ohhhhh my , message from bullberry

[Evan03]

http://www.bullberry.com/message.html

i do hope fred has fired and handled the new shortmags. otherwise in my mind this entire message is opion orintated and bunk.

the wsms are infact in my opion identical to there older brothers. 270 win 300win, 7mm

he turned right around and said yeah we will build you a 300wiun 338 and such and such but not the short mags.

the message caught me off gaurd, exspecialy comeing from a business like bullberry. why chamber the 204 then. heck they could quit production in barrels all together. theres plenty of barrels already on the market and lots of calibers we dont need.

i hope that hasnt hurt bullberrys sales. i do consider them one great outfit and would like to do business with them in the future even though the picture oif them in my head is now greatly changed.

Evan

[Classicvette63]

I guess Fred is saying enough is enough with all of the unnecessary big boomers out there. I kinda like that.

Some years ago I was in my favorite local gunshop. Some guy comes in and wants to buy a 7mm mag for his rather slight of build 12yr old. It was going to be his first deer rifle. The owner said "You may well buy him a 7mm mag, but it won't be from me." the guy left. The owner did the same thing to a buddy of mine who wanted a .375 for a deer rifle. No go. Pick something reasonable or go elsewhere. My friend picked a .300 win mag(still a little too much). I agreed with owner in both cases.

Mabe Fred doesn't want to bother with tooling up for a mess of calibers that most of which aren't going to be around in 10-20 yrs?

[Evan03]

if i were fred id drop the 338 ultra 7mm 270weatherbys and the like and pick the tamer wsms and rsam, these realy are difrent magnum calibers than the way he explained them.

but i make my own deciosions. and so does he.

the way he exsplained them leads me to belive hes has no exsperince with them. either that or he tried to get them to shoot in a 10" barrel, and that would be no fun at all.

im not bashing fred. lol okay alittle.

ive tried the wsms and no they provide little if any advantage over the standerd old tried and true calibers. balisticaly they shoot the same bullets through shorter barrels just as fast the as the standerds do longer ones.

it would be cool for fred to take 270wsm and test the barrel to the shortest then try 270win, then wich caliber would shine.

he in no way phased out the big boomers. just put infacious on them

[Lone Star]

This topic has surfaced on many other boards. While Fred is entitled to his opinion regardless of his reasons, there is a valid technical reason for not chambering the Encore in the WSM, SAUM, etc. That reason is case head thrust on the action.

The Encore is not a MkV Weatherby, it has safety limits below those of bolt rifles. It was designed with a limit to the amount of case head thrust it can accept, just like the Contender. When loaded to the same chamber pressures, the larger diameter 7mm SAUM exerts ~8% more thrust on the standing breech than a 7mm Remington Magnum does. This may be enough to cause action stretching or at least hard extraction.

If I was a custom barrel maker and knew that many handloaders will load to over-maximum pressures anyway - why would I set myself up for a lot of complaints from foolish customers by chambering for marginally safe cartridges? Frankly, it makes good business sense to eschew these cases. Let those who want the larger diameter cases go elsewhere and complain to those guys - outta be right up VV's alley. ;)

[Evan03]

then he needs to exsplain that

he vagely said the encore contender attention isnt suited to the wsm calibers then he kinda goes of on tangent about big boomers.

either way the wsm arent needed nore are the other big boomers he does chamber.

[Evan03]

since were talking about bull berry

id like to put together a pistol very similar to this, its dang near as fast as a longer barrel in a small package.

id think a weaver v-16 would be ideal and or leo 4-12 or possibly 3-9 with small cross hairs

i tried ruger single 6 in the 17hmr and wasnt happy couldnt shoot the thing for nothin. maybe the single shot and little longer barrel with glass is what im looking for.

[Rocky Raab]

I hope I don't raise any hackles, but I agree completely with Fred. More power is NOT always better.

I was at the range the other day and three guys were shooting ultrawidesupermangleums. One of them asked me "What's the best caliber for shooting elk at 1000 yards?"

I said, "Get a 30-06 - and walk 700 yards closer."

He was pissed. He claimed that he and his Dad do it all the time. They often have to "walk" their shots in, but they get their elk.

I didn't ask how many he thought he gutshot and never recovered. But I did point out that even a 1mph change in the wind will move a bullet a foot or more at that range - and that's a gut shot.

(Oh by the way, both of them were struggling to keep their shots on a target at 200 yards.)

Paper ballistics and some magazine writers are tempting many, many shooters (I refuse to call them hunters) to attempt things that only one in a thousand guys can actually do. But every one of them thinks he's that one....

So a big thumbs up to Fred, and an echo from me.

Oh, BTW, Fred is also concerned with the safety margins of those extra fat cartridges. Make 'em one step fatter and the chamber walls will be as thin as tin foil. The design of the Encore and the older Contender make it impossible to make the barrels fatter. You cannot take away all that metal and operate at extreme pressures. That's why he'll chamber for something like a .338 but not a WSM.

[HPBTMTCH]

The WSM`s are okay, but one of the best reasons for their being is they fit in a short action. The other is suposedly a shorter powder column is more accurate. In the encore, it does'nt make any difference on "action length". And how good a short mag shoots compared to a belted can be argued. So, short mags in an encore don`t have quite the advantage anyway.

[Boyd Heaton]

I was at the range the other day and three guys were shooting ultrawidesupermangleums. One of them asked me "What's the best caliber for shooting elk at 1000 yards?" 300 Ultramag;) :D

[Boyd Heaton]

(Oh by the way, both of them were struggling to keep their shots on a target at 200 yards.) I see that every year a day before deer season with guys shooting their 30-06's.And at ranges alot closer than 200 yards

[Rocky Raab]

That's two of my points exactly, Boyd.

Two of the three had 300 Ultramags and the other had a 300 WSM. All three thought they were the reincarnation of Davy Crockett and as good as any Marine sniper (they actually said that last one).

And none of them could reliably hit a sheet of paper at 200 yards.

I know that there are people (like our friend Boyd here) who is fully capable of making very long-range hits ON THE FIRST SHOT. But I'm also afraid that thousands of people buy mega-magnums and believe that owning the rifle makes them a great shot.

The inevitable wound-and-lose effect on game animals sickens me.

[HPBTMTCH]

Yes Rocky, i see a lot of guys buy a super boomer and then can`t shoot it. Just had a fellow show up with a .338 ultra mag he said did`nt shoot. A few loads later, and a the rest of the box of factory rounds, it never went over 1 1/4 inches, and the best load went into .612 at 100 yards. The thing flat out shoots for a factory 700 rem. He came out and could not get it under 6 inches at 100. He would close his eyes and flinch before the gun went off. He said he did`nt do that with an elk out in front of him. I said good luck to him and waved by as they went out the drive.

[Evan03]

270win
140 acubond (winchester ammo)
2950 muzzle fps energy 2705
270wsm
140 accubond
muzzle 3200 energy 3184.

im loosen this battle, thought they were closer. withn a few hundred.

130gr bts in wsm are at 3275
130gr bts in win are at 3050

the wsm are entire difrent maglmum in my opion. and the thin chamber walls is a good reason not to chamber them. and the only good reason.

[Lone Star]

Yes Rocky, i see a lot of guys buy a super boomer and then can`t shoot it. Just had a fellow show up with a .338 ultra mag he said did`nt shoot...... So true, but then there are the surprises. A guy showed up at the Anchorage range a few years ago just before caribou season. He sat at the bench next to mine wearing safari-grade shirt and shorts, fancy boots, aviator glasses and a B'wana hat - with a brand new Weatherby MkV Accumark (with brake) in .338-.378! He proceeded to load it up with 250-grain factory loads and held the rifle above the bench in an offhand/sitting position. He fired off three quick shots, and I covertly snuck a peak through my spotting scope at his target. I was shocked to see a group just over 1" at 100 yards, a few inches to the right of the X-ring. He made a sight adjustment, fired off three more rapid fire and cased his rifle - he said he was ready for the hunt. I looked at his targets again - another group under 1.5" at 100 yards, this one three inches directly above the x-ring! He really was ready, and with one of the biggest/loudest sooperboomers yuo can buy.