Another gas price thread. Biodeisel alternative.

[Jabba]

Just for discussion what do ya'll think about this?

http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html

Jabba

[fabsroman]

Is Hemp is illegal in the US?

If everything in that article is true and Hemp isn't illegal, then what is the hold up? Maybe the cost of biodiesel per gallon? They never mention that. What does it cost to grow this stuff and refine it to fuel? That is a good question.

Another issue is what happens to the pot leaves after growing this stuff. Does it get refined to make fuel or does it have to be disposed of in another manner?

If I had additional time on my hands this week, I would do a little more research to see what this is all about (i.e., advantages and disadvantages), but I am struggling to get everything done before hunting season gets here.

[Jabba]

This could open a political debate that the managament here may not appreciate. I think it all should be legalized. And people don't smoke the pot leaves... they only smoke the flowers from the female plants. Well I am sure sombody smokes leaves but they are very desperate. And no I do not smoke pot... but I know more about it than I should for a non-partaker.

Hemp is illegal in the US I think. It IS marajuana after all.

I am not exactly sure how they refine it, but there are ywo ways I guess. The hempseed oil as diesel, and distill the rest into methanol.

I think we need to do something. I am starting to believe in part of the "oil company" conspiracy. I do think they sabotaged alternative fuels years ago, that being bio, methanol and nuclear. I also think the coal companies were involved.

Jabba

[fabsroman]

Jabba,

I don't disagree with you in the least bit. However, I think I read somewhere that the economy would take a real beating if an alternative fuel came out or a very fuel efficient vehicle.

I believe that there is the technology out there to do away with most of our reliance on oil, but the oil companies are blocking it somehow.

[gspsonny03]

Jabba

I don't know how much you know about coal companies, but I have worked for one for 28 years now and we have been sold four times in the last 15 years. The reason for that is because it is really difficult to keep a business in the black when your expenditures are more than your profit. I know of no other energy source that costs so little to buy. If you wanted to heat your house with coal, you could buy a ton of it for anywhere between $5 and $8.00 a ton. Now I'm no mathamatician, but by the time you add up the cost of personnel, benefits such as health care and retirement, taxes which coal companies pay a hugh part to in this state and all the other misc. costs involved with operating a huge business, and then you throw in the cost of fuel, you might be lucky to make 15 cents profit on every ton. Then you sit back and pray that you don't bury a 27 million dollar shovel with a collapsing high wall or catch a 10 million dollar rubber tire dozer on fire and burn it to the ground. No I really don't think the coal companies are helping the oil companies keep out alternative energy. I think they have enough on their plates already just trying to stay a float and to make a buck. JMO

[Steverino]

I know that the midwest corn-belt in the US (like here in Illinois) were geared up hot and heavy in the 80's to grow federally subsidized crops for use in the making of alternative fuels such as Gasahol during the recession then poof! Gone.

My buddy, whose farm I bowhunt out in the Galena Terrotories, tells me that Gasahol is being shipped out from government co-ops to developing countries like Argentina for use in their agriculture machinery!:rolleyes:

Makes one wonder as to why it isn't being further developed here in the US. Like cleaner burning coal alternatives, The Establishment (read Big Business) stands to lose too much.

Yes, yes, I know. New alternative fuel sources would themselves evolve into 'The Establishment' but it would serve to sever the cord of dependability in foreign commodities such as oil and would substantially lower home heating prices over time.

Heard just the other day coming home from work that natural gas prices will be through the roof this coming Winter season-hope it's not a bad one this year!;)

[Jabba]

Originally posted by gspsonny03
Jabba

No I really don't think the coal companies are helping the oil companies keep out alternative energy. I think they have enough on their plates already just trying to stay a float and to make a buck. JMO

I agree. They probably do not any more. But I am convinced that they were involved 25 years ago when the big anti-nuclear lobby was in full swing.

My problem with coal is the pollution. People talk about what do we do with the nuke waste... what do we do with the coal waste? We pump it into the sky at a rat of 65 BILLION TONS of co2 a year, just in N. America alone. Plus the Millions of tons of particulate pollution.

There HAS to be a better solution.

Jabba

[gspsonny03]

There is better solutions. It's all a matter of how much do you want to spend. As in all things in this life, if you have money to spend you can always buy the best. The power plants have been forced to put scrubbers in so that they cause less pollution. This has forced the smaller power plants out of business and has put a strain on the bigger ones to keep up with the demand. That's why California has such a problem with their energy situation. They don't want power plants in their state because of the pollution, so it all has to come in from out of state, so they pay higher prices. They refuse to let nuclear plants in for the same reason. Scrubbers cost a lot of money and as you know these places won't put them in without passing the cost on to the consumer. Your best alternative for power is most likely wind power or hydroelectric. I heard the other day some talk about huge wind stations scheduled to be built somewhere out toward the west coast. Not exactly sure now where they was talking. One thing that I've noticed in the last twenty years, you have people come up with better ideas and then you have enviromentalists come along and get the ideas shut down because we might endanger a minnow or an owl. Now I'm all for saving all the environment that we can, but what cost do you put on that? You talk about the oil and coal companies shutting down alternative fuels, I think you need to look more at the tree huggers and the bunny huggers, they have probably shut down more ideas than both companies combined. JMO

[Jabba]

Dude, I agree with you there. NIMBY. Not In My Back Yard.

We've plowed ahead for several decades now, and we're behind the curve now. Hard choices need to be made, and made quickly.

I do not believe there is enough energy to be had from wind and hydro to bail us out. Not now. Not solar either.

I REALLY believe that nuclear is our current, best option, and we need to get some built. If we can figure out something better in 20 years... great.

But we need power NOW. Our comfy way of life DEPENDS on it.

Jabba

[foto]

Here's a real glimpse into the future and there are alot of big people behind it including some Bush cronies. Previous to the missouri plant they had one in Philadelphia that was cranking out oil and working as advertised. Expect a lot more new alternatives as the high cost of oil finally makes it worthwhile to use and discover alternatives that would have been too expensive before.

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm

For everyone complaining about conspiracy,do any of you remember the simple law of supply and demand from when we used to be freedom loving capitalists?
China used to export oil ten years ago, now they import more oil than we do. Between the two of us we probably take in more than half the worlds oil. The world cannot afford two giants sucking up oil like CHINA and the US. The last time we had an oil crisis there was only one big appetite in the world, us. Now expect the price to go up as we(china and US) both grow bigger appetites for the same limited amount of oil and China becomes capable of actually paying as much as we do for it. I expect to see $100.00 a barrel for oil by the end of the year., but I have always been a bit pessimistic.

[fabsroman]

I read a quarter of that article and if that machine is so efficient (i.e., produces 100 BTU's of energy using only 15 BTU's to get it done), why aren't they being built and used all over the country, starting with city dumps?

[foto]

It is being built. They already had the test plant in philadelphia running and producing oil. They are building a large scale plant in missouri in a cooperative agreement with Butterball turkey(conagra?) who will provide the turkey guts they will use to power the thing. If they get it working good, you WILL see them going everywhere.

here's an update on the the plant.
http://web.mit.edu/10.391J/www/ctw-apr05.pdf

I've been following this one for quite a few years. If you follow any science periodicals you've heard of it for quite some time. Would have invested myself in the large scale plant as they were in the planning stage of it when I first heard of it but couldn't find any way for the average joe to get in on it. this one ain't b.s. I give you my huntchat secret handshake .Take care.

[Andy L]

This is just MHO, but, here goes.....

The Hemp fuel thing looks to me, from the wording and the site it is on and the links and other stories on that site, like something from High Times magazine. Just another backdoor way to try and get pot legalized. "Yeah man, grow the stuff, you can smoke the bud and make gas out of the stem." :rolleyes: Its all plant oil and you can do the same from corn or soybeans or many other plants, Im sure. No reason to legalize drugs to make fuel. Again, thats JMO, and Im sure there are others out there. (BTW, I dont think legalizing marijuana is that bad of an idea. It could be taxed and take some revenue burden off the rest of us, but that is a much better reason than using fuel as an excuse.) It would probably be a good fuel source, if what this article says is true. But how credible is it? Its hard to believe anything that comes from alot of these "pot papers". They have tried every angle for years and will do about anything to get it legal.

The turkey gut thing looks interesting. Dont know if it will make it or not, but sounds good. I think that is where our future should be for fuel. Renewable resources. Corn, soybeans, other crops that Im sure could be grown in less than perfect farmland to make oil and now the turkey gut/used grease thing. If that can be used, then Im sure that the leftovers from the big packing houses for beef and pork could also be used.

I dont know whatever happened to the gasahol thing. I know a fella in Iowa that was good friends with my dad that went big into that. He already owned alot of farmland and built many stills to produce the alcohol. Everything was going good, then it just went belly up. I dont know what stopped that, unless it was the oil cartels or something.

Andy

[Jabba]

Originally posted by Andy L
This is just MHO, but, here goes.....

The Hemp fuel thing looks to me, from the wording and the site it is on and the links and other stories on that site, like something from High Times magazine. Just another backdoor way to try and get pot legalized. "Yeah man, grow the stuff, you can smoke the bud and make gas out of the stem." :rolleyes: Its all plant oil and you can do the same from corn or soybeans or many other plants, Im sure. No reason to legalize drugs to make fuel. Again, thats JMO, and Im sure there are others out there. (BTW, I dont think legalizing marijuana is that bad of an idea. It could be taxed and take some revenue burden off the rest of us, but that is a much better reason than using fuel as an excuse.) It would probably be a good fuel source, if what this article says is true. But how credible is it? Its hard to believe anything that comes from alot of these "pot papers". They have tried every angle for years and will do about anything to get it legal.


Andy

It's all possible. Personally I think gthe marajuana is illegal thing is rediculous, and a waste of resources. I don't smoke it, nor will I if it's legalized, but I'll say again and again, I'd rather be around stoned people than drunk ones, and while I do not condone driving while high... Given the choice, I would rather have stoned people driving than drunk ones.

Maybe corn and soybeans are the way to go in the good farm land places... but from what I understand... marajuana is a weed and will grow almost anywhere. And it makes a lot of biomass every year. Hempseed oil will run as diesel almost unrefined.

I am far from an expert. I still think our best option NOW is nuclear.

Jabba

[Andy L]

Jabba,

I think pot otta be legal too. I just dont like sites like that and NORMAL or High Times, to come up with just any reason to smoke dope legally. Thats just BS to backdoor legislation.

I think it should be legalized, but for the right reason. Money. People are going to smoke it regardless. It less harmful, short term, long term and while buzzed than alcohol, and it would bring in a bunch of money that could relieve taxes off a bunch of other things. Now thats a good reason, IMO.

Yeah, I think your right about growin pot. But, if hemp is a good one for biodiesel, I would be willing to bet there is another weed that grows in alot the same terrain (anywhere) that you cant get a buzz off of.

Make any sense?

Andy

[fabsroman]

I am not a big fan of alcohol or pot, but to those that drink and/or get high, more power to them.

Personally, let them legalize all the drugs out there. Cigarettes have been legal for decades with a warning on them about how bad they are. My brother smokes like a chimney and my Uncle is dying right now of lung cancer.

Fatty foods are still legal and plenty of people are still dying of heart attacks.

Maybe legalizing drugs will prevent a lot of the violent crime, make them more affordable to those that want to destroy their life, and bring in tax revenue to help the rest of us.

Plus, it might clean out the gene pool a little.

[Jabba]

Originally posted by fabsroman
I am not a big fan of alcohol or pot, but to those that drink and/or get high, more power to them.

Personally, let them legalize all the drugs out there. Cigarettes have been legal for decades with a warning on them about how bad they are. My brother smokes like a chimney and my Uncle is dying right now of lung cancer.

Fatty foods are still legal and plenty of people are still dying of heart attacks.

Maybe legalizing drugs will prevent a lot of the violent crime, make them more affordable to those that want to destroy their life, and bring in tax revenue to help the rest of us.

Plus, it might clean out the gene pool a little.

Not to mention free up all the people and money spent on "The war on drugs".

:rolleyes:

Jabba

[jmarriott]

The soybean is already in production in Indiana for Bio-deseil The tag line is "burnin the bean" .

When the new farm Co-op in Pendleton building is operational the will be stocking the bio-desiel.

The big news is turning the waste of corn stocks into desiel, Celulous fiberous bio-desiel and that can be done right now also just not being done. I beat you can make desiel fuel out of lots of stuff like donut grease from krispy creme and such.

Nothern Indiana is full of wild hemp plants from WWI and WWII where it was legal to grow. The locals up there call it weeds and weeds it is, No so called medicinal value so to speak. They don't want hemp messing up the medicinal variaties that are most likely the largest cash crop in most midwestern states. not to menition states that arn't in the corn belt.

[Andy L]

There are tons of wild hemp plants growing along railroad tracks in Missouri. I am told the seeds blew off trains when they used the hemp to make rope many years ago.

I had a buddy that had a brainstorm in college. He and another fella went out and picked two 55gal trashbags full of that crap and took the chance to pick it and bring it back to the frat house and dry it all out and package it. Only to piss off a bunch of his brothers and friends and have to give back all the cash he took in. Not to mention a few ass kickins when folks found out he was sellin ditch weed. :D

Andy

[Jabba]

ANd there is still the fact that people smoke the BUDS not the leaves.

Man... are people really that dumb? Yeah I guess they are. People do all sorts of stupid stuff. Like smoke the buds. :D

None of that is for me. I just don't enjoy being "altered".

Jabba

[Tall Shadow]

I'm all for reducing Our dependence on foreign energy cartels.

I do know, however, that the current list of "alternate" fuels ALL have their troubles/problems.

Ethanol Cost more energy to make than it produces.

The Various Bio Diesels all have the same trouble, and some need to be blended with something to make them usable.Remove all of the subsidies for growing them (or ethanol) and the trouble grows exponentially.

Hemp Is NORMAL/Pot heads Trying for the "Dream" . Hemp might have made good rope, but its nothing that you can't make better these days. Sorry! Hemp makes nothing, that makes economic sense.

Hydrogen Would be the best fuel! But it has more that it's share of troubles too. How do you keep it in a container, when it's smaller (molecularly) than the steel or aluminum container holding it? It "Slips" out in-between the steel molecules of the container or seals. Keeping it in large enough quantities "On Board" your vehicle is a huge problem too. It takes very low temperatures and high pressures to make it liquid.

Electric The power has to come from somewhere! + Battery costs+ Battery replacement+Limited range & Speed.

I know that some/most of these problems can be solved/made better, but it's going to take allot of work & $$$$$ to do so.

Tall Shadow

[armydude65]

Originally posted by gspsonny03
Jabba

I don't know how much you know about coal companies, but I have worked for one for 28 years now and we have been sold four times in the last 15 years. The reason for that is because it is really difficult to keep a business in the black when your expenditures are more than your profit. I know of no other energy source that costs so little to buy. If you wanted to heat your house with coal, you could buy a ton of it for anywhere between $5 and $8.00 a ton. Now I'm no mathamatician, but by the time you add up the cost of personnel, benefits such as health care and retirement, taxes which coal companies pay a hugh part to in this state and all the other misc. costs involved with operating a huge business, and then you throw in the cost of fuel, you might be lucky to make 15 cents profit on every ton. Then you sit back and pray that you don't bury a 27 million dollar shovel with a collapsing high wall or catch a 10 million dollar rubber tire dozer on fire and burn it to the ground. No I really don't think the coal companies are helping the oil companies keep out alternative energy. I think they have enough on their plates already just trying to stay a float and to make a buck. JMO

I have been in the coal mines in Alabama for 3 months, and coal prices are $90.00 per ton right now.