wrenchman vents he hates cars

[wrenchman]

I have the old family beater i sold my truck and bought the wife a mini van a couple years ago.
well the fuel pump went out a couple weeks ago on the car i new it was the pump but prayed it would be something else so gess what i got to do today all day.
I have come to the conclusion they just dont make cars to be worked on give me a large truck any day i would even take a pick up.
All i want to know is ho had the good idea to stick the fuel pump in the tank< i would slap him in the head if i ever meet him> all i want this thing to do is last one more year and i will get another pick up.

[gumpokc]

well i can't say it's a great idea, but i was told once that they did it so that the fuel in the tank could help cool the pump.

of course then that brings up the question...hmm....hot pump....fuel tank...hot pump...fuel tank...???

no idea if it is correct or not, just what i was told.

[Andy L]

I hear ya wrenchman. I had the same thing happen to me when I was in college. I didnt have the tools or knowhow to fix it and didnt have the money to take it to someone that did, to drop the tank.

I took a universal inline pump and mounted it on the frame, in the fuel line. Hardest thing was wiring it, but I knew nothing about it either. I ran that thing another 100k with that inline pump.

Just an idea. In the tank pumps are stupid though.....

Andy

Edit: Just in case I was wrong. Its been many many moons since I did this to that car. I dont want you doing something that may make your life even more miserable. I dont remember doing anything special to make it work. Just put the pump inline and hooked it to the fuse box. But, like I said, thats been many moons ago and I might have forgotten something.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

oh boy wrenchman..after being a driver/mechanic in the big rigs for years..(retired)..and owning fords that I had to fix in order to get back to work the next day, I know exactly what you are talking about..they do make things now so we backyard wrenchers have a hard time doing......unless we are about 3'tall and have another joint between the wrist and the elbow...after going through 2 gas tanks in my broncos..had 2 each..because of leaks...rust....lol...ford/rust?...lmao...anyhow..what I ended up doing was to get to the tank pump, I just cut a trap door in the back to get to the top of the tank..pump..you might not want to do this in a pickup....Listen now..I have owned ford trucks/ one thunderbird/ 2 mark lincolns 1 towncar/..2 broncos and more tools to fix all of them I care to talk about...I had to look on the front of my home garage to make sure it didn't have a sign saying 'ford repairs made daily' there..I became the neighborhood mechanic too...I just can't figure out why fords don't come with a spare motor in the trunk instead of spare tire..I never owned one I havn't had to change motors in and I take care of them with my heart..(think is why I had 5 heart attacks)lmao....BUT.and I know this will spark some digs in the never ending story of ford vs chevy vs dodge...etc...but I went to dodge 1500....I opened the hood on the thing and wondered where all the gizmos were..there is 1/2 the things under there that block things like sparkplugs etc...wow...and believe it or not, my tools are getting rusted from lack of use..for real....I know this because my 2 cousins own fords and guess who they bring them to for repairs......the man that knows every bolt in a ford by name..FRED/BOB/JOE..and I just had to toss out all the body fillers and sandpaper I had laying around and replace them with WAX...yep...I actually get to have something I can wax....want to invent something...(they did already called EXTEND)...invent a wax for rust ...anyhow..I sold my mark lincolns as buy one get one free...for real...one for parts...I want to thank you for bringing up a subject that let me vent too....lol....good luck and say hello to FRED/BOB and JOE...I sure don't miss them..

[Andy L]

Funny how different folks have different experiences. I honestly dont think theres a nickles difference in Ford, Chevy or Dodge. Just good and bad experiences.

I bought my first new truck in 1988. It was an 88 Chevy, 3/4 ton 4x4 with the new 350 Fuel Injected. Supposed to be the baddest boy on the block. Went to check some cows on the way home from the dealership and got stuck. The 4x4 wouldnt engage. Had to get a tow truck to come get me, less than 50 miles on it. Then, right after warranty, I had to buy an alternator, which at the time was $400 and that was alot more money in 1988. During warranty, I had multiple problems with the injection system. Not a real good experience.

Then, I bought a 1991 Ford F-150 with the 300, 6 cyl. It did good. No real problems til it got about 70,000 miles, then it started falling apart. It nickled and dimed me to death.

So, I traded for a 1995 Dodge 1500, 4x4 with a 360. The new hot body style and rage. It was great til it got about 45,000 miles on it and I bought a transmission. Didnt have much more trouble with it. Other than some fuel system issues that was nagging.

Then I traded for a 1997 Dodge 1500, 4x4 with the 360. At almost the exact same mileage, another transmission. I couldnt believe it. I was furious. So guess what I went and done?

Traded for a 1999 Dodge 1500, 4x4 with the 360. Smart, aint I? About the same mileage again, the tranny was good, but I had to buy a rear end for it.

So, I traded it for a 2000 GMC 1500, 4x4 with the new 327 or whatever they called that motor. Smoothest riding, and great runing truck. As long as you stayed on the blacktop and didnt hook anything to it. It was a gutless wonder.

So, I traded it for a 2001 F-150 with the big V-8. By now, who the hell knows what size the motors are. No problems with it. But, by this time, I decided not to own one out of warranty, or at least not too long.

Since then, Ive had a 2003 F-250 Powerstroke, and now have a 2004 F-250 Powerstroke. Love them, no problems. But like I said, warranty. I got about another 15k to go and its out. Should be about the time they are wanting rid of the 05s to make way for 06s and got some good sales going on. I will most likely have one. ;)

In my experience, theres no difference. I happen to like the Ford better, but dont know that its a better truck. I think its all personal taste. They are all going to give trouble. You can find people out there for all three brands of trucks that will swear by theirs that has run them for 200,000+ miles. It dont matter.

Sorry for the long post, but Im killing time at the moment and this subject always amuses me.

Andy

[wrenchman]

I have been a heavy truck mechanic for 15 years and that has changed a lot to i can remember to days before hooking up a computer to them the new freightliner have 4 ecms.
Cars and trucks are differeant all togethere trucks are still sae and cars are metric and most the things are easyer to work on and get to except the wireing.

[Tall Shadow]

Having grown up here in the "Motor City" cars, hot rodding, muscle cars, and wrenching were always around while I was growing up. I have always been good troubleshooting and understanding how/why things work, so during/after school I became an auto mechanic. I worked for years on them, until they started putting so much crap on them(I still do what ever I can on my personal cars).

I work for one of the Big Suppliers for the auto industry here in the Detroit area, and It's almost silly how hard it is to work on your cars these days!


PS: Fuel pumps Are put in the tank to cool the pump! (Scary!)

PS#2: Trucks are not that much better to work on!!!

Well....Maby just a little!

Tall Shadow

[myEspringr]

Here's my philosophy " If it has t*ts or tires it's gonna cost you a great deal of money"

[fabsroman]

Skeeter,

I am a Ford man, and I think one thing that has you skewed about your opinion is that you are talking about a lot of older Fords (e.g., Broncos, Lincoln Mark whatevers). I had a 1980 Ford Fairmont that went 235,000 miles and I could pretty much change things on that car with my eyes closed and it was a lot easier than working on cars today. I also own a 1989 Mustang and 1998 Taurus. Only thing I replaced on the Stang because it went bad were tires, prematurely from burnouts, and a rusted thermostat because I hadn't driven the car in a while. On the Taurus, I have 132,000 miles and the only thing I have had to replace is the speed sensor and that was less than a $20 part and it took all of 20 minutes to replace.

I ended up replacing the fuel pump on the Fairmont which was a mechanical one that bolted to the engine and worked off of the camshaft. That was simple. I also had to replace the fuel tank in that car and that wasn't too difficult. I haven't messed with the Stangs electronic fuel pump, but I cannot imagine that it is too tough.

The trouble I usually have is in diagnosing emission system problems (e.g., air sensor, O2 sensors, etc.). That stuff gives me a fit and I think that is where the backyard mechanic has most of the trouble.

Getting back to my point, you cannot compare Fords from 1980 to Fords from 2005. To survive in the industry against the Japanese manufacturers, the American car makers had to up their quality and I think they did. With that said, I have heard plenty of bad things about Chrysler cars and worked on a couple of them which was a pain in the rear. Haven't heard much bad about Dodge trucks though.

Last but not least, does it really matter where a fuel pump is located if it overheats? Wouldn't the gas caught on fire in the fuel line cause the gas tank to explode regardless?

[Allen]

Having worked on one brand of high line Euro import for 21 years now I have seen things change in ways I would have never thought of. I do feel your pain. The new cars are hard for the dealerships to work on and next to impossible for the back yard shade tree guys. The cars I work on every day now have networks that the computers work on. Depending on the year of our cars there are between 12 and 25+ control units and 4+ networks running them. I fix as many problems with a software upgrade and I do by replacing a part. If something happens to the network you may spend hours or days finding the problem. I have no proof but I think the factories (ALL of them) are doing this to slow down or stop the independent shops from getting to big.

As bad as some days/weeks are I should also say that I work for a good dealership now and this way of life has earned me GOOD money over the years. Few in my family or my wife’s family have my level of income. Not bad for high school and trade school.

Allen

[skeeter@ccia.com]

fabs,.....yea we were talking a few years ago on some of these fords but it spans over many years and when I owned them, they weren't that old...for example on the broncos..in 90, I got an 87..one year of babying because I loved it still had another motor installed...I said that would be my last one after that motor shot the heads...so I got a blazer..ran like a champ till the new pa emissions laws (this is a whole new ballgame I would like to start a post on soon).said even though got great fuel mi...no smoke, kept tuned up..still wouldn't pass so forced to get new ride...broke down and got another bronco..93 in 96. for 3 years with the chevy only had to wax my vihicle + the usual oil etc...and owned the bronco only 2 days and they came back with the hook to take it back...darn if I didn't remember real quick why I said never another ford in my yard........that is when I tried the ram because my neighbor only washed and waxed his all that time..oh.then neighbor kid asked me one day why I wait till it rains to work on my vehicles...I told him I don't...it only rains when I have to work on them...hunt partner bought bran new in 98 a f-150 and I kidded him about keeping tape and coathanger in back...he laughed at me but it was me along the interstate hanging his exhaust back up ..new too...and I have had the tranny redone on my ram...still under the dealers cost..whew, and only have another year of that...so you are right...not make diff what ya have....or how good ya treat it either...will have some kind a problems.....I just refuse to have to open the hood on a ford....lol

[fabsroman]

I hear that.

Since I have worked on Fords, Lincolns, and Mercuries since I was able to drive, it is easier for me.

One other thing to take into consideration is that you were buying used Broncos. While you might have babied them, the previous owner might not have. For instance, take my brother's 1995 F-150. He didn't change the oil in it for the first 25,000 miles. It developed a terrible valve tap and I had to replace the oil pump and screen three years ago, but the truck is now 10 years old and it has around 90,000 miles on it. Another thing is the Ford rear end. Had to change the differential in the F-150 and it wasn't too hard to do. However, I have heard that Chevy's are a pain in the rear in this area.

At the end of the day, I buy new cars, baby the heck out of them, and hope they last quite a while. With the Taurus having 132,000 miles on it, I am getting mentally prepared to start having to do repair work on it. Oh yeah, I left off all the wear and tear stuff and maintenance on the Taurus (e.g., brake pad changes, spark plugs) and I forgot to mention that last winter the coolant reservoir cracked when it was really cold out. That was a $35 part that took about 30 minutes to change. All in all, I am pretty happy with the Taurus since it is over 7 years old and it has 132,000 miles on it.

I hope the Dodge truck treats you as well.

[myEspringr]

I've owned them all. probs w/all. i've always preferred fords, prob. because all my dad had were fords. i've got an 01 explorer and it is the only vehicle i have ever owned that i can't really work on. i always bought older ones cause i couldn't afford payments. but after awhile i got tired of always workin' on em' so i said heck w/ it and got somethin' w/ a warrenty, 26,000 to go them i'm gonna be screwed on anything i gotta have fixed.

[wrenchman]

well things have been going better the last couple days with the car i fixed the ac today i was thinking i would need a ac clutch but i got lucky.
Beleave me tall heavy trucks are easyer to work on as long as you have the right tools it might be becouse i do it for a liveing
but it seams like most everthing is easyer to get to.
I did automotive machine work for a liveing for a few years i got out of it i didnt care for the work.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

wrenchman..like you I would rather work on the big rigs ...maybe because of the space involved....a little humor here on a tranny rebuild..I gave my steelworker cousin a little side cash to help me in the garage one day..so we took the tranny out of an Intersmashable...replaced the clutch, rebuilt the tranny, put rod and mains in it...etc...at the point of the rod and mains, while trying to turn the motor over a little, with the tranny in neutral, something was wrong..I figured .now I know how to do trannys but must have done something wrong...so back inside to remove it again...after getting to the point of removing the shifter plate on top,,,,,,,I seen a bolt laying between 2 gears in there.....cousin said.....OH..is that where that thing went......lol...lmao....he is just lucky I looked inside before removing the whole thing again....sure sorry they closed his steel plant...lol....yea he still takes flack from this when I mess with his ford explorer....when done...I always say....I'm missng a bolt somewhere....so he just gets on the chicken he came over on...( I ask him if those are his legs or is he riding a chicken) when he wears shorts......and mumbles on the way out...lol...he is a truck driver too....lol..lots of fun.....and ya gotta love the mechanic that whistles and sings to the radio while a wrench in his hand.....I don't know if they are 1/2 nuts or just plain....nuts

[Jabba]

Fuel pumps in the tank are for quiet. The fuel injection required higher pressures and electric fuel pumps. When mounted externally, they tend to be loud. I have done it too.

Makes them annoyingy loud though. JMO.

Jabba

[Rocky Raab]

I've owned them all and had pretty good luck with all of them. The worst was a Datsun (pre-Nissan) mini-truck that I bought used and abused. But I half expected the problems considering the previous owner.

Bought a Dodge import mini after that and it lasted four years until I sold it to move to Utah. Replaced it with another one when I got here. It lasted six years and I sold it when it blew a head gasket. Moved up to a full size pickup with a manual tranny F-150, 302 V-8.

That one lasted almost 12 years and 200,000 miles, but went through two trannies and three clutches in the process. One of the trannies was the dealership's fault, they made a small leak into a big one, dropped a gasket into the tranny and never got it out, but turned it bak to me as "fixed." Thousand miles later (on one freeway trip) it went dry and welded itself into a solid lump of ground steel - at 75 mph. Fun ride, that.

Twenty years in Utah and I'm only on my third vehicle. I call this 2000 Dodge my "Durabledango" GREAT vehicle. I have 82,000 on it now, and will have 90 by mid-August. I may have it another decade.

[fabsroman]

Rocky, the 302 in my brother's F-150 just keeps on going and going, even with him not changing the oil over the first 25,000 miles. However, we have had problems in other areas of the truck, but I guess everything can't always be perfect.

[Lilred]

Trucks aint necc. easier to work on.take it from me..lol
tryin to get the spark plugs out of mine can be a chore fer me in my truck..they put em in the dernest places they could muster.
However..most of the time it is fairly easy. Changin the belt is a snap.I bought my chevy 5 years ago from a woman next to Bristol va who's son had died of cancer 6 months earlier. The truck aint have nary a scratch on it nowheres. Its a 92 silverado 4x4 w/ all the xtras they could think of, an it had 100,000 on it. 5yrs later..it's got 263,000 on that 350. Had to rebuild the tranny, and that's the extent of major work done. No motor work but an alternator, feul pump (my hubby cussed fer 5 days over that) and a king pin..a few universal joints too. but that's cause of of where i take it and how fast i take it there lol :p
I paid 3,500 cash on the barrelhead fer it..and I can say it was the best investment vehicle-wise i have ever made. But, those are few and fer between. Somtimes you just wind up w/ a workhorse no matter which brand you buy.
The motor is goin in my Dodge 3/4 ton this weekend..slap the intake and heads on it and it'll be ready to go. I'm excited. Now I just gotta git it painted and the interior done. Which reminds me..I need opinions and some help from yall...I need to make a new thread..lol