got this rifle and this $1 bill

[model 70]

and for some reason i cant seem to slide the dollar between the barrel and stock. now i wouldn't be posting about this but since every accuracy nut hints that if you can't achieve said task then your rifle isn't fit for the firing range. what are your thoughts?

[gumpokc]

what they are talking about, is free floating the barrel.

free floating is not _necessary_ for good accuracy, many firearms ove rthe years have had good accuracy even with stocks tightly fitted to the barrel...but....

the secret is you want to have either....evan, equal pressure along the full length, or you want no pressure at all from the stock on the barrel.

unevan pressure can cause bad accuracy, since the barrel might not vibrate the same for each shot. and the most consistant everything is, the better you accuracy will be, with all other things being equal that is.

accuracy is not just one thing, though somethings do tend to affect it more than others, it all depends on your particular weapon.

[model 70]

there was a hint of sarcasm in my original post. my rifle is a HUNTING RIFLE. More specifically a DEER RIFLE. for that purpose it's plenty accurate. i guess i was just bored today and took notice of my weapon in that respect.

[gumpokc]

chuckle, well, never hurts to answer :)

[model 70]

no no, i appreciate the response.

[Andy L]

If its your model 70, they may all be like that.....

I looked at one the other day in 257Bob and it looked tight. I could see it was touching. But, I checked it anyway. I told some gun gurus that and they said alot or maybe all do that. Made that way. Hell, Ive never owned a Winchester, so I couldnt tell ya, but theres another answer to something you didnt care if you asked anyway.....


Andy

[Jack]

A lot of rifles come from the factory with some wood to barrel contact at the forend tip- deliberately. And, a lot of light barrels perform better that way, too.
Ruger and Remington both have turned out rifles with the forend tip contacting the barrel. Probably others, too.
Your rifle barrel may like some up pressure at the forend tip, or it may prefer to be free floated.
Anyone who says free floating ALWAYS gives better accuracy hasn't tuned enough rifles yet.
More than once I've free floated a barrel and ended up putting pressure at the forend tip back in- the rifle shot better with contact.

[Cal Sibley]

I'm a great believer in glass bedding the action and floating the barrel. I think most rifles shoot better with this done, especially bench and varmint rifles. However, I'd want more than a dollar bill clearance, probably a business card at the minimum or even a little more. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[Andy L]

My Ruger M77, 300 Win Mag that Ive had forever and a day, wasnt floated and touched the end from the factory. Way back when, I was sooo frustrated with it. I could one shot kill a deer with it, no problem. But, could not for the life of me shoot a group with it. After the first shot it would throw them everywhere. At the time I knew nothing about floating. I tried scopes, and all the other things you check. Finally, I was with a guy that did a little of his own smithing. He checked it and took it apart and floated the bbl. It made a ton of difference. It will shoot after all, more than one shot. :cool: That was many moons ago.

Now, when I buy a rifle, I dont even shoot em til they are pillar and bedded, trigger job and action checked. Spoiled I guess.

Thing is, that "old" one shot Ruger killed alot of deer before it got "fixed".

Andy

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Quite a few of you will have seen that I am not enourmed with this free floating barrel thing. I love classic rifles and have a few, none of which have free floated barrels. Now the difference as I see it is costs and quality of materials and workmanship.

Wood as you are all aware can and sometimes does move, however the old guns with proper air Dried walnut stocks seem much better at staying stable than the new stuff using the Kiln dried method. As an old carpenter told me, years ago when you went into a wood yard you were offered the good stuff which was all air dried then the chep stuff which was Kiln dried............... now it's the supposedly good stuff which is kiln dried the other is more like green:rolleyes: and we wonder why it warps. This is why good quality custom stockers and gunsmiths will not used a wood blank until they have had it for at least 5 years just to make sure it's dried correclty and stable.

The blame is aimed right at the :-

Great God Excessive Profit

Yes I have a couple of more modern rifles which have floated barrels, they also have modern kiln dried wood:( Oh and free floating is nothing new, certain target rifles had free floated barrels back in the 1930's, funny thing is that the most popular small bore target rifle of the time the BSA Martini din't have a floted barrel and one the majority of the competitions;)

[Gil Martin]

It depends on what you prefer, works well and gives a comfort level. Generally, I free-float every bolt action sporter rifle and have never seen any adverse effects as a result. When I go to the range and shoot I never have to stop to "let the rifle cool down". I often see folks wrap wet towels around their rifle barrels or place rifles under the benches in the shade. Never had to do that. Just the idle thoughts of an idle fellow. All the best...
Gil

[model 70]

free floating a a barrel makes it so you don't have to let your barrel cool down?

[rem 700]

When you fire your rifle, the barrel creates natural vibrations. Interference with these vibrations lowers accuracy just a touch. As a deer rifle, who gives a crap? As a target rifle, I don't particularly prefer this, or deny its capabilities. I don't see a difference worth the price($$$too much for varmints$$$)...

[Evan03]

free floating i think will let more heat out of the barrel faster. wood insulated and keeps heat in. get rid of the wood thats contacting 67.8" of the barrel and its got more area to let heat out.

this leads me to cooling fins on an air cooled engine. the fins give the cylinders more surface area. to displace heat and cool the engine. also the same concept with barrel fluting

ive got 2 rifles that are fully floated. and 3 that arent. the new 220 #1 that i just got isnt floated and shoots way better than me. my 270win killed more deer than i can count with a bump in the barrel chain creating lots of upwards pressure. ended up floating it acauracy improved alittle and it kept on killing deer. but not any better

my 22/250 ruger vt is also glass bedded and floated and at this point isnt shooting worth nothing, but im thinkin its on its way to being shot out. its an old old rifle.

my 300win also is still sporting the pressure point in the barrel channel. havent shot this rifle enough to decide on floating or now. probly not right now. its shooting good enough to kill deer and elk thats good enough for me.

i alwasy shoot my barrel hotter than most. ive been burned because the barrels are so hot. but thats just me. shoot it like i stole it the principal. if they never get broke in hard they never shoot to there potential. same way with breakn in motocross bike. ride it like your gona race it. dont baby it.

[JimHnSTL]

in regards to fluting a barrel to aid in heat disapation i find it hard to believe that the fluting will aid noticably much. i say that because from what fluting i have seen done it is more of a cosmetic than anything. heck most of the fluting done these days from the factory hardly reduce the weight of the barrel. for the fluting to truely aid in disapating the heat of the barrels the flutes need to be much deeper to provide the surface area required to aid in cooling. now i'm not saying that you're not getting any extra cooling with the flutes but for the most part not apreciateble. now maybe a custom barrel with proper fluteing would be diff. ok flame at me.

[Evan03]

no flames , not even anything of the sort.

you are exackly right. in the real world fluting wont make that much difrence.

but i would be curious to see how much extra surface area a fluted 920 barrel had over a reg tube in the same diamter.

id measuer the surface area of both and i bet the fluted has a quite noticably larger surface to dissapate heat. say you flute 920 barrel in 20cal with deep flutes. then you might have noticably cooler barrel, but it might not be the case in the real world we live in.

also flutes reduce barrel weight. wich is a plus for me. ive only got one fluted barrel and its on my 10/22. got it for mostly looks but its also noticably lighter than unfluted barrels.

[rem 700]

Fluting isn't really for changing the whole weight of the gun. It's for evening out your balance with the muzzle, and butt of the gun, and it makes a good change in barrel heat. Think of it as this: a heavy bull barrel might be difficult to balance without a steady rest. A lighter muzzle keeps you from slumping down slowly. A bad rest with bull barrels might make a harder shot than a fluted barrel that's easy to keep in place, making them ideal for field use.

[Gil Martin]

My point is merely that with a free-floated barrel I am able to shoot a slow-fire 5-shot group with my rifle, walk down range and paste the target and return to the bench and resume firing. My gun club has 4,000 members and we have lots of shooters. I spend just about every weekend going to the range. I see chaps shoot two or three rounds from a centerfire rifle and then go to great lengths to let the barrel cool down (put it in the shade, apply wet towels or whatever). If that is what they other shooters want to do, so be it. I do not participate in those types of activities. Yes, the barrel gets warm on my rifle, but groups do not suffer and I can shoot unencumbered. All the best...
Gil

[Adam Helmer]

model 70,

I have many rifles that shoot just fine with barrels stocked tight in the forends; they kill deer and ring my gongs here on the farm and many are "as-issued" military rifles.

My accurate scoped sporter bolt guns are all glass bedded and have free floating barrels and the gap between barrel and forend is about 4 or 5 dollars all slid down the barrel channel at once. Since wood forends can warp in humid conditions, small one dollar bill gaps are soon overridden by humidity and that floating barrel is now bedded-you gotta have a gap.

I have shot a rifle or two that liked to be bedded tight, but most like to be free floated and they will group all day long. Fold that dollar bill over three or four times if you want to float a barrel right.

Adam