The Charlie Foxtrot down South: Heads should roll

[Skinny Shooter]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to not monday morning quarterback the decisions made before and after Katrina but...

As a volunteer EMT, I know that pre-planning is essential for mass disaster scenarios.

Just to get started, our Homeland Security director, FEMA director, 2 state governors and a certain mayor should lose their jobs effective immediately .
Everyone wants to cry foul when the Feds move in and what about State's rights. Well it appears that went right out the window this time...

Why didn't the governors in the affected states plan for mass evacuations of people from their coast who didn't own vehicles?

Why wasn't the military put on alert when the Cat 5 hurricane was aiming for New Orleans to immediately move supplies via ground and air drops to affected peoples?

Our government has the material and physical resources and there is no excuse for the delay that we have been seeing in the aftermath. We used to have the ability to fight two major wars at once. Makes me wonder if we have lost that ability and that is why there is a delay in moving supplies.

Why weren't area school buses used for car-less people to evacuate New Orleans. Is there a rail system in the area? trains can move alot of folks.

If I hear one more "person in charge" say how hard it is to reach the victims, I'm gonna reach thru the tele and box his ears a bit. We do have something called an airdrop. The air force is pretty good at that stuff in other countries. It should be much easier logistically to get it done here.

Why are people being denied the right to leave the affected area and get to safe ground? The military is turning them back. I don't want to go conspiratorial but this sounds like something I've heard in the past when FEMA gets involved in a national disaster.
If you want to leave, you should be left alone.

Am surprised that people down there haven't revolted yet. they are really being put thru the wringer by the people in charge.

What good will it do having oil released from our national reserve if we don't have the refineries to process it? Am I missing something?

I can go on but this shows how ill-prepared we are for a major incident.

If I'm off-base and or wrong on what I wrote, set me straight because the handling of this disaster has me a bit upset.

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9178501/

[Rocky Raab]

You're spot on, except for the airdrop. It'd be almost impossible to airdrop into an urban area without destroying what you're dropping. Not to mention dropping into a flooded area.

The two LA officials (gov and mayor) are probably the most to blame. First, they failed to ASK for federal aid in time, and then they complain when everything doesn't happen at once. The two are completely inept.

The Feds can't simply swoop in unless and until the local government is (I hate to use the term) in over its head. But the President has been slow to overrule or chastise those two - possibly because both are Democrats.

I think the folks in Mississippi have done a better job. Not perfect, but better.

I really hate to bring up this stereotype, but I did live in Mississippi for five years, and saw it firsthand. Many folks down there (not all and not business folk but certainly the elected officials) are just plain lazy and incompetent. Why they keep electing "Bubba" types and Good Old Boys is beyond me, but they do. The Sheriff Beauford in the movies is not only real, but not much exaggerated.

As we've said in another thread, you make your choices, but you have to live with the results. What we're seeing is the result of electing "feel good but do nothing" liberal officials and the growth of the welfare state.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Rocky Raab

I really hate to bring up this stereotype, but I did live in Mississippi for five years, and saw it firsthand. Many folks down there (not all and not business folk but certainly the elected officials) are just plain lazy and incompetent. Why they keep electing "Bubba" types and Good Old Boys is beyond me, but they do. The Sheriff Beauford in the movies is not only real, but not much exaggerated.



I am born and reared a Southerner and inordinately proud of it. My great-great uncle was killed in the service of the Confederacy. That's why it pains me all the more to admit that in many cases, you are absolutely correct. The politicos who run Chicago and New York are not exactly noted for their honesty and are often hopelessly corrupt, but at least they have some degree of competence and for the most part, the "trains run on time."

If I must endure crooked politicians, I'd rather be governed by those with sufficient sense to pour p*$$ out of a boot.

[Deerman]

Stupid is as stupid does.The people of New Orleans should hang there heads in shame.
Liveing in a town that was hit very hard by Ivan last year we saw this first hand.They tell you a head of time a hurricane is coming and how to prepare,and you see the people who don't.Then after the storm they ride around and soon discover there's no gas.Then it's the governments fault.Oh and it took them four days to get relief,same as in New Orleans.When the Guard showed up here we thanked them,not cursed them.
New Orleans sits in a bowl below the water leve,the N.O. police don't even own a boat?!?!?And its "W'fault?amazing.l

[8X56MS]

More important than heads rolling, is whether or not we learn from this.
No disaster of this magnitude has ever happened in America, so its pretty lame to go into what 'should have been in place' . Its always been difficult to prepare for the unknown.
I am kinda tired of all the blame game crap. To me, the bottom line is that folks just are NOT prepared to fend for themselves, even for a day.

[ds]

but I cannot help it, so this is my last one. Let's not forget who downgraded the director of FEMA from a cabinet position to a position under the Homeland Security. Also, WHO did our illustrious leader select to lead FEMA? What are his qualifications? If this does not piss you off regarding this administration, nothing ever will.


Knight Ridder Exposes Horsey Background of FEMA Chief

By E&P Staff

Published: September 04, 2005 10:00 AM ET

NEW YORK So who is Michael Brown, now catching all kinds of criticism for his handling of the catastrophe in New Orleans? It seems his primary career experience before nabbing a Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) post was running a Arabian horse association. An article by Matt Stearns and Seth Borenstein for Knght Ridder Newspapers observes, "there was little in Michael D. Brown's background to prepare him for the fury of Hurricane Katrina."

The reporters quote Kate Hale, former Miami-Dade
emergency management chief: "He's done a hell of a job, because I'm not aware of any Arabian horses being killed in this storm. The world that this man operated in and
the focus of this work does not in any way translate to this. He does not have the experience."

During the 1990s, Brown served as judges and stewards commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association. His job was to ensure that horse-show judges followed the rules and to investigate allegations against those suspected of cheating. "I wouldn't have regarded his position in the horse industry as a platform to where he is now," said Tom Connelly, a former association president. The reporter refer to Brown's stormy years with the horses as a "rocky tenure." Some have claimed that he was fired from his post.

But Brown knew Joe Allbaugh, President Bush's 2000
campaign manager. Allbaugh took over FEMA in 2001, and hired Brown as general counsel.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, I'm glad that was the last one.

Funny though....

The Louisiana and New Orleans governments did nothing for five days except fill their shorts, wring their hands and blame everybody else.

George Bush decides that's long enough to wait, takes charge and - with no fanfare, no media attention, no thanks from anybody - all the stranded folks at the Superdome and convention center get evacuated in two days.

Yeah, that Bush guy is sure incompetent.

If it makes anyone happy, I won't be voting for him in the next election.

[TreeDoc]

These are the kind of people that Nawlean's should be proud of....you have to see this video!!!


http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown?looting_in_walmart

[Allen]

If it makes anyone happy, I won't be voting for him in the next election. :D :D :D


I saw an interview with the mayor tonight on Fox I think. The reporter kept asking if he should bare any of the blame for the mess of his city. He kept sidestepping the questions and said it was everyone else. She finally said "When did YOU call for help?". His answer was "I called for help the day AFTER the storm hit.". This tells me that there was little to no planning for such a storm, but its not their fault.

Fail to plan, plan to fail


Allen

[Deerman]

DS FEMA did a great job here.Oh yes we have another incompetent Bush brother running our state.He was here the next day and had things rolling right a way.But yes there are people who panic the first time there is no electricity,what do they do?!?I brought in my camp stove,showed my wife how to use it and she never skipped a beat,life just went on.Now the cold showers at five am,that was a real wake up call.LOL

[fabsroman]

DS,

If I could smack you through the monitor, I would. You don't mention a single thing about how poorly the Mayor of New Orleans, Nagin, handled this situation. His head should be the first to roll. Nobody is in a better position to know the situation of the inhabitants of a city than the Mayor is. The Mayor should have known that a lot of citizens were too poor to own a car and too old to be mobile. He should have had a disaster plan in place to deal with that situation. Neither the governor of the state nor the President of the United States would have known that information or should know that information.

Yet, you blame this administration and the Arabian Horse Federation man that was put into office. I read the article you posted while I was in New York this weekend, and while I was taken aback about his most recent job, I have to wonder what his entire resume looks like. Let's see the entire resume before we beat this guy to death. If you look at my last job, I worked at a law firm dealing with construction litigation for the most part, so why am I preparing tax returns for my clients now? If you look a little further back on my resume, I am also a CPA and have plenty of background on tax preparation.

For some reason, I don't trust the media on this FEMA issue. However, FEMA did know that if the storm were a category 3 or higher that hit New Orleans, the situation would be almost hopeless. They ran a scenario on a category 2 storm the year before and felt they could deal with it adequately, but not a category 5 for sure. They got a category 5.

What really pisses me off is that this is a disaster that could have been prevented. The city knew for 15 years that the levies could not withstand a severe storm and that they would fall apart if water ever crested them. However, they did nothing about it during that time because it would cost money. Who paid for the New Orleans Saint's football stadium? Did the team build it or was it funded with gov't money? I would love to know the answer to that one. The city was told by the Army Corp of Engineers that armor needed to be added to the levies to ensure they could withstand a big storm, but nothing was done for 15 years.

Now, you want to blame the President for this. This President has dealt with way more than you beloved Clinton has. About the only major thing Clinton dealt with was his own impeachment, but he handled that really well and wiggled out of it. You have the audacity to say this is Bush's fault. How dare you!!!!!!

Why didn't Clinton supply New Orleans with the funding for the levies? He was in office more years than Bush and he should have known about this problem too if Bush should have.

New Orleans was completely ill prepared because the people remaining there must have been morons. How can you evacuate your home and not take food and water with you?

When Isabelle hit here two years ago, almost everybody was without power for days on end. My parents had no power for 10 days, but they kept a generator running and did okay. New Orleans had nothing at the Superdome and the convention center, which were the two designated evacuation sites.

There is no way that Bush could have overseen the evacuation and disaster plans of every city that MIGHT have been hit.

As far as taking 4 days to get involved, I have mixed feelings on that, but I didn't even know it was that bad down there until Thursday.

Last but not least, if I hear another TV reporter say, "Why is it so hard for the federal gov't to get food and supplies to these people when reporters are capable of going wherever they want?" I will throw up. Are the media so stupid that they do not understand that hauling food, water, and other supplies places is a lot tougher than flying in a single reporter and camera man. The media is really pissing me off on this one and the morons that don't question the media are pissing me off even more.

It seems as though Americans are simple minded people that believe whatever they see and hear on TV. I too have come to the realization that a lot of hunting shows are staged and a lot of the dialogue in the film occurs after the hunt. I am so upset with TV lately that I watch very little of it.

[ds]

I would grab you and shake you until your freakin teeth rattled in your head.

You are a LAWYER, an ambulance chaser lawyer, and you support the man who would limit your practice and take away your life line.

Even a hamster knows you don't take a crap where you eat, you can't seem to figure that out. Damned fool.

[fabsroman]

DS,

Don't assume to know what my practice is. I mostly deal with small business owners, but their stories aren't as good as the criminal cases and PI cases I take, and no I do not chase ambulances. I worked for a PI attorney that did that very thing and he never tried a single case. He would talk people into settling cases because the firm didn't try a single thing. I couldn't stand it. After that, I went to a litigation firm that only did litigation and most of that was construction litigation and insurance defense litigation, but we pretty much handled any type of litigation that came in the door if the client was willing to pay.

Now, I do several different types of litigation, with a very small portion being PI. The cases I have in Court right now are 1 criminal matter, 1 violation of probation matter, 1 negligence matter wherein my client wrecked his buddy's motorcycle and is being sued for it. I have other cases that I am trying to resolve short of trial which are 2 PI cases, 2 divorce cases, and several collection cases for my construction clients. I have one construction client that is being audited by the unemployment administration for erroneously classifying his employees as sub-contractors, thereby not paying unemployment insurance on them, and they want to fine him based upon $1.2 million in payroll. I have another construction client that hasn't filed 4 years worth of tax returns. I have a granite counter top fabricator that hasn't filed 2 years tax returns. Maybe you might be smart enough to understand that I do tax returns throughout the year too. I just finished one up for a Homeowner's Association that I do the bookkeeping for. Oh yeah, I set up the accounting system for the granite fabricator, a general construction contractor, and my day spa client. I currently go to each of those businesses every two weeks to make sure that everything is being done correctly until they get the hang of it.

I think that might be everything that I have going on right now, but I could be missing something because I didn't go through all my files.

As far as tort reform is concerned, I have mixed feelings about it. I would prefer a no-fault system where people didn't get paid for pain & suffering. An accident is an accident. So be it. The victim should have his medical bills paid and receive lost wages. Pain & suffering is merely there to pay the attorneys. When one of my employers can make $400,000 in a year by coming in at noon and leaving by 4:00 every day to miss traffic and not trying a single case, there is seriously something wrong with the system. You and I are the ones paying that guy's $400,000, not to mention the salaries of everybody else. That firm's goal was to take in 365 new cases a year. The year before I left, the firm did about $1.8 million in gross fees which equates to a little less than $5,000 in fees per case. That means that most cases would settle for $15,000 or less. A lot of people are motivated to run up medical bills in these cases because the amount of "pain & suffering" is reflected in the medical bills. PI attorneys have doctors in their pockets because they refer them tons of clients. Likewise, insurance companies have doctors in their pockets because they pay these doctors to do IME's (Independent Medical Examinations). Both are experts and testify in Court, but they are biased. This is the tort system we have in Maryland. Having no pain & suffering award would alleviate the motivation for "victims", attorneys, and PI doctors to run up medical bills.

What made me really sick working at the PI firm is that we were representing people that I know were not hurt. They just wanted a paycheck. One client said he was going to buy a bathtub full of pot with the money he was getting from us. His buddy was mad because he wasn't getting the same amount and threatened to come into the place with a "Glock". When I started questioning him about why he liked that gun, versus a Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson or whateever other name I said, he shut up completely about the settlement amount not being adequate and he quit with his threats.

So, as far as Bush taking away my livelihood, I seriously doubt he could do such a thing if he enacted tort reform and/or made the tax laws simpler (i.e., enacted a flat rate tax which would punish the poor and help the rich). I have plenty of clients who have customers that do not pay. I have clients that need leases and contracts drafted. I have clients getting divorces. I have clients getting into criminal trouble. I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

In the end, I hope that tort reform is enacted so that car insurance and medical insurance might possibly be affordable. Making that tax code simpler will be extremely tough, but I am all for that too.

Now, who is the damn fool? You should know better about assuming. As far as trying to shake some sense into me, I think I have already proven that my practice is diversified enough to withstand the removal of any single component of income (i.e., I HAVE A GENERAL PRACTICE). They taught me about diversification while I was in undergrad studying to be an accountant. Oil companies are starting to diversify as have a lot of other companies. People should do it with their investments also. It tends to lessen the hurt when an industry suffers a set back or becomes extinct.

[ds]

been involved in Federal Disaster Relief from Hurrican Andrewon. Six of them to be exact, seen stuff you only dream about in horror movies, and I am not going on this one because I really do not know if I could take it.

So I guess neither one of us knows what the hell they are talking about. I'll shut up about lawyering if you shut up about FEMA. Fair enough?

[Deerman]

DS you just hate Pres.Bush,maybe you'll have Queen Hillary next!!Say is that another airplane I see?!?

[Skinny Shooter]

No more personal attacks please or I lock the thread.

What has come out of this is there's no use expecting government to take care of you (big surprise :rolleyes: ).

Self-reliance for all should take on new meaning after seeing how well "officials in charge" can handle emergency situations.

Keep your powder dry.

[Steverino]

I was at my in-laws over the weekend doing some home improvement projects for them and one evening, like most Americans now are doing, turned on the evening news to follow the hurricane relief efforts.

When a news correspondant interviewed the New Orleans mayor, Nagin, none of us could believe how inept and tactless this man was and were just incredulous that he could ever be in that particular position!:rolleyes:

He's an idiot!

The race card that is being touted by the media is ticking me off as well. Having lived down South myself, I know full well that the majority of the delays were most likely the result of geographic culture as opposed to any orchestrated effort to facilitare racial bias during this disaster.

[Mil Dot]

In watching some of this coverage over the coarse of the last week there sure seems to be a lot of folks making comments on the line of why don't you save me first. I definitley understand their position but the S&R people are few and those needing help are many. I don't believe the feds are to blame here, but the local and state officials ought to be smacked down and served up. I saw a school bus barn with probably a 100 buses parked in it with water up to the roof tops ... why were they there?! Should have been hauling evacuees the day before. What good are evacuation sites without supplies. Why weren't the major roads build up higher than lake level? The race question is just plan ignorance with the scope of this disaster, the city and region is predominantly african-american it's a question of which family of african-americans to save first.

GW declared the region a disaster area before the the storm even made land fall. Mayor of NO and Governor of LA ... here's your sign!

[Deerman]

Mil I saw the buses too.I didn't know weather to laugh or cry.

[DogYeller]

Laugh
http://tinypic.com/ddc2df

[fabsroman]

The mayor probably didn't want to spend the money on gas to evacuate all those people, because at the time it seemed unnecessary. That would cut into what he would be able to use the money for (hint, hint).

This is a completely terrible situation.

What kills me too is that Congress has already scheduled hearings to determine who is to blame. How about scheduling some hearings to determine how to fix this mess, where the money will come from to fix this mess, and how to prevent this type of mess in the future.

DS,

I know almost nothing about FEMA and didn't think I wrote writing too much about it. However, at your request I will try to limit my posts on FEMA because I do not know too much about that agency anyway.

[Hawkeye6]

Hey Fabs, I don't know it for certain, but I understand that the City of New Orleans did have a disaster plan for Cat 3 and above hurricanes. The Mayor just did not bother to implement it.

DS -- I wonder whose the bigger fool. The man who did not implement a disaster plan or the man who declared a disaster area before the storm hit so that the Feds could begin to respond immediiately? Hmmmm.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

If you were an employee somewhere earning a paycheck, and your boss asked you how things were where you were, probably say..all is well..so when his super asks the q to him, he says ..all is well...so now the owner of said company asks how things are..all is well..when this man talks to the mayor of the town..all is well..when the state reps ask how things are in the mayors town..sure the mayor wants them to think all is well...so there is nothing to report to the governor that he can pass on to GW..so GW rides along on his bike and crashes because the brakes failed because the factory worker didn't want anyone to know he didn't do his job right because someone 'found' the tools he left out.. the news media tells everyone GW can't even ride a bike...so GW takes the rap....who can you and why do you have to blame anyone other than yourself for not checking the brakes before you rode...If I lived where they said duck or swim with them, I would put my kids, what ever I needed into my grocery buggy..( they are everywhere anyhow and easy to find)..and not intended to tote big screen tv's...and started walking..In the week I had to walk, probably would have made it at least 100 miles to high ground..just about then, mother nature would have moved the path of the storm 100 miles from my home...oops...maybe I should have just stayed home....we just need to start taking care of ourselves more and stop relying on others to do so...if you follow the lead dog all the time..the view never changes..get the heck off your duff and maybe use your crack pipe to boil some water...daaa..the place flooded so is enough there....boil water and feed to those stuck on the bridge with you..help some...stop the hand out ...how can everyone expect to be first when the line forms in the rear?...some things take time...somone had to gather the food and water ..a day for that..truck it thousands of miles..few days for that..lots of those sitting with a hand out could have been handing out to speed things up...the news media starts lots of things..example..they told about the plastic gas tanks in cars now and is easy to drill hole and drain..daaa..why didn't I think of that?..but thanks for the info......wow..this all might seem offbase but is early in morning here and seemed like what to say...lol..we are in this mess together...together we will survive...

[Slim-Zippy]

We have not seen the worst of this disaster yet. There are reports of bodies stacked in coolers in the superdome.Most of the injuries and deaths were acts of violence of one person or gang on another. People acted like total animals while inside the dome and convention center.There was not enough food, water health and sanitation avbailable for those in the superdome. Murder, rape, robbery and just about everything else one person can do to another that is horrible and tragic. People were evacuated to the seventh level of hell. I would sure think about public evecuations facilities long and hard before I went to stay in one.

It's constitutional law that the federal gov. cannot intercede in the state gov. until requested. When asked our fed gov. did a very good job of it and are still getting NO in good shape.

The mayor and governor were incredibly incompetent in their actions, words, and deeds. I would have a flicker of respect for them if they would actually own up to this unholy mess that killed and ruined so many people. I feel terrible for the few decent police officers on the NO police department that have been branded by what the rest of the police department did and did not do and how they acted during this catastrophy.

When will our people kick our politicians, national media, and Hollywood elite in the arse and tell them it's OK to play partisan politics, BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR COUNTRY. If we don't stand together we shall all surely hang seperately. The USA may not be the lone super power in the next century and national unity and the other attributes that made this country great from the beginning are needed now more than ever.

Aplogize for the rant, but our society is getting worse, not better and it aggravates me to have to watch.

Slim

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219

Blame Amid the Tragedy
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

BY BOB WILLIAMS
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.





A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.





The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.
In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

[Valigator]

My city, not the one I live in, but my city I love...is great..they just set up a website and pretty much told people God aint comin down from the sky folks, so we gotta get a citizens group together...man that was a breath of fresh air...I stepped up to the plate with what I got, so I mailed them and asked what they needed....could be things we havent even thought of....I am so proud of my city, if they raised my taxes a 1000.00 bucks this year I would pay with a smile...dont know many people who would....course they know I am up their butts every day....so they play straight....no kidding I am really proud of where my tax dollars go... in that city...not in the one I am writing from...

[Skinny Shooter]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/09/D8CGUA3G0.html

Embattled Brown Taken Off Katrina Duty
Sep 09 3:39 PM US/Eastern


By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON


Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown, the principal target of harsh criticism of the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, was relieved of his onsite command Friday.

He will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief, recovery and rescue efforts, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced.

Earlier, Brown confirmed the switch. Asked if he was being made a scapegoat for a federal relief effort that has drawn widespread and sharp criticism, Brown told The Associated Press after a long pause: "By the press, yes. By the president, no."

"Michael Brown has done everything he possibly could to coordinate the federal response to this unprecedented challenge," Chertoff told reporters in Baton Rouge, La. Chertoff sidestepped a question on whether the move was the first step toward Brown's leaving FEMA.

But a source close to Brown, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the FEMA director had been considering leaving after the hurricane season ended in November and that Friday's action virtually assures his departure.

Brown has been under fire and facing calls for his resignation because of the administration's slow response to the magnitude of the hurricane. On Thursday, questions were raised about whether he padded his resume to exaggerate his previous emergency management background.

Less than an hour before Brown's removal came to light, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Brown had not resigned and the president had not asked for his resignation.

Democratic lawmakers weren't satisfied with the move; they immediately demanded Brown's ouster from FEMA.

"The events of the last ten days have shown that Mr. Brown has repeatedly exercised poor judgment and has failed in his basic responsibilities," said a letter to Bush from Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid and Sens. Dick Durbin, Debbie Stabenow and Charles E. Schumer. "His continued presence in this critical position endangers the success of the ongoing recovery efforts. ... It is not enough to remove Mr. Brown from the disaster scene."

Republican Sen. Trent Lott, whose Pascagoula, Miss., home was destroyed in the storm, said he, too, had concluded that FEMA "was overwhelmed, undermanned and not capable of doing its job" under Brown's leadership.

"Michael Brown has been acting like a private, instead of a general," Lott said.

Chertoff suggested the shift came as the Gulf Coast efforts were entering "a new phase of the recovery operation." He said Brown would return to Washington to oversee the government's response to other potential disasters.

"I appreciate his work, as does everybody here," Chertoff said.

In a telephone interview with AP, Brown said he was "anxious to get back to D.C. to correct all the inaccuracies and lies that are being said." Asked if the move was a demotion, Brown said: "No. No. I'm still the director of FEMA."

He said Chertoff made the decision to move him out of Louisiana. It was not his own decision, Brown said.

"I'm going to go home and walk my dog and hug my wife, and maybe get a good Mexican meal and a stiff margarita and a full night's sleep. And then I'm going to go right back to FEMA and continue to do all I can to help these victims," Brown said. "This story's not about me. This story's about the worst disaster of the history of our country that stretched every government to its limit and now we have to help these victims."

The White House had insisted publicly for days that Bush retained confidence in his FEMA chief. Last Friday, Bush praised Brown during a tour of Alabama, telling him, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

But there was no question that Brown's star was fading in the administration. In the storm's early days, Brown was the president's primary briefer on its path and the response effort, but by the weekend those duties had been taken over by Chertoff.

Even before Chertoff's announcement, the beleaguered Brown was facing questions Friday about his resume.

Bush administration documents have credited Brown with overseeing emergency services while working for the city of Edmond, Okla., in the mid-1970s. Brown's official biography on the FEMA Web site says he served as "an assistant city manager." But a former mayor of Edmond, Randel Shadid, told AP on Friday that Brown had been an assistant to the city manager _ never assistant city manager.

"I think there's a difference between the two positions," said Shadid. "I would think that is a discrepancy."

Asked later about the White House news release that said Brown oversaw Edmond's emergency services divisions, Shadid said, "I don't think that's a total stretch."

A longtime acquaintance, Carl Reherman, said Brown was very involved in helping set up Edmond's emergency operations center and assisting in the creation of an emergency contingency plan in the 1970s. At the time, Reherman was a city councilman, and he later became mayor.

FEMA deputy strategic director Nicol Andrews said a report in Time magazine, which first detailed the discrepancies, was "very inaccurate."

Similarly, a January 2003 White House announcement of Brown's nomination to head FEMA lists his previous experience as "the Executive Director of the Independent Electrical Contractors," a trade group based in Alexandria, Va. Two officials of the group told Newsday this week that Brown never was the national head of the group but did serve as the executive director of a regional chapter in Colorado.

[ds]

This is my last post on huntchat. I have enjoyed my visits here, learned a little, maybe even gave some decent info once or twice. It is true I do not like Bush for many reasons, and seldome give him credit, even when he deserves it. I do not like him, and I am partisan. However, to watch people vehemently defend him, despite his obvious failures in this matter, is more than I can bear.

As I have said before, I have helped in disaster relief situations before, and seen some pretty horrible things. A colleague who I have worked with has been down in New Orleans a few days now, and has told me of horrible things he has seen. In short, animals are scavaging human remains. My friend states it looks like a Nuclear War Zone. My heart cannot bear this and watch people defend the president in this matter. These were real people. They bled real blood, and they lived real lives. Some of them were bad, but some of them were probably good too, some of them were old, and some of them were simply babies.

My opinions are too different here to stay, and my personal experiences make me too bias to sit her idly and not scream or retch when the masses praise this administration.

Here is the Press Release that was posted on August 27, 2005 -- a full day before the huricane hit. As you can see, the governor (and no, she is not blameless either) did ask to be declared in a state of emergency. Our government did not respond until five days later.

Thank you all, and good luck.


Press Release
Date: 8/27/2005


Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina


BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina. The full text of the letter follows:

August 27, 2005


The President
The White House
Washington, D. C.

Through:
Regional Director
FEMA Region VI
800 North Loop 288
Denton, Texas 76209

Dear Mr. President:

Under the provisions of Section 501 (a) of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5121-5206 (Stafford Act), and implemented by 44 CFR § 206.35, I request that you declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period beginning August 26, 2005, and continuing. The affected areas are all the southeastern parishes including the New Orleans Metropolitan area and the mid state Interstate I-49 corridor and northern parishes along the I-20 corridor that are accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expecting to be flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

Preliminary estimates of the types and amount of emergency assistance needed under the Stafford Act, and emergency assistance from certain Federal agencies under other statutory authorities are tabulated in Enclosure A.

The following information is furnished on the nature and amount of State and local resources that have been or will be used to alleviate the conditions of this emergency:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Providing support for the phased evacuation of the coastal areas.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Supporting the evacuation of the affected population and preparing for Search and Rescue Missions.


Mr. President
Page Two
August 27, 2005


• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Coordinating traffic flow and management of the evacuations routes with local officials and the State of Mississippi.



The following information is furnished on efforts and resources of other Federal agencies, which have been or will be used in responding to this incident:
• FEMA ERT-A Team en-route.

I certify that for this emergency, the State and local governments will assume all applicable non-Federal share of costs required by the Stafford Act.

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

(a) List any reasons State and local government cannot perform or contract for performance, (if applicable).

(b) Specify the type of assistance requested.

In accordance with 44 CFR § 206.208, the State of Louisiana agrees that it will, with respect to Direct Federal assistance:

1. Provide without cost to the United States all lands, easement, and rights-of-ways necessary to accomplish the approved work.

2. Hold and save the United States free from damages due to the requested work, and shall indemnify the Federal Government against any claims arising from such work;

3. Provide reimbursement to FEMA for the non-Federal share of the cost of such work in accordance with the provisions of the FEMA-State Agreement; and

4. Assist the performing Federal agency in all support and local jurisdictional matters.

In addition, I anticipate the need for debris removal, which poses an immediate threat to lives, public health, and safety.

Pursuant to Sections 502 and 407 of the Stafford Act, 42 U.S.C. §§ 5192 & 5173, the State agrees to indemnify and hold harmless the United States of America for any claims arising from the removal of debris or wreckage for this disaster. The State agrees that debris removal from public and private property will not occur until the landowner signs an unconditional authorization for the removal of debris.


I have designated Mr. Art Jones as the State Coordinating Officer for this request. He will work with the Federal Emergency Management Agency in damage assessments and may provide further information or justification on my behalf.

Sincerely,




Kathleen Babineaux Blanco
Governor
Enclosure


ENCLOSURE A TO EMERGENCY REQUEST


Estimated requirements for other Federal agency programs:
• Department of Social Services (DSS): Opening (3) Special Need Shelters (SNS) and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH): Opening (3) Shelters and establishing (3) on Standby. Costs estimated at $500,000 per week for each in operation.
• Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness (OHSEP): Providing generators and support staff for SNS and Public Shelters. Costs estimated to range from $250,000-$500,000 to support (6) Shelter generator operations.
• Louisiana State Police (LSP): Costs to support evacuations - $300,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (WLF): Costs to support evacuations - $200,000 for a non-direct landfall.
• Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD): Costs to support evacuations - $2,000,000 for a non-direct landfall.


Totals: $ 9,000,000

Estimated Requirements for assistance under the Stafford Act:

Coordination: $0
Technical and advisory assistance: $0
Debris removal: $0
Emergency protective measures: $ 9,000,000
Individuals and Households Program (IHP): $0
Distribution of emergency supplies: $0
Other (specify): $0

Totals: $ 9,000,000
Grand Total: $ 9,000,000

[TreeDoc]

...and of that, what did they or did they not get?

I'm of firm belief that GW is blowin' it on many fronts like for not wiping off the face of the earth radical islamist strongholds like Falujah, etc. as well as his pussyfooting on our own border issues but from the sound of it, ds, it sounds to me like you're blaming George Bush for the Huricane but then again, why not? Ted Kennedy just blamed Bush and the entire administration for their policies which apparently are now causing Saturn's Rings to change.

You might want to check the rings around Ur anus, me thinks there are some Clingons abound.

[DogYeller]

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of NO and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.

After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why he emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at is disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.

If you want to balme The President for anything blame him for not placing the Gov. of LA and Mayor of NO. under arrest for gross negligence and placing the whole area under martial law.

[Rocky Raab]

Again, I'd like to put some perspective on certain things.

Leaving politics and blame completely aside for now, let's look at the situation immediately after the hurricane ended.

Not only New Orleans but a hundred miles of other cities along the Gulf coast are destroyed. There is no power, no water, no cell service, no road access to many places and no functioning emergency departments (fire or police).

There is no way to know how many people evacuated, or who, or where they went. There is no way way to know how many did NOT evacuate, or who, or what happened to them.

Given all that, your job (we'll assume YOU are the person in charge) is to:

Rescue the living
Search for hidden survivors
Provide food, water and shelter to evacuees
Restablish communications
Restablish power
Recover the dead
Clear roads
Remove debris
Evacuate the survivors
Call in reinforcements
Coordinate donations
Distribute supplies
Arrange massive transportation for people and supplies
Respond to thousands of media interview requests
Tour the scene personally

That's hardly all, but that's a good short list of "immediate" items.

Now, here's the $64 question: which one do you do first? Because at some point or other, EVERYBODY involved with the hurricane has been castigated and blamed for not doing ALL of those things first.

Start clearing roads in, and the media shows people screaming to be rescued.

Rescue people, and the media shows people bellowing for food at shelters.

Get everybody evacuated and the media moans that bodies are going untended.

Tour the area, and the media complains that it wasn't soon enough. Try to meet with your staff, and the media complains that you aren't doing enough interviews to keep people informed.

Try to do anything, and the media will complain about something else.

Get the picture?

Now imagine you are not only in charge of the disaster, but are also the President. The Chief Justice dies, the Senate holds up confirmation of the previous Court vacancy, there's an oil problem, there's a war going on - and oh by the way, there's another hurricane off the coast.

How would you do?

[TreeDoc]

That's easy, Rocky



I'd go fishing!



BTW, excellent perspective on the situation. ;)

[BILLY D.]

i liked your response doc. like grandma always told me "never take anything in life too seriously."

one other thing, hows ol' jacks hoofy doing? hope he's getting along great.

[TreeDoc]

Thanks, Billy. My method works about 90% of the time!

As for Jack? He's sitting on the couch with me waiting for one of Ma's homemade chocolate chip cookie morsels to come his direction. :rolleyes: I would rate his paw at about 95+% at this point. He acts as though it never happened but the kids that come around from the nieghborhood to play are dissapointed because he isn't allowed to play ball anymore. Jack just doesn't understand this! I've been swimming him and he did make it out on a quick Dove hunt the evening of our opener. He performed his usual flawless retrieves even though he hates dove!

Thanks for asking! ;)

[BILLY D.]

one little comment about the michael brown fiasco.

fair haired boys always get promoted to a higher level of incompttence. seen too much of it in the military.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by TreeDoc
Thanks, Billy. My method works about 90% of the time!

As for Jack? He's sitting on the couch with me waiting for one of Ma's homemade chocolate chip cookie morsels to come his direction. :rolleyes: I would rate his paw at about 95+% at this point. He acts as though it never happened but the kids that come around from the nieghborhood to play are dissapointed because he isn't allowed to play ball anymore. Jack just doesn't understand this! I've been swimming him and he did make it out on a quick Dove hunt the evening of our opener. He performed his usual flawless retrieves even though he hates dove!

Thanks for asking! ;)

HEY, GREAT, GLAD TO HEAR HE IS DOING SO WELL.

I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH DOG WHO HATES THE TASTE OF SOME BIRDS.

MY LAB ABHORED THE TASTE OF SHOVELER DUCKS. HE USED TO GARGLE WITH LISTERENE AFTER HE FINISHED A RETRIEVE.:eek:

[fabsroman]

That one was pretty good too Billy. It got a laugh out of me and I am in a pretty crappy mood tonight for some reason.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by fabsroman
That one was pretty good too Billy. It got a laugh out of me and I am in a pretty crappy mood tonight for some reason.

PMS, SWEETIE?

[fabsroman]

That one was pretty good too.

Nah, it doesn't have to do with PMS. Mostly work related, but it includes my handgun jamming 5 times today at the range and me shooting like crap on top of that.

I probably just woke up in a bad mood because Nitro decided to relieve himself all over the bedroom floor. Nothing gets you up in the morning quicker than the smell of urine. Then again, smelling crap might have had me out of bed even quicker. The rest of the day went downhill from there.

[Mil Dot]

Tree Doc,

Don't fret about Jack not liking to retrieve doves, my Lab, and my buddies two labs hate 'em too! Those damn fine feathers make 'em feel like a cat choking up a hair ball. He probably wants to know what else you have in store for him ... pink toto ... come on Dad give me a break! I'm a Lab not a friggin' Poodle!

[TreeDoc]

Naw, I won't fret! In his early years he was fine with Doves. 2 weeks after moving in with us he was 15 weeks old and he went on his first real bird hunt for Doves. For his first couple years doves were no big deal just simply because of the excitement of the hunt for him. Now after 5 seasons under his belt with Duck/Goose, Pheasant, and Quail being the primary quarry in that order, holding a stinky little dove has become low on his list on "What I like to fetch for you" list though he still does it with great vigor! ;)

Oh BTW, MilDot...had you ever seen his slipper modeling portfolio?

http://www.jesseshunting.com/photopost/data/500/16007JackSlipper2.JPG

[Mil Dot]

The poor dog's going to need a therapist and not for failure to retrieve doves! :D

[skeeter@ccia.com]

treedoc......if he finds out you posted this picture, I think he would tell you to fetch your own birds....lmao

[gspsonny03]

TD, if I was him I'd bite you on the ankle for that one.:D

[Adirondacks]

Right on the money!
And after several years of work to
"Streamline" disaster relief in the wake
of 9/11. What a joke. As usual many of
the positions were filled through
cronyism.

What is unsurprising is that all the work
that has been done (undoubtedly by
commitee) has resulted in a ridiculous
beurocracy. Apparently FEMA now
requires more specificly detailed requests
for aid than it did before being
reorganized. The Governor of LA was
unable to adequately assess the situation
in the wake of the disaster (in fact
unable to even contact the mayor of
New Orleans or
any of the perish officials) FEMA claims
that no specific requests were made.
What classic catch 22 BS.