in the near future. North Korea may have to be dealt with as well.

Were the planes hitting the world trade center the first real shots fired in the next big one? It just seems to me that there are alot of things that are pretty much beyond repair and it could escalate quickly.

If so, whos gonna side with us and who against? What about the ones we need to pay real attention to such as China and Russia? Are they really our allies?

This is getting a little scary. Maybe Im reading too much into it, but it seems that things are getting pretty heated in alot of places. Mainly the middle east, but if someone like the new head of Iran decides to force the issue, Im afraid all hell could break loose in a hurry.

What do yall think?

Andy

[TreeDoc]

We've sold out to China and our liberal government wants us to sympathize with the Muslims so my suggestion is start learning the Chinese language and start studying the Qr an. It's only a matter of time before this nations sovereignty and identity is completely compromised.

[fabsroman]

Truthfully, I do not want to think about it because I have thought about it enough over the years. The loss of life will be insane if there is a World War III and I hesitate to think what the losing side might do in a last ditch effort to win. However, I do think the issues in the Middle East could be a serious catalyst to some serious fighting.

[Classicvette63]

Not too worry. The U.S armed citizen is the greatest army to ever walk the face of the earth. People just need to see thru this politically correct crap. If we'd have kicked all of the muslims out on 9/12 we wouldn't have the problems we have now.

Actually, you want to know how to save 5.6 TRILLION dollars of taxpayer money? Don't let some limp wrist like Truman get in the White House. That is how much we have spent on nuclear weapons since the '40's. Why some jagoff like truman would spend weeks considering using nukes vs. having a ton of our guys slaughtered is beyond me. Seems like Patton and Mc Arthur had it right after all.

[Hawkeye6]

The events of September 11, 2001 were not the opening shots. Remember USS Cole? Remember our embassies in Africa? Remember the Khobar Towers? Remember our inneffectual responses to these under Clinton? I do.

My own personal belief is that NK is not a significant threat to us. To China and Japan, yes, but not to the US. The risk that NK represents is if it sells some of its weapons or weapons technology to a group of mad mullahs.

I expect that we will see this war go on for decades. Both of my sons are currently serving. Neither of them are particulary more at risk than any other American right now, but they will be standing to the colors into the next decade at least. So who know what will happen on their watch?

I watched NBC, I think it was last Friday night and saw Tom Brokaw's special report on Iraq, the Middle East and the war on terror. His show convinced me that there is only one way out of this one. Its to fight them, fight them hard and kill them. I do not beleive that we can make peace with the mad mullahs and OBL. I do not think that we can come to terms with them and retain any semblence of Western Civilization. (I'm not sure that was his intention, but ...)

Since, in my opinion we have to fight them, I'd rather we fight them there than in NYC, Chicago or Saint Louis.

Hawkeye

[Andy L]

Hawkeye,
I do remember the other attacks and the Clinton head turning. What I meant was that was the first serious attack on US mainland and the final straw, so to speak.

You also made a good point about NK. I cant for the life of me figer out why China dont slap the snot out of that banty rooster and put that threat to bed. They are next door and do pose a great threat to them.

Classic, I agree that we have the best military that has ever graced the face of the planet. But its ignorant to believe we can take on the world alone.

God help us if it hits the fan and China and Russia end up on the other side.

Andy

[fabsroman]

"The U.S armed citizen is the greatest army to ever walk the face of the earth."

That might have been true 200 years ago, but I seriously doubt that the entire U.S. Armed Citizen population could beat 10 Chinese tanks unless the tanks ran out of bullets, shells, and gas. The everyday firearms is nothing compared to the military technology that is out there.

[Skinny Shooter]

Fabs, I hope we never have to go to war on our soil. But...
If an invader makes that mistake, Americans will rise up as the unorganized militia to defend the Homeland.
Many Americans will die facing a modern army till we can start to arm ourselves with the invaders weapons and turn them back against them. Our sheer numbers will be a major factor. Read about the Russians against the Germans.

If I had to face a tank with a rifle, I'd pick the time and place.
Tank crew members can't stay buttoned up forever. Once they pop-up out of their holes like little skinnys, I'd try to stop them, 7.62 millimeters at a time. The tank tracks are a vulnerable spot too.
And too add, if any of the above happened, I'd be crapping my pants but as an American I'd have no choice but to act. It's my duty.

Allen

[Steverino]

Historically speaking, this nation was founded on "not playing by the rules" and adopting guerilla-war tactics when facing enemies on our homeland and agree with Skinny that small arms will be an intregal part of turning the modern weapons of war against an invading force.

The use of well trained marksmen and snipers has changed the advance of troops since the Civil War. The Battle of Stalingrad proved a pivotal moment during WWII when Russians faced a "superior" army.

Hope it never comes down to it but this is another primed reason that Americans should be armed. The frontier has indeed changed but it's just as dangerous.

Keep yer powder dry!

;)

[Skinny Shooter]

Hey Jack, bet ya just knew I'd bite when "Chinese tanks" got mentioned. :D

Here's something else, the "death by a thousand cuts" doctrine can work for anyone facing a "superior" force.

Why is it that people can't work out their differences without resorting to armed conflict is beyond me...

I'm fascinated with the culture and history of China and would enjoy visiting that country but never will as long as the current gov't is in power.

Allen

[PJgunner]

Don't know if it's true or not, but if it isn't, it should be. Supposedly, one of the Japanese military leaders, or maybe it was the Emperor, I forget, was asked why they din't attack the U.S. immediately after Pearl Harbor? Supposedly, the answer was, "Because there would have been a rifle behind every blade of grass."

Fast foreward to a few year back. When Russia attacked Afghanistan that turned out to be their Viet Nam, and the Russian leaders had a lot more resolve towards winning there that Lame Brain Johnson did in Viet Nam.

I think the first blow was struck when Iran took our embassy people hostage and that jackass peanut farmer wrung his hand and said, "Woe is me." An American embassyis considered to be American soil, just as a Russian embassy would be considered Russian soil.Note that as soon as Ronald Reagan was being sworn in, the hostages were free ond homeward bound.
Guess the old Ayatollah wasn't quite ready to meet Allah yet. I hope his death was a painful one and the place where he now resides is extremely hot.

Paul B.

[Valigator]

I dont think WW111 will be a ground war....and no one will go in trying to democasize anything....(spelling)

[myEspringr]

:confused: if you figure the odds of war on our soil, i'm not that conviced that many americans would step up to it. the only ones that would even show up are hunters, and other retired military.
no average american even has a firearm, most are to afraid or would just hide in their homes. the U.S. is to vulnerable to stand ground for very long. i lost a lotta respect for bush. he had back up to goin' over to iraq. at first yeah poss. good idea but once stuff started blowin' up in his face about the reasons he sent the troops there. what did he think he was gonna accomplish by goin' there?
they can't even catch b***h laden. so let's go in a another country spread everyone out. i'm all for kickin' someones arse for the right reasons but how many troops does this country need to lose. it's a war i don't think is gonna end for awhile.
my input on this let's go to iraq , well, i think bush did it to get higher prices on oil, since he does have his hand in oil.
whether i'm right or wrong it was not for the right reasons.
there's my two cents. sorry so long kinda venting.
:rolleyes:

[Andy L]

Are you John Kerry in disguise?? :D

Just Kiddin....

[AZZAFOX]

Awkeye you fogot one small but important one. Somailia, The Mogue(Mogadishu). Al Queda had been sending its experienced Mujhadeen in there to train up an elite unit for Farah adid's. This unit in turn was responsible for training those RPG specialists who took down two Black Hawk transports.

Clinton comes into power and they pulled out. A huge mistake that was the boost the terroists around the world needed.

If the 10th mountain, Special forces and the operators were allowed to stay and finish he job, it would have shown america had still got some metal in its resolve.

Plus your US army could have gained some useful insight on how to deal with insurgents and how to fight in an urban environment. Key doctrine would be small unit tactics, something your learning off our units who are posted over in Iraq.

You might find it funny, but some of our troops are detached to teach your boys small unit tactics. I hope that this will reduce your casualties and thus have more mothers being able to hug thers boys/gals when they get home, and not recieve the folded stars and stripes.

I just hope this parody never comes true.
D.R.A.F.T.
http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/138/

Couple of Saddam parodies too.

The Real Hussein This ones all about the body doubles he had.
http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/88/

Iraq Without Me A perfect parody that is a follow on from the fist song. All about his capture.

http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/89/

[Lilred]

Ya'll probaly wont like what I gotta say...but this here is just a good ole honest opinion..I truly think..that iffin a huge army invaded this soil...the good ole average joe would run like a scalded dog downhill.
Well..let me rephrase that. not the "average" joe...but the new breed of man that has seemed to come about the past 10 years.
Most of em nowadays got the conviction of a old blue tick hound on a front porch.
However..I can safely say that fer every fool out there like that, there will be some to take his place on the line.
It wouldnt be that easy to bring..say fer example..50,000 men over here and drop em outta the sky. Nope..iffin they wanted rid of us..all it takes is a nuke. Say...3 nukes. Wham, bam thank you ma'am kind of thing.
I caint say that I fear a WWIII. The odds are slim. And, like I said, wouldnt be a war iffin all the opponents are all dead, melted er whatever. I fear the self-destruction of the country. "The land of the free" is a great thing back when people had morals. Now, that phrase is the land of the "marry-whatever-you-want, dump-yer-kids-in-a-trunk, killin-cheatin-lyin, watch-it-all-on-tv-and-learn-how-to-be-a-successful-sexual-predator" kinda free. Free to do whatever the hell you want.
I dont think that's what it was intended fer. Aww well, I aint gonna go on and on..but, in short, I fear US more than I fear THEM.

[AZZAFOX]

For a citizen of the U.S to say they fear there own country is refreshing. The general consensus down under is that most city based and semi rural Aussies fear the US and the possibility of a madman at at the helm. Plus quite a few people are weary of GW bush due to he front he puts on. It scares people to think "someone so dumb and outta touch" is running the worlds only super power. Another thing people are saying is how hypercritcal America is, especially on human rights issues.

I personally lost all respect for the US army when I trained against them. The white trash elements I saw worried me. Fatigues cant hide scum, nor can they cover up an all conquering attitude. Only saying what I saw.

I know for a fact there are still some good people on your soil, but Lil red your right, some elements are ruining your country. Unfortunately some of those attitudes are being exported. ipoint the finger at Rap(so called music) bringing about the demise of my countries teens vocabulary. The americaniseation of Aussie
English is leading o a decline in our unique slang terms that used be a distinct part of culture. The day G'day is replaced by "Whats up dog" or "Bro" is a sad and some what disheartening consequence of young people loseing the one thing that counts, there cultural Identity. Thats my rant

Get a dog up ya and have drink on me mates.

AZZA your upside down cyber buddy. ;)

[myEspringr]

Kerry:eek: don't even get me started on that friggin' backpeddlin' two faced suckbag.

i'm withya lilred on a lotta things have changed. land of the free, well whats' free? freedom of speech is about gone.
another thing that ticks me off is celebrities that get away with crimes, just cause they can afford a high priced attorney.
it's all crap, the misses and i have a baby on the way and a 6 and 8 yr old and every once in awhile i have to ask muself why am bringin' kids into world. i almost feel bad cause by the time they are my age there prob. won't be much of anything left.
iam amazed @ how our troops have held their ground over in iraq considering how out numbered they are. i support them i just don't support why they are there. yeah and another couple years i see theD.R.A.F.T comin' back, what choice will there be? the forces talk about how much recruitment is down.

[Lilred]

I dont think Bush is necessarily dumb..I just truly think the media likes to pick on him cause he's Southern. Which Azza, bein Southern is a "culture" of the US. We aint like Northerners.
Bush does have morals tho..we caint blame the President but so much fer the way things are here.
He is just but 1 man vs. millions of people. It's the decline of a "person" as a whole, imho, that ruins this nation.
Another thing is our media. My hubby and me were talkin the other night bout the state of this ole werld. Bout how every night you hear of babies raped, killed ,people tortured, so forth & so on. It was makin me just plum distraught..and my hubby brought up a point. He says, that 20 yrs ago people still did that kinda thing, but you never heared tell bout it. The news wouldnt report such blasphemous things. That there is good argument. Was it really that way or was people generally morally better 20 yrs ago? I think the latter, he says its cause on counta the news aint report such things.
But, fer arguements sake, let's say he's right. It dern sure aint hurt me none not knowin, and I truly think it made me better fer it. How do you say?? Because it was considered the god-awfulest thing..like gay marriages. It just aint allowed, no way, no how. Period.
Now that all that has the spotlight, you got gay marriages and you got the morals of the US goin straight to hell in a handbasket. "cause if everybody else is doin it, we should be able to do it..it's a free country, right?"

However, I caint say that we have to run a country based on a "belief or moral". That is impossible and would take away the Constitional rghts that good ole Thomas Jefferson gave us. But then again, I dont think gay marriages was on his mind at the time either.
We are called the melting pot..we got Japenese, Russian, European, Mexican, African, Asian...all kinds of people over here. All w/ their own cultures.
Where in God's name is OUR culture???
Is the hard-headed Southerner the only form of American culture there is left? (My version of culture meanin: a group of people who commonly have the same beliefs, morals ..so forth & so on)

Maybe I shouldnt be sayin anythin..all this is comin from a girl who was raised up in the late 70's/early 80's..but was livin in the 1800's so to speak. We still strung baccer up to smoke by hand, still said grace, and was brought up by a strict Southern parents.
I aint very open-minded at all..lol
I know 1 dern thing...my kids'll still be raised sayin yessir & yes ma'am, we'll still be playin blugrass much to the dismay of 90% of the general population, and we'll still think grits is best served w/ buttermilk.

[Andy L]

Amen.

If more people thought like that, Lilred, and thought less about what is politically correct and how not to hurt the feelings of the freaks, yeah, theres freaks in the world, always have been and always will be, we would still be a better and stronger country.


Andy

[Valigator]

Lilred, just a brief comment on the gay marriage thing....I guess there is alot of money behind that movement....since most dont have to pay for a college education for their kids, no wonder, but down here...they throw this stuff in your face on a daily basis until its almost like they are "conditioning" you to accept it, until its so common place you'll just learn to live with....do you know what I mean? I have the second largest Gay community in the United States right about 4 miles from me....and being a southern girl you know I am starting to feel like I am the outsider...BS on that crap.....I let it be known....I dont do business with queens...I dont like them, the hair on the back of my neck stands up when I am around them.....I dont think I'll ever get use to that....hey its a malfunction in the gene pool....and in the end...it will be their own worst enemy...at least we dont have to worry about them breeding into infinity....thank God for small favors...

[myEspringr]

well it doesn't get much closer to home about this gay marriage than my sister is actualy having a ceromony this year. it won't be legal but i guess it's as close as it get's since it's illegal in this state. i'm not for gay marriage but i do love my sister, a few months ago she went to visit our mother and well she told her to leave when she broke the news.i still think they aren't talkin'. i knew she was gay for awhile but she would not admit it till a couple years ago. i have always been disgusted by gays , i feel like hypocrit when it comes to my sister though. i guess that since she is blood and it's a woman now if one of my brothers came back and say they were gay it would prob. be diff. and def. harder to accept. i'm not religiose but it does state in the bible that basicly bein' gay is wrong.
as far as bush well we are better off with him in office instead of kerry, i just don't like this whole issue of the troops. they are still tryin' to find three that were lost in affganistan. we are losing more and more of them. :(

[captain2k_ca]

I don't want the world to go to war.

I am not in the military.

But I stand ready to don uniform and rifle in the defense of my Nations defence, and the defence of the defenseless. If my Country gives the call, I am ready to give to them the ultimate sacrifice.

[Valigator]

Sorry you have those family issues....things can be hurtful and people dont always become what our ideal of them should be...just remember in the end ...no matter what society thinks of any particular group or what their moral or religious feelings are...family is family and in the end that is all that matters....we are here if you need to talk.....and dont take the gay thing too personal ...she is your sister not someone from a different planet...she probably needs your shoulder more than ever...and she probably will for a long time......

PS two of those troops down in the chopper are from here...remember why they are there....and when you get bummed out about this or your support starts to waiver...replay the twin towers going down, remember the whole in the earth in Penn. from that plane...think of the suffering of the persons in the Pentagon.....and as long as our guys are there and some are still coming home in body bags...just say a prayer and show your gratitude to them by supporting their efforts....

[Andy L]

I think if we got invaded, I would be alot like Skinny. I got enough ammo loaded for enough rifles to play hell with some folks at long range for a while.

These ole river hills just south of my house are pretty rugged and I know of several caves to hole the family up in and it would be hard to get to us on foot without getting shot. We find alot of indian relics in there. I think they had the same idea.

Andy

[Hawkeye6]

Originally posted by Valigator

PS two of those troops down in the chopper are from here...remember why they are there....and when you get bummed out about this or your support starts to waiver...replay the twin towers going down, remember the whole in the earth in Penn. from that plane...think of the suffering of the persons in the Pentagon.....


Val, I'm glad you said that. Its easy to see youhave not foregotten.

Notice that the news media doesn't talk much about that any more. Guess it might "inflame" us or something if they reminded us of what really stimulated us out of our lethargy. Its a lot more fun to wail about quagmires and pretend how stupid the President is. (Of course, none of them focus on just where his degress came from and the fact that a "C" average from an early '60s Ivy League school actually meant something -- not like A's and B's form today's grade-inflated schools of "journalism". I can't believe how many idiots out there fall for the media's schtick on that one!)

I'd really like to see somebody put together a montage of stills from September 11, USS Cole, the Embassies, etc. with the country song "Have you foregotten?" running in the background.

Hawkeye

[Andy L]

I sure havent forgotten either. I do seem to be in the minority now days though. I know exactly why we are in both places and doing what needs to be done. I dont like seeing our boys go down anymore than anyone, but thats part of war.

It makes me sick to think about the planes hitting those towers. The other attacks do as well, but that was, for lack of a better term, the pinnacle. Then, there were people marching the streets, shaking fists in the air wanting every terrorist in the world killed. Couldnt wait to get our troops over to the middle east to kick some tail. Now its sickening how alot of those same people are crawfishing and cursing our president for getting us into this war. Guess it wasnt a sanitary, tv war that fit their tastes just right. These terrorists have to be rooted out like the rats they are and killed. And tragic as it is, we are going to lose a few lives in the process. Compare the time we have been at war with any other war we have been in before and compare the American casualty numbers. Ones too many, but its very low and we are fighting one of the hardest fights ever.

And, before anyone steps up, I dont care what reason was used, Iraq had nothing to do with oil. There are many reasons for going in there as well as after bin Laden. It was, and still is, the right thing to do. Lets see, genocide, torture, oil for food, chemical weapons (yes they were there, too many signs of it), harboring terrorists, funding terrorists, the list goes on. He had to come down. And he did.

I havent forgotten either Val and Hawkeye.....

Andy

[myEspringr]

My apologies to everyone about the subject os missing soldiers, i understand the reasons over in affganistan, but iraq is my issue, i was venting and was not thinkin' about which troops were MIA that was pretty dumb of me. now bush need s to get these two issues resolved before we send anyone to another country.

[Valigator]

Thats where your wrong...we dont have to resolve any issues anywhere before we commit to anyplace....thats what America is about...our country goes in where its needed when its needed...somebody smell anything in Iraq? I do....North Korea? I do....The world isnt gonna wait for nice and tidy endings to engage in conflicts...heck you might see us anyplace at anytime, thats why a coalition of countries who share the same hopes and ideals are so important.....
The next time someone brings up the Weapons of Mass Destruction Argument.....which in my gut I know are there, show them a picture of a plane going into a building...I would say thats destruction on a massive scale...when we still cant find over 2000 bodies....on our own soil...:(

[Valigator]

You know I wasnt goin to bring this up...but this just happened last week in my office....a patient came in I recogonized from a few years ago...older man and a thick German accent....then it hit me...I remember him saying he had been in the German Army WW11....I seated him...Doctor came in..we did our prelims on the guy...and we have TV's in every operatory...this man started beating Bush to death on some issue that came up on CNN...As I was doing my thing and listening ....I snapped...I flipped around and out of my mouth came stuff I had no control over....I still dont recall all of it....I do know it started with " You better remember, you as an immigrant, and a German soldier no less, should get down on the ground and Thank God your in this country" my doctors eyes got as wide as dinner plates. I kept going, "Just remember you are in the most powerful country in the world" and there is a damn good reason for it"...Nobody said nothing for a while, we finished our procedure...all the while I am thinking Valerie, my God talking to a patient like that...I was wondering what my doctor was gonna say afterwards....well, he never said anything....he and I are on the same page about most everything..dont know why I brought this up...but sometimes you have to take a stand...

[tooldummy]

Good for you Val!!!!
I wish more citizens had the nerve to stand up and speak their minds to immigrants that come to this country for a better life and then b***h about how bad it is and the supposed injustices imposed on them. AMERICAN men fought that man and his army to give him the freedom he is now over here enjoying. He and his croanies fought tooth and nail against AMERICAN GI's. I wonder if Hitler would have stood for him questioning his policies?
It's time AMERICANS take a stand, before it's too late. I'm sick and tired of AMERICANS catering to foreigners that come to this country. Why should AMERICANS have to learn a second or third language? Why should AMERICANS pay for health care for illigal immigrants, when we can't afford to go to the doctors ourselves? Why should AMERICANS fight and die for other countries, and then listen to immigrants b***h about our leaders? What gives them the right? I'd like nothing better than to load them all up in a leaky boat and send them back where they came from!

[myEspringr]

WRONG...WELL THAT LIT MY FUSE . AFGANISTAN WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GET AT B***H LADEN, AND NOW LOOK HE IS BASICALY FUNDING THE TALIBAN AND THEY ARE COMIN' @ OUR SOLDIERS. TALK TO ME ABOUT 5 YRS FROM NOW WHEN WE HAVE ABOUT 10,000 DEAD SOLDIERS IN IRAQ BECAUSE WE STUCK OUR NOSES IN THE BEES NEST.
JUST CAUSE SADAM WAS MESSIN' WITH HIS OWN PEOPLE WAS KNOW REASON TO GO OVER THERE. WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, WHAT A JOKE. OH, AND WE ARE NOT THE MOST POWERFUL, THINK ABOUT CHINA WE WOULD GET SMOKED. THAT WOULD LIKE GETTIN' IN A BADGERS HOLE AND TELLIN' HIM WHAT IS UP. WE CAN'T HANDLE WHAT IS GOIN' ON THERE NOW . I HONESTLY THINK THAT THE TOWERS WAS JUST A WARNING.GO BACK TO WHEN THE SOVIET TRIED TO TAKE OVER AFGANISTAN AND THEY FOUGHT BACK WITH BASICALY STICKS AND STONES AND DROVE THEM RIGHT BACK OUT.

[myEspringr]

OH AND THEY NEED TO CLOSE THE BORDERS AND WORRY ABOUT THIS COUNTRY INSTEAD OF TAKIN' CARE OF ANYONE ELSE.
DO YOU EVER SEE ANOTHER COUNTRY HELPIN' US WHEN A NATURAL DISASTER HITS, UMM NO. WHAT ABOUT WHEN 9/11 HAPPENED HOW MANY PEOPLE REALLY CAME RUNNIN'? THE U.S. HAS P**SED OFF SO MANY COUNTRIES THAT IT 'S NOT GETTIN' HELP ANYTIME SOON. THIS COUNTRY IS SO FAR IN DEBT THAT IT WILL NEVER GET OUT. WE HAVE MORE IMPORTS THAN EXPORTS TO EVEN IT OUT , AND THAT'S JUST A START. WE KEEP SENDIN' ALL THIS FOREIGN AID OVER SEAS, I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT WHATS THE POINT I'M WRONG ANYWAY.

[fabsroman]

I agree with your second post for the most part, but don't agree too much with the first post above.

I agree that we need to worry about ourselves first. Whether or not the US has pissed off a lot of countries remains to be debated. A lot of countries might be pissed off at us, but we might not have pissed them off. They might just be pissed because they think we are better than them.

I completely agree that China would be a serious power to reckon with if there was a World War and what really scares me is that China is now telling Congress to keep its nose out of a major oil company take over by a Chinese company. Congress is worrried about the takeover from a national security stand point and I am willing to bet that China wants that oil company for a national security reason.

We have a bunch of things to worry about, but at the end of the day 10,000 troops over 5 years isn't a big deal. We lost 4,000+ people in a single day on 9/11. How many were lost in World War II over a 5 year period? Something tells me a lot more than 10,000. Just did a search and it was slightly over 400,000 lives lost in World War II.

I know, a single life is hard to lose, but sometimes it has to be done. I watched Saving Private Ryan the other night and the way that Tom Hanks' character dealt with having 96 men killed under his command was by telling himself that the death of those 96 men saved over 100 times that many lives in the long run.

War sucks, but sometimes it is inevitable. War is usually the result of envy over somebody having something while the other person doesn't. Kind of like a starving lion having to watch another lion eat a kill. Since the resources on this planet are limited and the human population continues to multiply exponentially, there will be plenty of war.

[Skinny Shooter]

Yeah, Saddam never used WMDs on his own people or the Iranians. My mistake.

Saddam never had a plane fuselage that was used for terrorist training.

Whoops, there I go again.
That was for the Republican Guard to train for anti-hijacking procedures... uh huh :rolleyes:

Yep, the Afghans kicked Russian butt on their own, like we kicked British butt on our own during the Rev War...

A free and stable Iraq isn't a good thing in the Middle East either :rolleyes:

What you should really be pissed at is the UN for limiting Daddy Bush from rolling over the entire country the first time around. We were in a much better position to take names after killing off many of the Iraqi military.

I've read that Kerry got lower grades in college than our own "stupid" GW. But then GW's daddy must have bribed the college just like the Guard... :rolleyes:

We are partly in Iraq for oil and that is a good thing. Our national security at this time depends on the free flow of oil among other things. That is reality.

edited to add:

I believe in freedom of speech but these attacks against Bush and the general direction America is heading is doing nothing but helping the enemy. And emboldening him/her to continue the resistance. There's a time to protest and there's a time to swallow your pride or whatever it is and support the entire situation and keep your trap shut. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem...
Not just cop out and say "I support the troops but President Bush is wrong". That's not support for the troops when you demoralize them.
So think about that the next time you hear of a US soldier or Marine getting killed.
The media is the biggest culprit next to the Libs who want to see this country fall and fail on the world stage.
Allen

[Andy L]

Yeah Skinny, those buildings and mobile labs were used for making medicine for his people. Not chemical weapons. He only had a year or so warning, not nearly enough time to hide anything in the desert or send it to Syria or Iran, which they sure wouldnt have anything to do with terrorism.....

Anyone who thinks Saddam had nothing at all to do with terror attacks against the US is living in a dream world. Some of its coming out, some never will. And the UN, supposed to be our best friend. What a joke. Who needs enemies when you got firends like that, conspiring with a sworn enemy by giving him money to fight you with.

I think maybe we ought to pick our friends a little closer. And as for other countries and what they think, I dont care. I spent some time with a German fellow this year. I was intrigued, at first. I was very interested in his culture and how they percieve America. I listened to his ignorant views, mainly because he is ignorant. All he knows is what they government media wants him to know. No wonder he hates GW, America and everything we stand for and do. He doesnt see the other side of it. I finally got pretty tired of him. If thats the way they think as a whole, as he claims, I have no plans of Europe, ever. I would much rather go Down Under, where we do have friends and much more interesting anyway.

I have a friend that just got back from Iraq and is going again. He swears, and this isnt the only place Ive heard it, that the media is not showing us nearly the whole picture. He says that there is much more good things happening than bad. Its kinda like your local news. What do you see more of? Shooting, robbery, drug busts, ect...., or school projects, people getting well and out of the hospital, business openings, ect.... Same over there, according to him, and hes been right in the middle of it. No one wants to hear the good news. Makes me sad to think that hes doing something he really believes in and has people sitting in their recliners over here criticizing him for it.

Freedom of speech is a great thing, isnt it? Thank god, and people like him, you have the right to cuss your government and its decisions.

Andy

Edit: Jealousy, from what I could gather from him, is the second cause, next to mis-information, as to why we are hated so bad by the same European countries we saved from Hitler. :rolleyes:

[Wolvie]

So I apoligize in advance,.......

But why are we all standing by and letting this go on?!

As free citizens and also having the knowledge of certain events happening or going to happen,...why are we all standing idly by and allowing ourselves to be open for surprize?!

I say prepare yourself, your family, and rally together with your nieghbors,and friends and your online chums!!!!

I am ready and I have my family ready with a plan.
I can not sit and watch the middle east make me and mine a prisioner in my own home land.
I am not a soldier of the Armed services,..nor have I been,...but I am ready to survive and help those survive with me!!!!

If this is what it takes to let you all know where I stand,... I say Kill ` em All and let GOD sort em out!!! I will defend my home,family and friends and LAND that many died for for centuries!!! And most of ALL my FREEDOM!!!!!!!

RALLY ALL
WOLVIE
IS
HERE!!!!

[Skinny Shooter]

We really do need alternative fuels.
I know, I know, GW and the oil companies have the plans in a giant "lockbox" so they'll get big and fat off of oil profits.

Hydrogen fueled cars are a long way off and some progress is being made there. I'd like to see more advances made in solar energy and wind energy too.

No more domestic companies selling oil to foreign countries until our energy needs are met, then sell the excess to the outside.
More refineries need to be built.

ANWR needs to be developed.

Natural gas off the Carolinas needs to be exploited, etc.

Allen