Why should New Orleans be rebuilt?

[Skinny Shooter]

Help me to understand why you think it should.
Because at this time I think it should be bulldozed over.

The city was spared a direct hit from Katrina.
If we rebuild, what happens when the city is hit directly by a hurricane and it floods again?
How much money is wasted before someone realizes that location is not a good idea?
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/askjack/2003-10-09-hurricane-betsy_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/wnoflood.htm

Thanks,
Allen

[toxic111]

I've been arguing this with many people on different boards, and here is my take.

Why not, Most homes have just flood damage, and that can be repaired, yes it costs, but it can be done. There is just too much history there to destroy the whole city. Buildings that are nearly 300years old, or older. The French Quarter is basically undamaged, just some structural from the winds, but it was not flooded.

Now, I ask everyone that thinks it should be torn down to ask themselves this, what if it was YOUR city, where YOU grew up, where Your family grew up. What would YOU want. I know if it was me, I would want to go home, and that is what the people from that area want.

Think about it, if it was your home, wouldn't you want to go back.

All of this it is below sea level, it is a delta, blah, blah, blah bugs the heck out of me. Most of the Netherlands is below sea level, so is Venice in Italy. Things have to be looked at so it don't happen again. The Netherlands installed large 'brakes' in the sea to help against storm surge, they alos installed a movable dam in one river to do the same, so it is possible. Even Venice has done something to help prevent flooding.

Now these are my opinions, and they are based on me visiting the area a few years ago, as well as I have a very good freind that grew up there, her childhood home is gone, but life will go on.

[Skinny Shooter]

Toxic, good answers. Thanks
Keep the French Quarter then (how'd they get off so easy? ;) )
Many of the homes I'm seeing are flooded up to their soffit. Those buildings are a total loss.
If it was my home flooded with the crap that's in the water, not to mention the future groundwater contamination, I'd run the bulldozer myself. (but then again, my home isn't that great either :D ) I'd never feel comfortable living in a mass bio-hazard zone again. Long term health issues should be considered.
As far as other countries with cities built below sea level, (showing my ignorance here) how many hurricanes (or whatever their storms are called) do they get hit with every year like the gulf does?
And just because they are doing it, doesn't mean we have to do it too. You are talking major dollars being spent because some folks want to keep their homes in a danger zone. I don't go for that at all. You build a home on a rock or firm ground, not sand.
thanks,
Allen

[Steverino]

Toxic,


I will provide the same info that I responded with to Billy on another thread. It's been awhile since a hurricane has hit Belgium or the Netherlands. The tropical waters off the Gulf area represents unique conditions condusive to tropical storms that Europe is unaccustomed to.

Your point of peoples homes and history is salient, however.

I would propose the same types of policies that folks along the banks of the Mississippi in Illinois has: no flood insurance.

If you want to build your home on a flood plane, a delta, or up on an active volcano, have at it...but don't expect the insurance companies (read-other insurers) to have to foot the bill every time the waters rise or a tropical storm lays waste your home.

[toxic111]

Steve I would agree there, no flood insurance, or if you can get it, the premiums reflect the fact that you are high risk.

Skinny, the French Quarter believe it or not is one of the highest areas in the city, there are only a couple others that are, one is a cemetary (this one the people are actually buired below ground, not in a crypt)

As for the buildings up to the soffits in water, once you strip the building to the basic shell, you can wash the wood, and then seal it to prevent the toxins from leeching out. We use a product called Killz to seal wood after a fire repair, and smoke is one of the hardest things to keep in.

I think the biggest problem facing NO is the drinking water issues, the water system may be too damaged to just repair, we don't know that until they start working on it.

Now to get to the Netherlands. The storms they deal with there are not hurricanes, however, they have to deal with the North Sea storms, which can be worse, and more frequent. That is one reason they did do something to prevent the storm surge from flooding the cities. See link (http://encarta.msn.com/media_461551598/Storm_Surge_Barrier_The_Netherlands.html) for one example they have done. I was trying to find the undersea barrier they built as wel;l, but was not able to.

[Rocky Raab]

I'd add this proviso: If you live in NO, you get to decide the issue. If you don't, you don't.

BUT, if you live there and decide to rebuild, the rest of us (who didn't decide) also don't pay for it. If you're on welfare, you work to rebuild, unless you are disabled. Put in less than 40 hours a week, and no more public assistance. There will be no Federal flood insurance (It's already law that you must be six feet above sea level to get it) and you must comply with ALL environmental contamination requirements.

If you decide to re-locate, you will receive assistance until you find work. You'll comply with that state's unemployment and welfare rules.

Hisorical perspective: In the 1930s, drought virtually wiped out the entire middle of the country - they called it the Dust Bowl. Banks foreclosed on farms, businesses and all. There was no Federal assistance. Families packed what they could and moved out, many to California. Before long, states blockaded their borders to keep Dust Bowlers out - unless they had a job pre-arranged. Families picked crops, dug ditches, chopped wood and did whatever they could to feed themselves. They created tent cities outside city limits - called Hoovervilles.

When FDR suggested that the Feds help out with money, the rest of the country almost revolted. They said that free money would hurt the Bowlers sense of self-worth and respectability. They'd quit trying. Ignoring that advice (from the media, no less!) FDR created the welfare state.

And people on it today have no self-respect and zero respectability. They never try to get out of it, either.

All this started with a natural disaster. The Feds (exclusively Democrat back then) ignored the will of the people and created the welfare state.

Today, another natural disaster MAY help topple that welfare state. When the country sees what "cradle to grave" welfare costs - and not just in money but in human values - maybe, just maybe, we'll get back to sane and humane policies.

[Steverino]

Great Post!

Please do inform all of the good folks here at HC as to when your ballot for high political office goes into effect so that we may sign on as your constituents!:p

[Jack]

"When FDR suggested that the Feds help out with money, the rest of the country almost revolted. They said that free money would hurt the Bowlers sense of self-worth and respectability. They'd quit trying. Ignoring that advice (from the media, no less!) FDR created the welfare state. "
Well, no wonder FDR only got re elected 3 times !

[BILLY D.]

probably the thing i most remember fdr for is his statement in front of the movietone news camera in which he said, and i quote, "this number will never be used as a national identification number". the reason for this fear. for you folks younger than i, i'm a grizzled old fart, it was about this time in history that the germans were issueing identification numbers to their citizens. the two most feared words in history to a german jew were "papier bitte". "your papers please". it was in 1936 that my family packed up and left germany and came to america. it seems the americans were smarter and wanted no evidence of a paper trail. untill lately. i was born on the boat during that voyage.

back to the numbers, i haven't trusted a democrat since then. and especially when it, the social security number became my military service serial number along about 1969 or 70.

now should americans help fellow americans. yes. should the federal governmet be mandated ie: should it be a law, to throw in money. up for conjecture. does it not say in the constitution "to provide for the health and well being of the citizenery".

however i think the thought process should also be "if ya don't cover your own a$$ we ain't gonna help ya again" this stuff of seeing the same houses flooded each spring is totally ridiculous.

should n.o. be rebuilt. why, because of the culture, yes it does exist, and history. after all it has been there for awhile now. but they really need to work on their infrastructure and protect thier 6.

that super dome they built was a step in the wrong direction as far as i'm concerned. if they had put that money in flood protection they would be much better off. sure they made some bucks off the super dome, but look what it cost them. but that is life choice as rocky and fabs call them.

[fabsroman]

Okay, I will admit that I just don't have the strength to read past Rocky' post.

I do not want to see New Orleans rebuilt unless they can ensure that it doesn't get flooded again or the residents of New Orleans, as Rocky pointed out, agree not to ask for federal aid when they do get flooded. Congress just passed a bill awarding over $50 billion in disaster aid. I am willing to bet that more will be coming later on. That amount, merely divided by the population of the United States comes to $200 per person. Now, we all know that there are retired folk, non working folk, and welfare folk in the US population. I am willing to bet that each taxpayer has donated indirectly through taxes somewhere close to $1,000 for the disaster, and it ain't over yet.

As far as Venice being below sea level, I don't know about that fact. I have been to Venice and saw the sea and Venice appeared to be slightly above it, albeit not far. However, Venice is sinking and there is nothing that Italy can do to stop that.

As far as insurance is concerned, I am sure that people down there could find some insurance company to insure against flood. However, the premium would be extremely expensive and I am willing to bet that nobody would want to pay it or be able to pay it.

At the end of the day, even if all the New Orleans people decided to sign a waiver of federal funding if they are flooded, do you think the federal government and the politicians in office could just sit back and do nothing if something like this were to happen again. Probably not if they wanted to remain in office the following term.

Regarding the sentimental value of being able to go back to where you used to live, this is called progress. Kind of like the family farm that is sold to a developer so that a condo building or shopping center can be built on it. The kids that used to live on that farm will never be able to go back and tell their children, son/daughter, I used to live here, because their son/daughter would ask, mommy/daddy, how did you live in the middle of Target's parking lot?

Yes, the disaster is a shame. Yes, it would be a shame to lose New Orleans. However, what would be worse is if New Orleans were hit directly by a huge hurricane again that is stronger than the one it just experienced, and 100's of thousands of people died. Try explaining to your children where their grandparents drowned.

In the end, you won't find me living in New Orleans of California or the middle of tornado alley. I'll take my hurricane chances in Maryland, which is rather slim.

[Skinny Shooter]

Since I started this thread can I hijack it for a little comic relief? :D

[Skinny Shooter]

Or even for this:

:D

[Classicvette63]

How about those t-shirts they have now. I survived Hurricane Katrina and all I got was a plasma t.v., computer and 6 pair of air jordans.:D

They'll rebuild NO, no doubt. Why? Because people are stupid that's why. People tempt Mother Nature all over this country and every so often Mother Nature reminds us who is in charge. People just ain't smart enough to learn that.

As far as repair vs total rebuilding. Those houses with 6 ft of water in them have to be demolished and rebuilt from scratch. Or at least they should be. Mold is the new catchphrase that people are worried about and rightly so. No sense surviving a hurricane only to get sick from your repaired house.

[Tater]

Mardi Gras! Show us your...well, you know. Beads, booze and babes.:D

[TreeDoc]

Three reasons, Skinny.......






GIRLS

GONE

WILD


Where else could they film all those T&A flicks, mon ami?

[M.T. Pockets]

In the 1950's a series of dams were built on the Missouri River, in the name of flood control for the "good of the public".

This displaced many, many ranchers off of some of the most productive (not to mention beautiful) ranchland and farmland from Nebraska, through South Dakota, North Dakota and Montana. I know of a couple towns that were moved entirely, and how many ranch sites had to be abandoned. I doubt that they were given a choice by the Army Corp. of Engineers.

This was done for the "public good" with Federal dollars. I know this is small scale compared to N.O. but to the individuals that lost their homes it's no different, they didn't have a say at all.

I'd have to say if the Federal Gov't is buying these damaged homes (Classic's right, their all condemned) then it's up to the Fed's what they want to do with their property from that point on. I don't think it should be rebuilt at this location, this is an opportunity of a lifetime to build the city in a safer location. Who would the Fed's be helping if they allowed rebuilding at this location ? They'd be setting these folks up for another disaster, like parking a car on the train tracks.

[.243hunter]

I think that Ray Nagin has done a fine job as mayor and New Orleans being very historic, should be rebuilt. Our incompetent governer Kathleen Blonco is where alot of the states problems lie. Now New Orleans will be a much better city.

[Andy L]

No way on the rebuild of the flooded sections. That is ridiculous, IMO. Ok, you strip it to the shell, wash the wood, basically rebuild the whole thing. What have you got? (its going to be too late for alot of the wood, btw) What about the soaked crawl space or basement that is still toxic? What about the soil? Thats going no where for a long time. There will probably be some new strains of mold that man has never seen before come out of this due to the mixture of salt, fresh water, sewage, gas, oil, dead bodies and a host of chemicals from countless garages and stores. There is no telling what is going to grow in that soil and affected areas. It will be like a toxic waste dump.

I dont see any way that that city can ever be inhabitable again. I know I wouldnt even consider it, if it were my city, to take my children back into that. We have no clue what kind of diseases may come of that. We dont know because it has never happened. There is a town in Missouri, not far from St Louis, called Times Beach. Although its no comparisson to NO in size, its now gone, many years ago, because some cat was using it for a toxic waste dump. I would consider this along the same lines. There is just no way to clean that city up.

I would say leave the French Quarter for parties, bars and grills, kinda like a vacation spot, but with very few residents. Let the rest go back to what mother nature wanted it to be, wetlands. If she didnt, she wouldnt have made it below sea level and below the level of the Mississippi River. Man keeps encroaching on nature and then whines like a baby when a natural thing happens and they lose it all. New Orleans, or the area it was built on, was mostly meant to be a wetland buffer to protect Baton Rouge and that area. Now thats not hard to see.

Rebuild it, no. Simple for me to see anyway.

Andy

[Rocky Raab]

The pollution laws that the liberal environmental whackos screamed for may well prevent rebuilding much of the city.

[Evan03]

its gona get rebuilt, its gona flood again, they were dumbsh!ts then and theyre the same now

[FIJI]

be•low P Pronunciation Key (b -l )

adv.
1. In or to a lower place; beneath.
2.
a. On or to a lower floor; downstairs.
b. Nautical. On or to a lower deck.
3. In a later part of a given text: figures quoted below.
4. Farther down, as along a slope or valley.
5. In or to hell or Hades.
6. On the earth.
7.
a. In a lower rank or class.
b. Below zero in temperature: 40° below.

prep.
1. Underneath; beneath.
2. Lower than, as on a graduated scale.
3. Downstream of: launched the canoe just below the bridge.
4. South of: Guatemala is below Mexico.
5. Unsuitable to the rank or dignity of: Such petty behavior is below me.

sea level

n. Abbr. SL
The level of the ocean's surface, especially the level halfway between mean high and low tide, used as a standard in reckoning land elevation or sea depths.

[Skinny Shooter]

Hi .243hunter, he sure did do a great job. :D

[Andy L]

Fiji,
I like that. :D

I live near Lake of the Ozarks. Now, its not the ocean, but it does have 1200 miles of shoreline, so its no pond either. N.O. would be like buying a lot in the back of a cove and building a basement house on it. Now, if you put your levees just right, you will be fine, most of the time. Full Pool is 660' above sea level. They normally keep it under 658'. Not much over 659'. But, since there is another huge lake, even bigger, Truman Lake, on the upper end of this lake that dumps into it and its got all the drainage from Kansas, basically, from the Osage River, sometimes it gets a little higher than they want.

Now, would you feel safe with this house? Knowing that the jet stream could get just right to flood Kansas and Missouri for a week and your going to be under water?

Well, same thing.

Andy

[Valigator]

Andy


No....I would not...and no I wouldnt want to pay for the coverage...but what do I know? I live in Ft. Lauderdale....

[FIJI]

One "Bubba" loses a trailer 'cause he lives on a flood plain and he makes the evening news. Everyone calls him a stupid idiot (especially when he rebuilds in the same spot).

485,000 "Bubbas" do the exact same thing and suddenly its a national tragedy ??? And we ALL have to pay??

I'm all for compensation/restitution/ saving the infirmed, and elderly stuck down there (they are the ones at the top of the casualty list....abandoned and left behind like animals in the mass exodus)

I am NOT, however, for my $ going to rebuild some idiots 1/2 million dollar dream home in Jazz land


:mad:

But....YES ya just GOTTA keep the GIRLS GONE WILD !!

[DaMadman]

I am going to be totally honest and say I didn't read the whole thread but It should be rebuilt because if they do the damn levy system right this time, the way it should have been done to begin with, the city would not flood the way it did. Of course there would still have been wind damage but if the levies were right to begin with the flooding would not have happened

[myEspringr]

Maybe they should rebuild maybe they shouldn't but if they do , bulldoze everything the first 2 miles from the gulf then start over. Def need to build larger and stronger levies. It's bad to say but i really don't feel all that bad for them. Sure it's sad but life goes on. I don't like the fact that the idiots were lootin' when they don't even have a home to put it in. Their excuse , " we don't have anything left" well where the heck are you gonna put what you took. I'd be more worried about food instaed of friggin' sneakers. By the time the even get a decent start rebuilding another storm will come in knock'em around again and they'll want more help , probably not this year but next year.

[Deerman]

If they want to rebuild it with there money then fine by me.

[BILLY D.]

back to the original title of the thread. "why should new orleans be rebuilt".

i have struggled for days to keep my big mouth shut. but here goes.

why? because we are americans and thats what we do. we love lost causes. the world trade center is a classic example, look at the repairs to that building after the, i believe it was the '93 bombing.

after some thought i will answer val's copy on how to destroy america, at which time i will probably be banned from this site. i have some really strong thoughts about that one.

[fabsroman]

Billy,

Have you noticed that it has been 4 years since the World Trade Center went down and nothing has been rebuilt there. The 1993 bombing in the garage was nothing compared to the entire destruction of the Twin Towers or the entire destruction of New Orleans.

I never saw Val's post on how to destroy America. Where is it located and what is it called? I would be interested in reading that one.

[Hawkeye6]

Originally posted by fabsroman

I never saw Val's post on how to destroy America. Where is it located and what is it called? I would be interested in reading that one.

Fabs:

Check this one:

http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?threadid=40903

H.