Forced evacuations

[Tater]

They're getting ready to start forcing evacs in N.O. but not until after they rescue all those wanting to leave. How far do you think they should go in forcing evacs? How do you tell the difference between someone who's too stupid to understand the danger and someone who's just too scared to leave their house? Do you risk injury to the individual you're trying to evac or yourself to get him/her out of a dangerous situation when they really don't want to go? I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it. On one hand, you know you need to get this person out for their own health. But do I really want to beat his a$$ to do it? Maybe this is Mother Nature's way of cleaning out the gene pool.

[Valigator]

This catasophy (spelling) is bigger than any one human being or residence there...yes they should rebuild...but they have to do it at least 8-10-hell 15 feet above what it is....its been done before it will be done again...read the history on Galvaston...

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Valigator
This catasophy (spelling) is bigger than any one human being or residence there...yes they should rebuild...but they have to do it at least 8-10-hell 15 feet above what it is....its been done before it will be done again...read the history on Galvaston...

val, ever hear of the netherlands and belgium? they are seriously below sealevel and have no problems what so ever. maybe we need to take lessons?

maybe if the city of new orleans had put more money into their levee system and less in that marvelous sports palace they would have been better of.

due to inflation, thats my nickels worth.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Tater
They're getting ready to start forcing evacs in N.O. but not until after they rescue all those wanting to leave. How far do you think they should go in forcing evacs? How do you tell the difference between someone who's too stupid to understand the danger and someone who's just too scared to leave their house? Do you risk injury to the individual you're trying to evac or yourself to get him/her out of a dangerous situation when they really don't want to go? I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it. On one hand, you know you need to get this person out for their own health. But do I really want to beat his a$$ to do it? Maybe this is Mother Nature's way of cleaning out the gene pool.

tater

looking at the strategic position here, it is going to be quite some time before they can rebuild even the simplest of the infrastructure. electricity, water, sewage. diseases are going to run rampant.

who is going to pay all the medical expenses and will medical help even be available.

i say drag them out of there kicking and screaming, tough tuna. as far as cleaning out the gene pool i don't believe it would even scratch the surface.

[Valigator]

I agree Billy, start with the levee system and build up.

[Skinny Shooter]

Tater, I have a problem when the government goes into a citizen's home and forcibly removes them.
But, it is clear beyond all doubt that there is a health crisis waiting to explode.
Diplomacy and rational comes first. If that doesn't work and resistance is encountered, four-point them and remove them.

Allen

[Jack]

"Tater, I have a problem when the government goes into a citizen's home and forcibly removes them."
Can't argue with that.....
Yesterday, the police were going into occupied homes in NO and taking people's weapons......

[Skinny Shooter]

Jack, any links to that info?

[Steverino]

Not to flame ya buddy but I don't think that I've ever heard of a hurricane hitting Belgium or the Netherlands in recent history.

I believe that New Orleans represents a unique situation in the warm tropical waters of the Gulf that these European cities do not regularly encounter.

Just my .02.;)

[Jack]

Skinny, saw it on one of the major network news last nite....

[Skinny Shooter]

Originally posted by Jack
Skinny, saw it on one of the major network news last nite....

Copy!

[Jack]

Come to think of it, saw it on Good Morning America, this morning, too, so I presume it was ABC.

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by Steverino
Not to flame ya buddy but I don't think that I've ever heard of a hurricane hitting Belgium or the Netherlands in recent history.

I believe that New Orleans represents a unique situation in the warm tropical waters of the Gulf that these European cities do not regularly encounter.

Just my .02.;)

steve

netherlands is an english word translated from the german word niederlund, which means lowlands. a lot of holland and belgium are built below sea level which is what i was refering to.

sorry about any misunderstanding. i should have explained my thought process better.

[M.T. Pockets]

This is a tough call, as a firefighter I've been involved going door to door after a tornado and two floods. Our marching orders from the top were "go door to door to each house and get the people out of the area" and we did. Some folks snuck back in, some folks who didn't belong there in the first place snuck in, and the news media also snuck in. When your job is to "get everyone out of there !" all these folks look alike and how the heck do we know who belongs and who doesn't.

By refusing to leave, or sneaking back in, I can say that it did cause us to spend more time than we liked stepping over hot wires in the dark, with natural gas & propane leaking and with falling branches wading in rising water getting people out when we'd have been better off somewhere else, not to mention safer. I've been chewed out hard by a Homeowner we were trying to help in a flood and I've come to the conslusion some folks don't think straight in an emergency.

Some folks are mad that the government didn't get there soon enough, and now some are mad when they do come to try to help them. How do you win ?

[fabsroman]

In this situation, everybody should be taken out. These people do not have TV, phones, or other lines of communicaiton. They do not know how bad the devastation is and that they will not be getting fresh water and food in a long time. They cannot fathom that staying behind is the equivalent of a death sentence.

I think most rational people, if told they had to choose between their property or their life, and there was no way to have both, would figure out that they could get more property with their life, but once they lose their life, that is it.

[M.T. Pockets]

It reminds me of another phenomena I've seen a few times. Not to bring up another firefighter story, but more than once I've been at a barn fire where the animals are herded out to safety only to run back into the burning barn where they feel safe. Believe me, they'll run over you to get back in. Must be a deep instinct in some people too.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by fabsroman
In this situation, everybody should be taken out. These people do not have TV, phones, or other lines of communicaiton. They do not know how bad the devastation is and that they will not be getting fresh water and food in a long time. They cannot fathom that staying behind is the equivalent of a death sentence.

I think most rational people, if told they had to choose between their property or their life, and there was no way to have both, would figure out that they could get more property with their life, but once they lose their life, that is it.

Let me make it clear that I strongly agree the city of New Orleans should be evacuated, for humanitarian reasons as well as a host of other practical considerations.

Having said that, I'd be interested in hearing from you precisely what chapter, book and verse empowers "the government", federal, state or local, to take such action. I realize you may not be well-versed in Louisiana statutes, so since this is somewhat hypothetical, relevant sections of the United States Code or applicable Maryland law will suffice.

[Jack]

Skinny, this limk might help.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/09/national/nationalspecial/09storm.html

[fabsroman]

Aim to Maim,

I have never had to deal with this issue before, so it would involve legal research on my part. Hence, giving you Louisianna law would be just as easy and researching Maryland law.

The places I would start would be with condemnation statutues wherein people are required to leave the residence. On the federal side, I would start with what the federal government can do if it declares martial law. The research would probably provide something, problem is that I just don't have hours to spend on this today.

Everybody thinks that lawyers should be able to whip this stuff up without a problem. My clients complain like hell when they see 4 hours billed to them for legal research because they think the answer is at my fingertips.

To be honest with you, I am curious about it too. I just don't have the time this morning. If I find anything later today, I'll be sure to post it.

[fabsroman]

Didn't take as long as I thought it would.

It is amazing what I can find on the internet by doing searches. Of course, I was trained to do this stuff because the legal software search engine works just like these search engines for the internet.

Anyway, here is a CNN article addressing the legal issues that allow mandatory evacautions.

http://premium.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/08/martial.law.qanda/

[DogYeller]

I found this.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/08/update-louisiana-martial-law.php

[8X56MS]

Billy D, you say that the Netherlands have not had problems with flooding, but thats incorrect.
Back in 1953, many thousands died, and as a result, billions were spent over 25 years to improve the protection. They are fairly confident now, that they are protected, but they are aware that nature is not to be trifled with, and thousands could die again.

[Valigator]

Dog, did you happen to read the article about the illegal aliens also on that link?