please tell me i dont have to trim,

[Evan03]

sized and preped 40 cases this evening in 220.

got em all prepped and decided to do a dummy round to get the seating depth. i wanted to be just off the land.

what i did was set the seating die to factory hornady 60gr shell then backed it off quite abit.

opend the action on the #1 and dropped the shell in, the bullet was visibly contacting you could definatly tell dug it out with my finger and nudged the bullet down alittle more. dropped it back in then nudged it down.

did this till it dropped all the way in and closed the action. action closed real stiff. i figured that was normal and the lands were seating the bullet alittle farther.

after getting the action all the way closed i pulled the shell out and knudged the bullet down a hair more thinking id be just off the lands.

closed the action on it again and it was still pretty stiff. without realy looking at the bullet i kept nudgeing it down and trying it. then all the sudden i realized it looked like it was a 35gr bullet in big case.

so im now scrathing my head, going hmmmmmm. i then tried a epty sized case. action closed hard on it to. this sent me to reading the resizeing die set up directions again. went through the set up precedure and reset the die. ran another case through it and tried it empty in the action still the action closed firm.

at this point im startn to wonder if im just getting alittle anal. so i chamber the factory live round, goes smooth as silk.

all i can come up with is my cases may need to be trimmed. these are ounce fired frontier cases.

i never came across this with the 270wsm or my 2506

im hopeing the cases can get by atleast a few loadings before i junk em and get new brass.

any ideas and info would be greatly appreciated

thanks

Evan

[BILLY D.]

evan, sounds like you need to size them some more. stick a case in the shellholder, run the sizing die down till you feel pressure on the case, then turn the die about an 1/8th of a turn, then try that case in the chamber, if the bolt is still stiff, run the case back through the die again after lowering it another 1/8 of a turn, keep going till the action closes and the bolt is not stiff.

had same problem on my swift. found out the neck sizing mandrel was stretching the brass.

p.s. i presume you have measured for overall case length. right?

good luck.

[Jack]

On once fired cases, I'd look at the sizing before I'd look at trimming them.
It's possible the cases are over length, but, not usually after one firing.
Set up your sizing die as Billy D has suggested, and make SURE you have some lubrication on the inside of the case necks- the expander button can definitely pull the case neck forward after sizing, as you withdraw the case from the die.
Evan, part of what you're running into, too, is the difference between a single shot and a bolt action. A bolt action has a great deal of leverage to help seat a slightly large case in the chamber, and a single shot does NOT have that leverage. If your cases are barely sized enough, you'll notice right away in a single shot action, maybe not in a bolt action.
Now, the idea of trimming once fired cases to make sure they're all the same length is a good idea, but, not because they're over length-it's to make sure they're all the same length.

[Ol` Joe]

The best way to tell if your cases need trimming is to measure them and quit guessing.
I agree Though, it does sound like you need to size your cases a bit more. The directions with most dies tell you to raise the press ram and screw the die down until contact is made with the shell holder and give them a 1/16 -1/8 turn more, allowing the ram to "cam over" when sizeing. I`d try this set up and see if the case chambers. You can unscrew the die a 8th turn at a time checking the chambering until you reach the min sizeing that will allow your cases to chamber. The die does most of it`s sizeing in the last couple of hundreths of seated depth, remember the shoulders only need to be moved .010" max in most cases from min headspace to max. (+.006 / -.002 is a common headspace tolerance)
The other post recommending lubeing the inside of your case mouths is a very good point. I`ve seen unlubed cases have the expander pull any sizeing done to the shoulder right back out as you open the mouth up. Definately take a Q- tip or nylon brush with a "VERY LITTLE" bit of lube on it and wipe the inter mouth of your cases. This may be all the change in your present method of sizeing that you need to do. Again very little shoulder excess will cause a tight fit in your chamber.

[Evan03]

it was late last night i was tired.

i was setting the die to contact the shell holder then back 1/8. i lube the outside of the case and inside the kneck.

heres what i found today. ounce fired unsuzed cases chamber like normal wich suprised me. wich leads me to belive ive strected all 40 beyond use. unless trimmed. wich im not going to do at present time.

heres what i did. i like smoking things.

i smoked a case kneck. stuck it in the die and ran the ram up to the top of its stroke then screwd the die down till it came into contact with the case kneck. lowerd the shell to see how much was contacting. very little. so i screwd the resizeing die down alittle more.

i did this till i had all the smoke rubbed off the kneck and none on the shoulder. then locked the big lock ring down. and adjusted the deal so it would pop the primer out.

then got my seating depth close and smoked a 55gr vmax smokeing the vmax ended up being kinda uselless. i ended up getting just off the lands after alot of bumping and checking in the chamber with the action closed.

now im just off the lands and the the action closes like silk.

will this work.??

ive essiantualy just knecked sized and thats it.???

im sure ill get to a point were i need to full lenght size and trimm after a few times on the loading bench.

but i think i may get better acuracy. these 55s are seated out quite abit further than the factory ammo.

let me know what you think

Evan

[Catfish]

If you don`t have a set of dial calipers I would recomand you buy a set. It`s very easy to check case lenth with them and you`ll know weather your over max. lenth or not. Most chambers in factory rifles will handle cases well over max. SAMMI specs. anyway, but without a chamber cast you can`t be save with over lenth cases.

[Jack]

Evan, sounds like you've solved the problem.
Might still be a good idea to get a dial caliper, like Catfish suggests, and keep track of your case length, although I doubt that was the problem here.

[Evan03]

jack

what do you think the problem was.

im 100% positive it was case lenght after full lenght sizeing. visualy they look to be longer. just a hair.

one thing i found is kneck sizeing goes way faster and i like the idea of running cases fire formed to my chamber.

[royinidaho]

Evan03.

Let me jump in on this, OK?

I highly recommend the caliper purchase as suggested above.

The swift case grows like mad. I recall trimming every third shot or so through the brass.

By way of warning! If the case gets too long it will 'grab' the bullet upon firing and greatly increase pressure. This will be indicated by a by a bullent NOT being able to be inserted into the fired case.

If you're anything like me you'll develop a love-hate relationship with the swift. Especially in the number 1. Be careful, Bud and keep shootin.

[Jack]

Evan, I think the expander ball was pulling the case necks forward, just a bit, as you withdrew them from the sizing die.
Just a guess....

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

Sounds like you pulled the neck and shoulder forward when re-sizing on the withdrawl stroke. I had this happen with some 6.5x55 Swede cases, turned out to be a faulty die after weeks of hassle trying to figure out exactly what was going on. the shop exchanged the dies and problem solved:rolleyes:

[Cal Sibley]

All case necks grow but not at the same rate. I measure my necks before resizing. When they are definitely too long you will notice land marks on the neck. I cheat a little bit by sizing the cases just a little more than recommended. Like you I am not a big fan of case trimming. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[MarkL]

Sinclair sells a little doo-dad that allows you to determine the max case length for your particular rifle. As I recall, I can go about .050" over spec in my .223 (i.e. a lot). It's a number worth knowing so you don't have to trim unnecessarily.

[Cossack]

It sounds like shoulder location was more a problem than case length. Since cases grow at differnt rates, it's important that you can measure them after sizing regardless how you size. Neck sizing alone will not prevent your cases from growing. Even when necksized, a case that is too long can create pressure spikes if it extends into the lead. And while it may or may not be dangerous, it won't do anything for accuracy. So cases need to be checked that they don't exceed the max OAL for your rifle. And, since accuracy is a matter of uniformity, I think it's best to start with cases that are all the same.
Sinclare does make the Comparator that measures max case length at the shoulder
as well as cartridge OAL at the ogive. They are seperate tools that attach to a caliper.
Lyman also makes guages that measure the max case length of most cartridges. Or you could make one yourself using a piece of aluminum or even plastic and a file.

[Win75]

I may be anal in my approach to loading hunting ammo but I trim every case, whether it is new out of the bag or once fired. I check the cases for every loading after that also.

I have found that many times new brass is in fact in need of trimming.

I just trimmed a box of Norma 6.5x55 brass after firing the factory load. Every case except one was excessively long.

[Evan03]

i reload for the pure and simple fact that i can easealy alot of times produce loads in my rifles that are better than factores.

ounce it becomes hard or turns into alot of work to do this ill be rright back fireing facotry fodder and ill be glad to do it.

so far the 220 and 2506 havent proved me wrong in my acuracy quest agaisnt factory ammo.

im sure one of these days a caliber will put me to the test ill have to do more work than i want to and itl ruin me to reloading for good

so far ive loaded the same set of cases 3 times in the 220 with nothing more than kneck sizeing. and things are going good.

im watching the brass close. im not pushn hot loads im shooting for acuracy and im running slower than most guys shootin 220s. im actualy well within reach for me to catch this 220 with 22/250 ifn so i can push upper end loads through the 250.

then you ask why two calibers so close. well i guess thats just my love of sport shining through.

if my life does slow down my truck doesnt need worked on work and things just all mellow out then i may jump head on into this reloading thing. as it is right now its keeping me real busy.

i guess im kinda half way bandaiding this but so far the sticky side is sticking just enough to keep good results comeing in that are good enough for me