California Police

[fabsroman]

Can you believe this story. Hard tax dollars being used for stupidity. Not only were police resources used, but court resources too. No wonder the court system is locked up and the police do not have enough funding.

Personally, I think the girl's and boy's parents should have come up with punishments for both kids and it should have been done. Also, I would love to know all the details of the fight (e.g., why it started, had they know each other). The reporting on this one sucks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050803/ap_on_re_us/girl_charged

[TreeDoc]

I'm with ya about the Court's and Police time wasted...up to a point. That seemed to be a potentially serious and lethal act for an 11 year old to carry out against an 8 year old. Kids do dumb things but that rock weighed 2 pounds!!.

In 6th grade I was involved in the usual boys chase the girls, girls chase the boys on the schoolyard playground. We were all chuckin' stuff at one another and I picked up this flat rock about the size of a quarter and hucked it in the general direction of the lineup of girls that was persuing us boys. The thing flew threw the air zig-zagging back and forth out of control and drilled the girl I had a crush on for most of my elementary school years right in the front tooth and chipped it! I could hear it from probably 30-40 yards! Oh man was I dead meat.....until the code of the school yard kicked in. She didn't tell on me and I didn't say anything. It all went away. But a 2 pound rock? :eek: Ya notice the common thread here? How kids are just getting more and more violent and at a younger age? It's scary!

[fabsroman]

Exactly how big is a 2 lb rock? Plus, how hard can a 11 year old throw a 2 lb. rock? Somehow, I need to see all the evidence in this one (e.g., rock, photos of the gashes) to form an opinion on whether or not the public resources used were warranted.

Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.

[TreeDoc]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.

I'm with ya there...that's ridiculous!

[DaMadman]

The part that I think is totally sad is the comment the father made......
His daughter was not a criminal and acted in self defense.

WHAT BS..... I agree the daughter is not a criminal... she needed her backside tore up with a paddle, but self defense from a water balloon is a 2 pound rock? Nah I don't think so. The father should have whipped her butt and expalined that what she did was WRONG (not self defense) and made her appologise for doing something so stupid and that should have been the end of it.

[fabsroman]

Agreed, but something tells me that the self defense thing was initially out of the attorney's mouth.

I got to witness an attorney arguing the self defense issue on behalf of his client in Court last week. The guy had punched his wife so hard that her lip was split, bleeding, and the size of a plum. Boy was I happy when the judge found him guilty for using excessive force. I ran into the attorney and his client in the elevator and he acted like the judge was completely out of his mind and asked me if he was wrong for arguing for self defense. I just shrugged my shoulders. Oh yeah, his client was at least 6' tall and well over 200 lbs. and his wife was a little dainty thing. Seeing this crap makes a person sick. I hate criminal law.

[denton]

Well, there you go... clear evidence that we need to microengrave identification numbers on rocks, so we can trace them in the event of a crime.

[Valigator]

What happened to Family court? Mediators (spelling) and common sense.....

[LoneWolf]

I think we should immedaitely start a "Rock Ban Lobby". Obiviously, this little, law abiding girl would never hurt a fly. It was the "evil" rock that caused this.
People don't kill, rocks do!:rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Exactly how big is a 2 lb rock? Plus, how hard can a 11 year old throw a 2 lb. rock? Somehow, I need to see all the evidence in this one (e.g., rock, photos of the gashes) to form an opinion on whether or not the public resources used were warranted.

Let's see, three police officers responded, with I would assume three different patrol cars, and a helicopter responded too. Not only that, but the State's Attorney had to get involved. Somehow, I think most, if not all, of those resources could have been used in a better manner.

Send a single officer and he can ask for backup if it is actually needed.
http://gigbitchgraphics.homestead.com/files/emoticons/confused.gif

[fabsroman]

TBO,

Are you trying to make fun of my wiggle room. Okay, based upon the facts that I know as of right now (i.e., those above), and if there are no other extenuating circumstances, it is my opinion that too many resources were used on this matter. There you go, you pinned me down a little more, but I still left myself some wiggle room.

[TheeBadOne]

Three cars responding to an assault at a school is not something "terrible". Depending on the size of the dept, it's probably quite commendable.

How does the call come out?

Assault with a at a SCHOOL full of CHILDREN with one INJURED. Hmmm, guess you think too many Cops went to Columbine, Pearl Miss, Red Lake, etc, eh?
3 Officers on a scene that may have 80 or more people. Sounds like about right (remember, usually there's a lack of info when these things happen in real time in the real world, better to send what turns out to be too many (in some peoples opinon) than too little.

The helicopter? Well let me ask you the following:

Do you think the chopper was tied down on it's heliport and the pilot was busy with other duties, and then the call came out and he ran to the bird, and lifted off heading directly for the call.

Or do you think the chopper was already in the air (perhaps quite close) and in the interest of public safety took a fly over to see if they could be of any assistance since they were close anyway?

IMHO, just another piece of sensationalist journalism.

TBO

(and I wasn't take a 'shot' at you fabs, just clarifying. I hope/think you know that)

[fabsroman]

TBO,

Last I checked, it is the 911 operators job to try and figure out what is going on when somebody calls something in.

Do I think too many LEO's were sent to Colombine, nope. But that 911 call or calls probably had something said in them about shots fired, guns being used, or people being killed.

Furthermore, how did it ever get to the point where the police needed to be called? How could an adult at the school not calm the situation down and then telephone 911 to say that an assault happened at the school and he/she needed to file a report and to please send over an officer.

As far as the chopper is concerned, you are probably right that it was already in the air, otherwise it would have taken forever for it to get there.

Now, lets keep on developing this. Last I checked, LEO's had charging discretion. Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side.

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

Again, we don't have all the evidence, but if I could get my hands on one thing I would love to hear the 911 tape. You say that the call probably goes something like this..., but you cannot assure me that it did.

Again, grey area that we will have to agree to disagree on because we cannot get the evidence.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
TBO,

Last I checked, it is the 911 operators job to try and figure out what is going on when somebody calls something in. -yup, sure is. Any idea what it's like on that end of the phone? http://gigbitchgraphics.homestead.com/files/emoticons/confused.gif

Do I think too many LEO's were sent to Colombine, nope. But that 911 call or calls probably had something said in them about shots fired, guns being used, or people being killed. -yup, they did, eventually, but none of the 1st calls did.

Furthermore, how did it ever get to the point where the police needed to be called? How could an adult at the school not calm the situation down and then telephone 911 to say that an assault happened at the school and he/she needed to file a report and to please send over an officer. (and/or ambulance) -go talk to the good old sue happy folks and attornies who helped make schools completely hands off. I'd love to see a return to 1940-50 type of teaching environment.

As far as the chopper is concerned, you are probably right that it was already in the air, otherwise it would have taken forever for it to get there.

Now, lets keep on developing this. Last I checked, LEO's had charging discretion. -some do (I suspect most do, some don't) Are you saying that from the vantage point of your armchair that you can see there was no basis for charges. http://gigbitchgraphics.homestead.com/files/emoticons/confused.gif Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. - I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, didn't see the victim and injury, nor did I speak to her. I didn't get to hear her behavior record at school and I didn't get to speak to her parents and hear their response. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side. -"One time at band camp..." So everyone should be treated like your brother? It was the exact same circumstances in your brother's case?

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. -Times change. Bet you didn't have people high on meth when you went to school either. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

Again, we don't have all the evidence, but if I could get my hands on one thing I would love to hear the 911 tape. You say that the call probably goes something like this..., but you cannot assure me that it did.

Again, grey area that we will have to agree to disagree on because we cannot get the evidence. -yup, just that I won't pass judgement with such little informaton. I guess it goes to whether or not you have faith the Officers do the right thing most of the time, or if you always tend to look at any Officer and action with suspicion. In closing:
If it was okay for one of them to go there it sure as heck was okay for three of them to go there.

All the best

[fabsroman]

Do you really think that this little girl needed to be charged with assault. - I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see what was going on, didn't see the victim and injury, nor did I speak to her. I didn't get to hear her behavior record at school and I didn't get to speak to her parents and hear their response. I know my brothers have been allowed to go home after bar fights and nobody was charged whatsoever on either side. -"One time at band camp..." So everyone should be treated like your brother? It was the exact same circumstances in your brother's case?

When I went to high school, fists fights weren't anything unusual. -Times change. Bet you didn't have people high on meth when you went to school either. If the police were to have reacted in this manner, tbey pretty much would have had 3 cruisers, 3 officers, a helicopter, and a mini court at my high school.

At least we can both agree that we don't have all the facts here. However, I am surprised that the police department wouldn't have released anything in their favor to quite the news media (e.g., this girl was a problem in school, she had committed assaults in the past and been given warnings).

I don't believe that LEO's do a spectacular job and I don't believe that they do a terrible job. Each LEO is a different person with a different personality. I like to look at each individual case as just that. I am sure that most of the time they do a great job, everything goes smoothly, and I never hear about it. However, there are those cases where things don't go smoothly and I do hear about it. I think we have already agreed that LEO's are human too.

As far as charging discretion goes, I have been pulled over and let off twice within the last year. Once on the way home from picking up my brothers after a bar fight wherein I forgot to turn on the beams (i.e., I had the parking lights on) after picking them up. I got pulled over by the same LEO that was at the bar and let my brothers go. He approached my truck, asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over, and I explained that I did and that the lights were now on. I also explained where I was coming from, and that is when he looked in the passenger seat and told me to get going.

The other incident happened in Arizona on my way to the Grand Canyon. I was pulled over for doing 68 in a 55 as I just came off the interstate. I was trying to get my cell phone out of my pocket and wasn't paying attention. I saw the officer make the U-turn so I started to slow down and get the renta;'s registration and driver's license ready. He ended up giving me a warning and I made sure I obeyed the speed limit the rest of the week.

I have received 3 speeding tickets in my 18 years of driving, and am fine with two of the ones I received, the first and third. With the second one, the officer was lying on the stand, but the only way for me to prove it was to show that I was actually racing another car and that she had not paced us whatsoever. I was 19 back then, stupid, and pissed that an officer would lie about what happened because she was dead set on me being found guilty.

I experienced the same thing in a couple of other instances with a county police officer charging me with discharging a firearm within 150 ft of a dwelling and with a female game warden charging me with having a loaded gun in the car. The county officer didn't want to hear what actually happened and completely ignored what my father told him. However, he was honest on the stand, which I commend him for, and we were all found not guilty. The female game warden was pissed at me because she thought I knew who shot a mockingbird on opening day of dove season and I kept telling her that I didn't. So, she said she was going to charge all of us with it, and I responded that she would still have to prove who it was. That really pissed her off, so she wrote me up for having a loaded gun in the car and she lied at trial. She said she was 20 ft away from me when I got out of the car and she never heard me "rack" a shell in the gun. Well, if she were 20 ft. away, she would have been able to tell I was shooting an o/u and know that I didn't have to rack anything when I got out of the car. There were several other lies too.

Anyway, I think I already told you about the above stories and have said a bunch of times that there are good and bad in every profession just as sure as there are good and bad people, and there always will be.

At the end of the day, maybe life is a lot worse in schools than when I was going to school, but somehow I doubt it is that bad in an elementary school. If this girl was 11, she was probably in 6th grade. Without hearing the 911 tapes, I am sticking to 3 LEO's, 3 cruisers, a helicopter, and assault charges being a little much.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
At least we can both agree that we don't have all the facts here. However, I am surprised that the police department wouldn't have released anything in their favor to quite the news media (e.g., this girl was a problem in school, she had committed assaults in the past and been given warnings). -no surprise at all. 1) Juvenile information is confidential and can NOT be released, period (by law).
2) Active investigations. Info is NOT released on an active investigation. This would cover it up until charges were filed in court (so no chance of the media getting anything before they run the story).


As far as charging discretion goes, I have been pulled over and let off twice within the last year. Once on the way home from picking up my brothers after a bar fight wherein I forgot to turn on the beams (i.e., I had the parking lights on) after picking them up. I got pulled over by the same LEO that was at the bar and let my brothers go. He approached my truck, asked me if I knew why I was being pulled over, and I explained that I did and that the lights were now on. I also explained where I was coming from, and that is when he looked in the passenger seat and told me to get going.

The other incident happened in Arizona on my way to the Grand Canyon. I was pulled over for doing 68 in a 55 as I just came off the interstate. I was trying to get my cell phone out of my pocket and wasn't paying attention. I saw the officer make the U-turn so I started to slow down and get the renta;'s registration and driver's license ready. He ended up giving me a warning and I made sure I obeyed the speed limit the rest of the week.
Giving a pass on a minor traffic infraction is in an entirely different league than an Assault with Injury.



Anyway, I think I already told you about the above stories and have said a bunch of times that there are good and bad in every profession just as sure as there are good and bad people, and there always will be.

At the end of the day, maybe life is a lot worse in schools than when I was going to school, but somehow I doubt it is that bad in an elementary school. If this girl was 11, she was probably in 6th grade. Without hearing the 911 tapes, I am sticking to 3 LEO's, 3 cruisers, a helicopter, and assault charges being a little much.
Your prerogative. Mine sees nothing out of the ordinary other than a little creative/appeal to emotional reporting.
Ask the parents of the Assault victim if they are displeased with the Police response. I've looked, but can't find a bad word from them anywhere.

TBO

[fabsroman]

TBO,

Let me sum it up this way, if there are three LEO's sitting at a donut shop doing nothing, then fine, send them to the scene. I still believe that society would be better served if two of those LEO's were enforcing moving violations and such.

I guess my feelings about wasted police resources stems from several things.

1) We had a pretty good accident out in front of my place the other day that essentially closed down the street for over an hour. A 4 way stop sign had been put in here right before we moved in a year ago, and I almost got T-boned by a girl that never saw the thing. I almost pulled out in front of her, and then figured out that she wasn't going to stop. She actually saw the stop sign, locked up the brakes, and had them locked as she proceeded through the stop sign.

In the year I have lived here, I have seen one officer at the intersection and he was giving out tickets for seat belt violations only because he was standing in the middle of the intersection hiding behind the stop sign.

The morning of the accident, I saw an officer pull into the development right in front of me and pull behind some bushes. I was dying to see him pull somebody over for running the stop sign, but after waiting less than 5 minutes to catch somebody, he just took off. The accident occurred the next day. I have no idea where he went.

2) Last summer, about this time, my brother was at a Pho soup place (i.e., a Vietnamese noodle house) and a crazy guy threw a Pho bowl across the restaurant at my brother and struck him in the head. The bowl cracked, cut his head, and cut his forearm, both of which required stitches. My brother stumbled out of the restaurant dazed, confused, and frightened for his life as this man was yelling at him about how the white me took everything away from him. All my brother could do was sit on the curb and try to regain his senses while he stopped the bleeding. A man came up to him and asked him what happened. My brother explained it to him, and the man asked my brother if my brother wanted him to take care of the situation? My brother said no thank you. About this time, an ambulance pulled up on the scene and waited across the street for the police to arrive and watched my brother bleed. At this time, the crazy guy came out and tried to leave. His car had new car tags on it, so my brother ripped the front tag off, and gave it to the police when they finally showed up.

What I would hate to find out is that the police responded so slowly to the call because they had sent 3 LEO's to a school yard for a rock assault. If a rock assault deserved 3 LEO's, so did a Pho bowl assault. Granted, the story didn't occur here or I would really be pissed. I guess you have to live in the area to know whether police response is usually that good or not. If the police department could continually afford to send 3 officer to every minor assault incident, there had better be no aggressive driving and no lack of response to any other incident in the area.

In the end, I still believe that the resources could have been used better elsewhere.

[Hawkeye6]

I know this wasn't Texas, but whatever happened to:

"One riot, one Ranger."?

Three cops and air support? An 11 y/o girl who had thrown/used a rock to defend herself?

Absolutely ridiculous, but it was in CA.

[TheeBadOne]

Yup, if you have a natural bias slanted toward suspicion/negativity toward "The Police", it will always color your view.

And Fabs, I agree. Your apples/oranges stories don't really have any relevance at all here.

TBO

[fabsroman]

TBO,

The apples to oranges stories have plenty of relevance here, because they go to show that you have no idea what else could have been happening in the community while these three officers were attending this "assault".

Essentially, every story involve LEO's is an apples to oranges comparison because no two are alike. The facts are always different, and that is why you have to look at them on an invdividual basis.

As far as my bias is concerned, I try to deal with every encounter on an invdividual basis and not stereotype LEO's in general. Every person is their own person.

LEO's do plenty of good every day. Then there are LEO's like the Police Chief of Montgomery County who decided to write a book for profit about the sniper victims in this county and Virginia. That is terrible. He should have donated all the profits to the victims.

Sometimes LEO's and the police department handle things correctly, other times they don't. They deserve to hear it when they handle things incorrectly, just as the florist at my wedding deserves to be sued for supplying terrible roses.

The police department has a job to do, and they have to perform that job correctly and allocate resources efficiently. Like I said, I would want to hear what the other 911 calls were at that time.

[Hawkeye6]

Incidents like this one clearly show why people are suspicious of or negative towards police.

LEOs have generally created their own stereotypes and live up to them often enough that teh stereotypes are perpetuated and spread throughout communities.

[TheeBadOne]

after throwing a 2-pound rock at 8-year-old Elijah Vang, cutting his forehead
Vang's parents seemed to have no problem with the Police responding to help the injured victim of the assault (their son).

[fabsroman]

They would if they had another son get shot at the same time and there was no police response.

Sure, if I was involved in an auto accident, I wouldn't complain about three officers coming to the scene. My complaint is where it takes a while for the police to respond to the scene.

No victim in his/her right mind would complain about too many LEO's responding. However, my point is that the resources could have been used else where to enforce laws or respond to other issues.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
They would if they had another son get shot at the same time and there was no police response.

Sure, if I was involved in an auto accident, I wouldn't complain about three officers coming to the scene. My complaint is where it takes a while for the police to respond to the scene.

No victim in his/her right mind would complain about too many LEO's responding. However, my point is that the resources could have been used else where to enforce laws or respond to other issues.
Law Enforcement is a job where someone will be unhappy with EVERY single decision you make.
(Ticketed party unhappy, thinks other party should have been ticketed. Nobody ticketed, caller unhappy, thinks ticket deserved. Accident scene, citation for violation to one party, they think other party was more at fault. etc)

Also, as far as "Better used other where", do you have a crystal ball? Do you have information that these Officers were aware of another situation and ignored it? If not, there was nothing else, just speculation (and it falls mighty close to "thinly veiled LEO bashing").

If Police "over respond", nothing happens, nobody gets hurt. If they "under respond" there's potential for bad things to happen.

TBO

[fabsroman]

Very well put, and while I still do not concede the point that the time of 2 officers was wasted, I'd like to start on the next point, how do you explain them charging the girl?

After that, I will start with what a waste of the court's time it was.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
Very well put, and while I still do not concede the point that the time of 2 officers was wasted, I'd like to start on the next point, how do you explain them charging the girl?

1) It's not up to me to explain it
a- It's not you who it must be explained to, but to the court

That said, there IS NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION to make a reasoned judgement (one not colored by haste/bias/assumption/etc).
A point to remember, this was an assualt, not some name calling or spit balling.

TBO

[Hawkeye6]

This is simply a case of a lack of perspective. Nothing else.

The school administrators did not show any judgement. Teh Kalifornia Kops did not show any judgment. If the case is actually persecuted, then I can easily say the State's Liars did not exercise any judgment.

Taken to its logical extreme, this situataion would call for the police and the courts to ajudicate every playground altercation. A situation that is so obvioulsy absurd as to defy anyone to support it.

We simply do not need the police involved in situations like this.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by Hawkeye6
This is simply a case of a lack of perspective. Nothing else.

The school administrators did not show any judgement. Teh Kalifornia Kops did not show any judgment. If the case is actually persecuted, then I can easily say the State's Liars did not exercise any judgment.

Taken to its logical extreme, this situataion would call for the police and the courts to ajudicate every playground altercation. A situation that is so obvioulsy absurd as to defy anyone to support it.

We simply do not need the police involved in situations like this.
2 lb rock + blow to the head + injury = not your usual playground activity (and this is even w/o all the details to make an informed decision).

TBO

FRESNO, Calif. - An 11-year-old girl who threw a rock at a boy during a water balloon fight escaped jail time Wednesday on a felony assault with a deadly weapon charge after lawyers worked out a deal in the emotionally charged case.

Maribel Cuevas was ordered to meet with her young victim and talk about the fight under the deal — reached on the same day the girl was to stand trial in juvenile court. She did not have to plead guilty, and the charges will be dismissed if she stays in school and keeps out of trouble.

Maribel spent five days in juvenile hall and a month under house arrest after throwing a 2-pound rock at 8-year-old Elijah Vang, cutting his forehead after he pelted her with a water balloon in April. The gash required Elijah to receive stitches.


Police responded said they arrested Maribel for resisting arrest and scratching an officer's arm. Police described the rock as "jagged" and measuring 5.5 inches by 3.75 inches.

Top brass on the force defended the response, but others took up Maribel's cause, saying it was no way to treat a childish crime. Supporters gathered outside the court, chanting "Free Maribel," and singing "We Shall Overcome."

As she awaited her hearing, the girl dressed in pink sweat pants, a white sweat shirt and pink flip-flops was handed a bouquet of flowers.

Maribel's father, Martin Cuevas, said in Spanish after the proceeding that his daughter was not a criminal and had acted in self-defense.

"I think everything will be fine," Martin Cuevas said in Spanish. "This way she'll be able to stay with my wife and me and go to school normally."

As part of the agreement, the two children, with their parents present, will talk about what happened. The girl's lawyer said his main goal was to prevent her from pleading guilty to a crime.

"They did not require any admission of wrongdoing, and once that obstacle was removed, the case was settled appropriately," said defense lawyer Richard Beshwate Jr.

Elijah's family, which has since moved away, declined to press charges, but were prepared to testify for the prosecution.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Michelle Griggs said her office decided to proceed without a trial because of the girl's age and because the Vang family wanted the matter resolved so they can return to their neighborhood "in a way that is safe so all these children can coexist together."

Kimberly Nystrom-Geist, a court commissioner who presided over the hearing, said the order requiring Maribel and Elijah to talk about what happened "would be the most appropriate resolution to this matter. It allows Maribel to go back to the neighborhood and make amends."

In an interview Wednesday, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer stood by the actions of his officers.

"It has always been our intention to ensure that the right thing is done. The right thing is not always the popular thing," he said, adding the department has nearly completed its internal review.

"If we truly love our children we need to hold them accountable," he said.

Looks like it was handled appropriately all the way through.

[Hawkeye6]

Looks like it was handled appropriately all the way through.

Sure, if you're a JBT. There is simply NO excuse for three cops and a helicopter in this case. If one cop can't handle it, he should turn in his badge, gun and nightstick. I hear Baskin Robbins has openings.

[TheeBadOne]

Hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it?

[Hawkeye6]

Hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it?

And keeping a situation in perspective gives you 20/15. You obviously are operating in a 20/200 world where you see what you want to see. Your attitude makes it clear that perhaps the Brits have it right and not all cops should have guns. If you cannot see or will not admit that it is patently ridiculous to send three cops and a helicopter to settle a clearly non-dangerous playground altercation among 11 y/o's that one old maid schoolteacher would have handled when I was a child, then you lack the perspective and judgment to wear a badge. Get it through your head, TBO. Kops are not always right. And the more they try to separate themselves from the society that they patrol by visual and attitudinal intimidation attempts the worse they will make the situationfor themselves.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by Hawkeye6
Hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it?

And keeping a situation in perspective gives you 20/15. You obviously are operating in a 20/200 world where you see what you want to see. Your attitude makes it clear that perhaps the Brits have it right and not all cops should have guns. If you cannot see or will not admit that it is patently ridiculous to send three cops and a helicopter (and you know a Police helicopter was dispatched to the call how?) to settle a clearly non-dangerous playground altercation ("throwing a 2-pound rock at 8-year-old Elijah Vang, cutting his forehead after he pelted her with a water balloon in April. The gash required Elijah to receive stitches." Also, can you please tell me how the call came out, you know, when it was actually occurring in real time?) )
among 11 y/o's that one old maid schoolteacher would have handled when I was a child (so you remember someone getting brained with a two pound rock?) , then you lack the perspective and judgment to wear a badge. Get it through your head, TBO. Kops (don't hold back, ad hominem and all, tell us how you really feel about "Cops") are not always right. And the more they try to separate themselves from the society that they patrol by visual and attitudinal intimidation attempts the worse they will make the situationfor themselves. (good old "US & Them" rears it's head, by your hand)

[fabsroman]

TBO,

You have to admit that a lot of LEO's and entire police departments for that matter distance themselves from the public at large.

Then again, I guess that kind of happens in most places. People generally become friends with the people they work with. It is kind of tough in this situation.

As far as getting hit with a 2 lb. rock, probably worse happened to me in grade school. Hell, my brother once used an aeresol can in high school as a flame thrower and the police didn't get called. Then again, he didn't set anybody on fire either.

Quite honestly, I don't think 911 should have been called whatsoever in this matter. Even wasting one officer's time was too much. I put the first blame on the school system, next on the 911 operator, and last on the LEO's for actually charging this girl.

Oh well, that is just my opinion. My bigger worry with Law Enforcement is 5 miles down the street from me where they confiscated this guys 41 gun collection and haven't given it back yet. I might have to look at that file once everything is said and done.

As an aside, what really kills me is that more officers were killed in auto accidents over the last 10 years than with firearms, but nobody is enforcing vehicle laws very strictly.

[TheeBadOne]

Originally posted by fabsroman
TBO,

You have to admit that a lot of LEO's and entire police departments for that matter distance themselves from the public at large.

This is another: "Yeah, but what about him!" Posts.
Really, look at it. I point out a few things, and some are acknowledged, followed with a "Yeah, but.." post that points a generalizing finger at "The Police".
I hate to be the one to break it, but "The Police" are made up of your friends, neighbors, family...... in other words, a slice of America. "The Police" are citizens too, and share many of the same likes, dislikes, concerns, passions, and fears as everyone here.

TBO

[fabsroman]

Agreed. I have several friends that are officers, but I will also say that they seem to have changed once they went through the academy. Some more so than others, and some have changed back to something closer to their previous self after being on the force for years.