Advantages of a smaller caliber

[model 70]

Ok, so I have an itch for a new hunting rifle. Are there any advantages to using something like a .243, .257 or 7mm08?

we're talking mainly deer here.

[jmarriott]

Less recoil makes alot of people shoot without the flinch of bigger rounds

Less weight in the overall package means the arms don't drag the ground at the end of a days hunt.

Less barrel lenght in tight wooded areas are easy to swing to the left or right without hitting the trees.

When i get to hunt deer in rifle country I have two mainstay's I alway seem to take with me. I built a T/C contender carbine in 7-30 waters and I take dad's bolt in 257 roberts. I have shot many deer with the 7-30 waters setup and in the areas i hunt i never felt undergunned. I use the 257 roberts when treeestanding and the TC on walks and heavier cover.

The 7-30 works well in contender pistols also.

Next gun i will by will be a 7-08 most likely in something like a model 7, browning BLR or T/C encore.

[Rocky Raab]

I personally think that a 243 (or 6mm) is an expert's deer rifle: fine for the calm, cool and GOOD shot but not for the inexperienced.

Almost any .25 is almost perfect for deer. Some wouldn't believe that such a small difference in bore diameter would matter much, but the quarter bores are proven reliable deer killers.

Moderate cartridges in 270, 7mm and 30 are also perfect. I'm talking 7-30, 30-30, 300 Savage and the like here - up to about the 30-06. Larger than that is okay, but maybe a bit more than needed.

Some of the old-time rounds are also wonderful: 32-40, 38-55, 45-70 for example.

I think if I were shopping for a new, mild-recoiling but deadly deer rifle in a traditional caliber today, I'd be looking at a 250 Savage, a 257 Roberts or a 7-08/7mm Mauser. If I wanted some new creation, a 25 WSSM or that short 6.8 Rem SPC.

[Classicvette63]

If you'd like a lighter recoiling round that isn't "smaller' in diameter, the .35 Remington is a fine old round. If you reload you can make plinker loads with .357 pistol bullets for cheap.

[gd357]

I'm with Rocky on the .243/6mm. I saw a first-time hunter (I almost hesitate to use the word) in deer camp about 5 years ago shoot 3 or 4 deer with a .243. Out of those, he MIGHT have made one clean kill. The rest were long trails, and required a second shot. By comparison, I started out rifle hunting with a 30-06. Made one bad shot, but the deer dropped within 100 yards. If you've shot a few deer over the years, I'm sure you'd do fine with a .243.

Now, that being said, if you're looking for a smaller deer round, any of the 25s would work fine. Just my $.02

gd

[Dom]

Model 70, in my opinion -- No, there's no advantages. Since you must be an O'connor fan, stick with your .270. That's the closest thing to the perfect deer caliber that I know of.

One that might fix the itch would be a Remington Mod Seven in 7-08 (I believe a 7x57, which would put it in line with one of Europe's greatest calibers) would be a great quick handling rifle -- another one to put on my itch list also.

Or get one or another '06, preferably the 30, tho the 25 would be ok.

It's always nice to get the itch, just harder to decide what to use to scratch it with, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Cossack]

Mostly weight and recoil. For use out to say 250 yards the smaller calibers like 275 Robers, 25/06, 260 and 7/08 are just the ticket for deer. The 243 is on the light side for our large northern deer. It works but there is less margin of error. Especially important in crowded hunting conditions where the deer could travel after being hit.
My Kimber Montana weighs just 6.5 lbs trailside. Loaded to 2900 fps with a Barnes TSX 140 grain it's about as near perfect as my use - stand and still hunting - calls for.

[Cossack]

That Kimber is in 7/08..

[Cal Sibley]

Topics like this one go a long way in explaining why I've become such a fan of the 6.5x55 in recent years. Most commercial rifles in this caliber are very accurate and kick little more than most .243s.
100 and 120gr bullets are available for those smallish deer in the southeast while there are 140 grainers for the larger midwestern deer. In the heavily forested areas of the mid-Atlantic states the 160gr. SPSP (round nose to me) is ideal for brush busting. The caliber handles everything from 85 to 160grs. That's one heck of a range. Just one mans opinion, but I'm sold on it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Rocky Raab]

Thanks, Cal. I forgot that one. It's a winner and does all that you say it does.

[Evan03]

i think the 6.8remmy would be cool, but so far im not sure ammo or rifles have been available. though remington lists it i think its still a wildcat and may always be??? unless things have changed in the last few months that ive been idle in the gunworld.

[denton]

Yet another vote for the 6.5x55. The 25-06 and the 6.5x55 are different critters, but with 100 grain bullets, and modern loads, they are ballistic twins.

The 7-08 or 7x57 are both lovely rounds, but quite close to a 270 in performance. With modern loads, the 7x57 is practically a 270. To me, that says that those calibers would be redundant.

The 260 would be a great crossover varmint/deer round. I think that it is what the 243 was touted to be--authoritatively dispatches deer, but, with lighter bullets, pretty tough on small critters.

Through a bizarre twist of fate, my 308 became a 243, and I spent quite a while researching whether it was an adequate round for pronghorn. A big pronghorn is 125 pounds. My conclusion was that it is, especially with a premium bullet. In all my reading, there were many that swore by the 243 for deer, and many who thought it was not adequate. When you get to the 257 Roberts, all such discussions cease--nobody challenges the 257's adequacy. So, long story short, the 257 would be another excellent choice.

[Evan03]

the way i see it and have seen it and seen others see if for years as that the deer aduqiat discusion stops at the 243.

243 to 3006 are perfect deer getters.

model70
id look into a 2506. fast fun varmit and bigger critter getter. you know how i feel about the 257s

[model 70]

25/06 is nothing but a .270 or 30/06 case necked down to a .25? caliber bullet, right?

when i said "smaller caliber" i was leaning toward a short action round. the purpose of this would be for less recoil and a shorter barreled rifles(like a model 7 or model 70 compact).

[denton]

You are right that the 25-06 is a 270 or 30-06 necked down to 25 caliber.

If you want a short action, then you might really enjoy the 260. It's a 6.5mm bullet on a 308 casing. The 257, the 6.5x55, and the 7x57 require at least an intermediate action.

The recoil is mild, there is no debate about its ability to kill deer, it is a great varmint round, and it is not too similar to what you already have.

[model 70]

how wide is the selection of factory ammo?

[PJgunner]

Well, based on the results on six deer with a .243, that one would be the very last one on my list. The difference betwen the .260 Rem. and 6.5x55 is negligable when you think about it, although the short action might not be the best choice for reloading 160 gr. bullet as they are mighty long. The 6.5x55 would need a medium length action to have a proper magazine box length as would the 7x57, a very big favorite of mine. The 7mm-08 is just a modern 7x57 stuck in a short action with precluded the proper loading of 175 gr. bullets.
As factory loaded, the 7x57 is a mild mannered round, and if you can find a Winchester M70 Featherweight chambered for that rounds, you will have a jewel beyond comparison. Of all the bullets I have tried in mine, only the bulk Winchester 150 gr. Power points don't shoot worth a damn. Every thing else is less than one inch, with several weights from the 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip to the Hornady 175 gr. running .375" groups. The rifle is quite light weight, looks really neat, and is one of the rifles I don't ever plan to part with. If you're lucky, you might find one in either 6.5x55 or 7x57. My ex-son-in-law has one as well in .257 Roberts. I'd talk him out of it if I could.
FWIW, I also have a .243 Model 70 made around 1968-9. back then, all the short rounds were loaded in long actions, take it or leave it. I have a spare M70 Featherweight stock and I have diofficulty in describing how much light the rifle feels in that stock. I have to do some bedding work to make it more accurate, that one will be a winner as well.
As to why the .243 is last on my list? Well, I've seen six deer taken with the cartridge. The very first one dropped like it was poleaxed. Very impressive. Maybe there is something to the round, I'm thinking. The next five deer were a horse of a different color, with the deer running anywhere from 50 to 250 yards before expiring. The good news is we were hunting on a private rance in open meadows sectioned off by low narrow washes lined with willows. After each shot, we could see the deer running and the final drop. Looking for blood for trailing, I could find little or no blood trail at all. None of the bullets exited. If that had been a heavy brushed area, those deer could have been easily lost. My head instructor in the Hunter Ed group I teach with thinks the .243 walks on water and is quite open about it. For 31 years he's used the round with 31 bang-flops. Last year, he shot a deer that took him and his hunting partner almost half a day to find due to little or no blood for a trail. He' still trying to figure out what went wrong.
I have to agree with Rocky, the .243 is an experts rifle.
I have a /257 Roberts, but have only shot it on paper. It's a Ruger #1B and is too dang heavy for this old geezer to pack out in the hills. Very accurate though.
I'm going more towards the 7x57 every day. I don't know if all the shooting I've done with some seriously hard kicking rifles was the cause or just old age, but my right shoulder has some serious arthritis and shooting the big ones just isn't the fun it used to be. I still shoot them once in a while, but it is getting to be less and less.
Paul B.

[sierra22]

I've been told by a 'smith that it's feasible to put together a 6,5 swede on a Winchester SHORT action as the magazine box will accomodate the cartridge.

I also agree with the 6mm/expert statement. I use a 6mm-223 for deer myself (allthough I'll make no expert claim ;) ) and have shot 14 so far this year. My little 6mm is wonderfully effective, but every once in a while (3 so far) the deer runs leaving very little sign and blood. I know that if this had happened in my younger, more inexperienced years, it would have made for a lot of unnecessary fret and worry.

In comparison, the deer would run maybe once or twice a year when using my 6,5x55 and 120gr NBTs.

[8X56MS]

I can't think of any advantages. I like larger calibers for hunting.

[Evan03]

i wish we could shoot 6 deer in a year. ones all we get. cant test calibers and ammo near aswell you can.

[Adirondacks]

The trick with a 243 is to load your
own. Use 100 grain bullets and
pick a hot load. When loaded like this
it is a potent deer round. And I mean
it. Tales of the 243 being more than
the sum of it's part are many.
I've taken 3 deer with a 243 and 2 of
the three dropped within 50 yards and
the third (an angling away shot) dropped
at just over 100.
Also it's a very accurate and fun round
to shoot.

[Lone Star]

We all have different experiences, and few of us shoot enough animals to determine any answer definatively. Three deer is meaningless in the large picture, but that may be all of our expereince.

For example, my experience with the 6mm on five head of game was not good. Even a 65-pound goat gave the bullets trouble and I almost lost it, even with a good shot. The 6mm will kill of course, I read about it all the time, but based only on my own experience I'd never recommend it. I prefer 100-grain bullets launched far faster than the little 6mm can produce.

Two of my three 6mms were not that accurate (2.5 moa) but a third shot well under moa. The most accurate bullet was the Sierra 85 BT but it was the worst game bullet.