270wsm vs 270win

[Evan03]

only posting this because model70 seems to be missing this one each time.

in my opion the wsm is a hair better balisticaly when 130 140 and 150gr bullets are used.

140gr bullets at 3200.

but speed isnt everything

everyones comments welcome.

the 270wsm is the only wsm caliber i think ill have, ive actualy been yearning for 22" barreld ruger walnut blued 270wsm with moderate glass 14power maybe 12 as a high mtn all around muley getting that doesnt weigh to much.

[model 70]

hmmm...

is this a hunting rifle? do you truely think a "hair better" will matter in the field? a few hundred fps faster won't matter much either. is that wsm ammo as widely available or have the variety of loadings? how much is the brass alone? is the wsm as proven in the field on game as the "old .270"?

nice try though.

[Evan03]

actualy i have no idea how much brash costs, but ive got stock pile of 270wsm brass. a box of 140gr bts left and not quite half a jar of imr 4350

i have no idea wether the few hundred feet per second is measured from 22" or 24" barrel.

the simple fact is on paper it beats the 270win into the mud. but papaer is no place to be.

the 270win is tried and true and so close to matching the scribbled on paper that its just as good even better.

not sure but i thgink i may have hinted towards this in my last line in my thread

Evan

ps

new keeps us going and im so so glad we still have new calibers comeing out.
though i never do see the old tried and true calibers becomeing obsolete.

heck i dunno 10 years from now we may be shooting 277 rifles that shoot to 6000fps and we site in dead on at 100yds and drop 3"s at 500 instead of closer to 4 feet of drop at 500.

even when that day comes our old calibers will still be going strong

[Evan03]

this is the difrence

270win 140 accubonds at 2950
270wsm 140 acubonds 3200

270win drop at 400yds 19"s
270wsm 16"s

i dont know wether that 3 inches is worth even taken notice of

at 500yds the 270win still has 1287 ft/lbs of energy

while the wsm has 1555 ft/lbs

for some reason, i just checked the 280rem balistic and trajecotory and its a hair closer to the wsm than the 270.

though the wsm does have more knock down power out further than both.

you know i could realy care less wich one is better. i kinda bring it up because i thought you didnt because this would come up.

the simple fact is i play with calibers just for fun, i could do without the 27win and wsm. but i tend to like the 277 cals.


i want 6mm right bad.

[model 70]

ok

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

Sorry but I simply cannot see the sense in the 270 WSM, for a start a 22" barrel is not going to provide the best velocity, you need 24" and prefrably 26". There has also been feeding problems with that short fat case in rifles supposedly set up for the new cartridges from the factory.

The normal 270 Winchester, well never heard of a feeding problem and the old saw about long actions and long bolt throw is just cobblers IMHO :rolleyes: Nope I'll stick with the old 270 Winchester and know comfortably that it will get the job done and the cartridge will feed from the magazine like a hot knife through butter. If I want more punch down range for any reason then I will use a larger/more powerful (delete as appropriate ) calibre :D ;)

Two of my 270's have 22" barrels the third which is the first rifle I ever brought has only a 20" barrel, it's a BSA CF2 Stutzen and I have never worked out just why they chambered this rifle in the 270 win cartridge when with such a short barrel it negates some of it's advantage. The short barrel would have been better chambered in 7x57 Mauser or 6.5x55 SE. Oh it's accurate enough but I found when reloading for it that Medium burning rate powders are best otherwise you get a big fireball from the muzzle from the unburnt powder buring as it exits:rolleyes: It's quite surprising just what a difference that 2" can make on a barrel:p

[Evan03]

ive been on reloading kick lateing, for some reason im getn into brewing my own, this happens about ounce every two years. ;)

anyway, ive been researching alot of difrent calibers ounce i have and some that i want. the 6mmrem and others.

ive looked at 270win info on almost all the websites. and ive found some loads that puts it right there with wsm. mine is the 22" barreld remington. and has been my rifle for 12 years.

i had 24" barreld 270wsm in crf action from winchester. i loved the rifle but im not positive about the controled feed action. id also get stuck tryn to drop one in chamber and close the bolt on it. you can not do this with the action.

i never did cut the barrel 2" shorter so i cant tell you how muzzle blast was with 22" barrel. but i can tell you with full house stoked loads the 24" barrel kept the rifle tame enough for me just as tame as my 270win shooting factory fodder.

though the caliber may be useless to most all of us, i think it has place right here along side all the other useless calibers.

Evan

[Brithunter]

Hi Evan,

Ahh well now the 6mm remington is one I am waiting to play with, trading into a Parker-Hale Model 1200V in this chambering, it has a 24" heavy barrel but as they forgot to add 6mm expanding ammo on my ticket and I then re-located so I have not got it all sorted out I have yet to fire it. Monies too tight to set up with components for reloading so it will just have to wait for now. I did fing a sorce of soem factory Winchester ammo for a reasonable price but here the ammo is writen onto our licence when you buy it and as I say they forgot the expanding part so ............:rolleyes:

[Evan03]

i have rem vt 22/250 with a shot out barrel,

ive been kickn around turning it into 243, but that was before i was reloading much, now that im on reloading kick ive decided on the 6mmrem, in all info i can find its hair faster(better?) than the 243. since ill be strickly loading for it ill have all the ammo available the 243win has

but i cant decide to build or just get another ruger bolt action, it cost me about 500 to have 22/250 rebarrel withe barrel i want and 475 to just pick up new walnut blued ruger bolt action.

so im not sure wich way to on this one

Evan

ps

i love meduim to small caliber for hunting. im way excited about the 6mm. id imagine its not long before i have one. ;)

[Catfish]

Rule of thumb is 100 fps. will get you abt. 5 yrds. on max. point blank range. This does depend on the BC of the bullet, but it is close. You know me Evan and saw what I was carring when I was out coyote hunting and probibly one of the few guys on the board that have had more different rounds than you have had. In my honest oppenion I really don`t think it matters much what round you use as long as you have enough to do the job. It`s mostly what you want and I would think you would have figured that out by now. :D The game don`t know the difference, it all in what you want. ;) A gun is a tool to some people, but to guys like you and me they are toys, why else would I have a wildcat that can push a 300 gn. bullet to the same velosities as a .375 H&H mag. when I never plan to hunt Aferica? If youwant it get it.

[Evan03]

catfish

yeah my rifles are tools and i have a few of em ;)
but it seems i keep wanting more of em and trying new and difrent calibers.

the 204 was kinda blah and chances are id have it loaded below its potential if loaded for it. think id rather have 222 or something than the 204.

the 270wsm is bout identical but may be a reason later on to try it agin and get another ruger.
the 300 win just didnt seem to suite me like the 3006

and it seems the 22/250 and 220 have stuck as my big 224 calibers

the 2506 and 270 are here to stay as my bigger cals along with the 3006.

then that leaves with playing with 6mm or 243 with high bc bullets and big selection of em.
thats whats next on the list.

hows everything been going with you? anything new?

Evan

[PJgunner]

Evan 03 said, "the simple fact is on paper it beats the 270win into the mud. but papaer is no place to be."


No I am known for trashing the "egg-spurts" in the gun rags However, when one does do it right, I'll damn well say so. SHOOTING TIMES, OCTOBER 2005, Page 30, the .270 Win. vs the .270 WSM by Layne Simpson.

On page 33, theere is a velocity comparion between factory and handload between the two cartridges.

.270 Win. .270WSM Difference
Highest vel. handloads (130gr.) 3153 3263 +WSM
" " " factory* (130gr.) 3218 3156 +Win.
" " " handloads (140gr.) 3011 3040 +WSM
" " " factory* (140gr.) 3077 3134 +WSM
" " " handloads (150gr.) 2952 3036 +WSM
" " " factory# (150gr.) 2841 3058 +WSM

* Hornady's light magnum. Winchester's 130 gr. Ballistic Silver tip was 2921 FPS. Winchester's 140 gr. Accubond was 2953 FPS.

# Winchester's 150 gr. Power point.

Based on this, it would seem to me that with either the federal High Energy, Hornady light Magnum or good handloads, you can come close ebough to the WSM specs ans to make the round negligible.
With a proper handload using H-4831, my .270 delivers 3,000 FPS right on the nose with a 150 gr. Nosler partiton. Don't seem worth the extra money yo buy a WSM.
Paul B.

:D

[model 70]

i'm still waiting to hear an applicable advantage the WSM has over the old .270 round on game. NONE!

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by model 70
i'm still waiting to hear an applicable advantage the WSM has over the old .270 round on game. NONE!

MODEL 70

me too. and the other short mags don't show a big advantage over their parent cartridges. the 243 is absolutely pathetic.

these short mags might? be alright for entry level hunters but i sure ain't gonna throw away all my guns and run out and buy a short mag cause they are cutesy.

[model 70]

yep. 200fps more or 100-200ft. lbs more of energy won't kill a deer, hog, bear, antelope, etc. any deader than the old tried and true. bullet drop? guess you'll just have to sight an inch or two higher at 100 yards than dead on and that's being generous to the WSM. it all seems relative. the newbies still kick, they're still THAT loud and the ammo is a bit more pricey. not worth it if ya ask me

[Evan03]

on that note you myswell start shooting a 2506

[Evan03]

or anything else smaller than 277 bullet in 270win case. this cartridge must just be over kill for 90% of hunting.
smaller calibers are easier to shoot and make you and me better shooters.

no reason ever to go to something so big. the 270 270wsm 7mm 7wsm 3006 280 300win

wipe these calibers from exsistince let me keep my smaller ones and id never skip a beat. you could even take my 2506 from me and id be fine hunting elk with a 243.

from what you said the 270win is just to much rifle and you need something smaller.

how right you are youl never know;)

now dont have a cow.

you some how ended up with 270win, that doesnt make it the king of all kings. though it is a very.

you can argue it any wich way you want. so can i the simple truth is there are calibers better and some not as good as the 270win. not saying the 27wsm is better. its difrent and may suit some others difrently. but not better

argue away. ive dissrespected the king.

Evan


ps

i think id sujest the 243 over the 223. that way you can get light recoiling deer rifle that youl shoot alot.

[model 70]

hmmmm, lumping the .270win with the 300win mag in terms of overkill on deer? not so sure about that one.

fact of the matter is, your 25/06 holds no advantage over my .270 but my .270 can do more due to it's heavier bullet selection. not MUCH more. just a "hair".:D

i have a .243 already.

[Evan03]

cool.

didnt realize you had a 243.

the one if only advantage my 2506 has over my 270 is shootability. if thats an advantage at all. i tend to think that whatever advatage the 270 does have over the smaller. more girlish calibers is that girls like me put thousands of rounds through them and get very good.

ive had my 270 some 7 years longer than my 2506. but i bet ive shot as many as twice as many rds through my 2506.

there a was time when the 270 was the best caliber ever. there wasnt anything bigger or smaller that would ever be better. i mean nothing you could show me knew this, old that faster more energy there and i wouldnt care.

i dont even know how i found out about a 2506. probly the dang internet. i started reading alot, bought a 22/250 as my first rifle and realized that this shooting hunting sport could be alot more fun, with nothing more than lowering recoil.

something planted a 2506 bug, ohhhhhh i shot one. then i had to have one and got one this one.

and its that bug that was planted in me to get the 2506 thats driving me. i could have done everthing i wanted with my 270. but at the cost of not ever knowing what i was missing in other calibers. but then i wouldnt know so it wouldnt matter. ??

but i do know and im glad for that. becausethis world and perspective i see hunting and shooting in has forever changed. and all the thanks goes to the small 2506

i like small calibers that you know better than the back of your hand.

these in my opion are acurate and lethal on all but the largets game. keep in mind the right shooter behind the trigger. and how small the small caliber is

and thats not exscludeing the 270 from that list of lethal deadly weapons. and it is on my list. heck it should be. i started this hunting life with it and its done me better than good.

but as I evolve the rifle doesnt get used near as much as my smaller stuff. that doesnt mean that its now not as good as it was just ive changed and my opions and views are now begining to form in certian direction. that in the begining might have strayed and faulterd. but now it seems to be holding steady. in one direction



this thread realy isnt even about the 270 vs wsm, its it. ? it realy cant be.

the fact is ive tried bigger and smaller and i like the smaller than 277 calibers for everything. im not pushing my opion on you just putting it out there for you and everyone else to see and think. heck maybe even learn something.

so when you see me kinda downing the 270win, im realy not im just giveing my point of view from what i see from the direction ive been looking in.

thank you
Evan

[model 70]

ok, first off i never called nor implied you were a girl or less of a man (which in this context is more subjective than pure fact) for shooting a cartridge with a slightly smaller bore diameter.

what you should have stated about your 25/06 is that it is a better cartridge for YOU over the .270 and for reasons that do not pertain to ballistics in any way.

if it's easier to shoot more accurately for you than it's a better round for your rifle to be chambered in.

while on the bench the .270 makes me take notice after the 3rd or 4th shot. doesn't mean i can't handle it and it sure the heck doesn't mean i can't shoot it accurately. it's best suited for ME.

done.

[Evan03]

i guess even i cant make fun of myself any more.

shhhheeeeeeeeesh :)


if your being defensive you shouldnt be. you have no reason to unless you doubt yourself.

this thread is for 100% of the people out there. other than you. this thread is for the open minded. obviously other than you.

again it looks like i took a stab at something id of rather left alone.


a hole hearted apoligy.

Evan

[Evan03]

"and thats not exscludeing the 270 from that list of lethal deadly weapons. and it is on my list. heck it should be. i started this hunting life with it and its done me better than good. "


"the fact is ive tried bigger and smaller and i like the smaller than 277 calibers for everything. im not pushing my opion on you just putting it out there for you and everyone else to see and think. heck maybe even learn something."


"yep. 200fps more or 100-200ft. lbs more of energy won't kill a deer, hog, bear, antelope, etc. any deader than the old tried and true. bullet drop? guess you'll just have to sight an inch or two higher at 100 yards than dead on and that's being generous to the WSM. it all seems relative. the newbies still kick, they're still THAT loud and the ammo is a bit more pricey. not worth it if ya ask me"
recoil is about identical, so close you cant tell wich is less shooting side by side in like 7.5lb rifles. I reload. therefor its cheaper at times. but not everyone does makeing this kinda for the wanting hunter who reloads.
ummmm pretty close to dead nuts on at 300 with 1.5" high at 100. ill have to check on that and post back though im not positive how much we should be reliyn on printed trajectors. or balistics. its just print on paper after all. I know first hand exsperince recently has opend my eyes on that subject.

87.8975 percent of people will shoot a 2506 243 7mm08(fullsize rifle) 257 roberts. and the like much better than the bigger 3006 cased calibers.

any way you look at the 270 is one of the best when it comes to killing deer, and other game.


im realy at a loss for words. ive got no idea what to say.

if you were closer id load up a bunch or 2506 shells and give you my 2506 for the year.

Evan

[model 70]

say nothing then. you prefer the 25-06. who cares?
i prefer the .270, who cares?

both kill deer. your cartridge of choice is better suited to you as mine is to me. GET IT?!! good. not lets drop THAT debate.

oh and btw, this thread is for ANYONE who cares to post in it. even me. deal with it.

[fabsroman]

Model 70,

I haven't read the entire thread, but I will hand it to you, you have learned from all the other postings about the .270 subject.

There is no ideal cartridge, and most people pick them just because they want to. Seems as though you have picked up on that.

If I had the money, I would have at least one gun in each cartridge offered and would have several shotguns in the same gauge.

[Evan03]

:)

[brandoneh297]

Why is it that everytime something new comes out thats a little more effective than the "old' calibers, the "old' hunters seem to feel threatened? The 270 is still a good round but the 270wsm beats it in every category. Why wouldn't you want something that's been improved from the past and changed into something more effective? I love all the new calibers that are coming out. If they keep improving the ammunition we have available I'll gladly keep getting rid of my old guns for somethng more accurate(which the wsm are by the way). I guess things never will change though. Old people love their old stuff and hate anything young and new. Oh well, I continue to shoot circles around you guys when I see you at the shooting range. Sorry I just get frustrated when something is judged harshly merely on the fact that its "new" and they love their "old" way just fine.

[model 70]

sorry, not every category. if that were the case, .270win sales would PROBABLY drop and WSM would sore.

[rem 700]

I believe this is called(correct me if I am wrong) "denial." WSM beats the original by a long shot. Performance and popularity are different things to speak of.

[Brithunter]

Hi brandoneh297,

You are a salesmans dream:rolleyes:

Well one day they might get your new fangled fat little cartridges to feed properly, but then again with folks like you around possibly not as you will buy it anyway just because it's new and they claim it's better. The quality of the guns your paying all that money for is not better than those of 20 or so years ago. In fact it's the other way around.

Accuracy has improved ....................... yes but that is due to better made bullets and not your new fangled salesman aimed products. Oh and the short fat cartridge is not even a new US idea ...................... sorry but the British .280 from the late 1940's beat them to it. It was due for adoption in the mid 1950's but that didn't suit the US who bribed NATO into adopting the 7.62x51 so they could adopt their stocks of 30-06 rifles to the new cartridge, only when this was tried it was found not to work very well and new barrels had to be fitted instead. And all this time the USA's idea was to push NATO into adopting the 5.56mm (AKA.223) and have the M16 as the std Nato weapon, only that didn't quite pan out either.:eek:

Enough of politics and history though;) I have still not seen one single real advantage in the WSM cartridges, the supposedly advantage of the shorter bolt throw is all in the mind as is the stiffer action of a short action rifle. For if this one were true then the Ruger No1 would out perform every bolt action except possibly the Mauser 66 which has a telescopic bolt and so a very short action;)

Though not being that old nor that stuck in the dark Ages otherwise I would not be using this computer:p I still find pleasure in shooting classic rifles, ones in which quality was the by-word, these classics were not designed to be throw away items which they would like us to have now. But quality craftsmen made precision weapons, built with care and pride. They also cost the purchasers much more in their day than the slipshod ones mass produced today cost you! Despite the craftsmen not having the aid of computer coltrolled machinery, they worked to such fine lmits that parts are interchangable in most makes, this certainly seems to be the case in Mauser, DWM, BSA, Husqvarna and Steyr with which I have had experience with.

Hunting with a rifle made 50-120 years ago is a joy and they are all nitro cartridges as well, in a Pattern 14 rifle for instance the old warrior the .303 British cartridge can be improved upon by using modern powders and as the P-14 was designed for a high pressure cartridge the .276 Enfield, velocity can be safely increased to make it even more efficient now than it was 114 years ago when it was first loaded with the early Cordite smokeless propellent. I know of one Fallow pricket who had a tough couple of seconds dealing with the 150 Grn Hornady Spire Point which I put into his chest from the BSA P-14 based sporting rifle at higher velocity than any reloading manual shows :p This BSA was a fairly new one being made about 1952. Of course even at the normal (what would be slow velocity to you, seeing as how your are suffering from the dreaded Magnumitus) .303 velocity the deer would still have been dead, but I was having fun experimenting with loads and seeing just how this old warrior could perform once again in the field :) I also know that this rifle will feed the next round, after all this rifle design and possibly this rifles action went through the bloodiest conflict, which of course was WW1. The Great War! failure during this time would have cost the soldier his life, your toys can never hope to have such a trial.

And toys they are that is unless you live by them and possibly die by them. My collection of toys give me imense pleasure as I hope yours do you;) However as to the matter of the benifits of the WSM craze, sorry it's not for me, the only possible way I could see me using one would be in a falling block single shot rifle, but then again there are so many proven classics which can do the job, cost less and more easily available so ..............................?

[Evan03]

Brithunter

who knows maybe another 100yrs will tell.

how many difrent calibers did we have in 1920
how many in 1940
1960
1980
2000
2020


does the caliber list grown in spurts or is it slow and steady. maybe between 1920 and 40 5 calibers were invented. or maybe the calibers from the 20s were finaly figured out by the 40s.

however it works out im glad it worked out the way it has so far.

Evan

[royinidaho]

270 Winchester - 27" Lilja bbl. Installed by Ray Montgomery of Grand Junction Co. Other than that she's a standard winnie.

When she had a 24" Douglas bbl (took 30 years to wear it out) standard loads were:

Sierra 130 boat tail - 3190 fps
Sierra 90gr - 3400 fps.

W/N-204 could get the 90 to 3600+ just couldn't get the N-204.

With the Lilja BBL:

130 sierra/135 Sierra/140Hornady/135 Lost River - 3200 fps. Could go to 3250+ but what's the sense.

90gr Sierra - 3700 fps.

BTW accuracy is in the 0.5MOA range. Gave the rifle to my son who will shoot his first Muley buck on October 15 at about 8:21 in the morning at a range of between 475 and 560 yds.

The difference between the winnie and the WSM is that this one is in-hand and shootin' :rolleyes:

[model 70]

we've gone over this time and time again. the day i can get any rifle chambered in the WSM as i can the old .270 is the day i seriously look for a WSM. same goes with bullet selection. i'm sure if i handloaded i could get that old .270 round to do anything the short mag can do but i don't. big selection of loadings from the factory is important to me.

i've also stated that in the field, any advantage the WSM has over the .270win is purely academic. sure, you can get all excitied over what it says in print but when bullet hits flesh, you wouldn't have known the difference and niether would the deer. doubt he would care either.

enjoy your short mag and i'll enjoy my OLD .270

[model 70]

http://huntchat.com/showthread.php?threadid=40291

7th post down, 4th paragraph into it. quite an interesting take from mr. evan :D

[Evan03]

"back to the topick. i think the wsm hav an advantage in the recoil dept and that dept only. i dont see any balistic improvements. anywhere. but recoil when compared to the 270wsm and 270win. the wsm is definatly less when pushing hot 140gr loads."

my words word for word, but i must say ill fix my typeing err.
The wsm i belive to have an advantage when pushing 140gr bullets. 3200fps is not unheard of

here she is for all others to view easier

and this is another one recently posted(few minutes ago) that state the same thing.


word fro word from the magnum not needed topic in the rifles forumn.

"let the hunters who have exsperince with the calibers give the best information. ill tell you i concider the wsm and win277 calibers about as close to identical as you can get. but i still like them both alot. "

have i said i like them both??????
i brought the topick up more for other hunters than you. we both know the 270win is just as good. but for the hunter who doesnt already have 277 caliber. id like to see them concider both then make a decision.

however i wouldnt through the weatherby 270 in the mix. to much go juice for the intended job i think. but that just my opion i havent had exsperince with the caliber. its suposed to be one heck of a long range deer and antelop getter. if i had one id even give her a go on elk. but i like my little calibers

plus im behind on my reloading as it is.

Evan

[model 70]

i agree with you on the weatherby thing.