First "bad" Experience with Mechanicals

[petey]

Ever since I switched to my Mathews I started to shoot carbons with Shockwave mechanical broadheads. This mainly because I was not shooting a drop-away rest and with the 5” helical twisted 2213 XX78 fronted with fixed bladed Kolpin twisters would not tune all to well. My medicine became 4” straight veined with mechanicals. They shot straight and my bow was tuned for them. When I made the decision to go to mechanicals I decided only until I had a bad experience with them.

Now, I’ve probably taken 6 or more deer with this setup so far and all have been good clean quick kills. Some of you even saw how quickly when I was filmed shooting a buck on TV 2 yrs ago. Granted most of the shots were broadside shots. One thing I have noted is that my penetration is far less than shooting those ol Lincoln Logs with the fixed blade. I could always pound an arrow through even two shoulders and get penetration beyond belief…. Anyhow on to the story

I’ve been seeing a lot of activity in the woods, mostly new scrapes and rubs. Since Saturday, our opener I haven’t seen too many deer though.

Of course I only hunted Thursday night which was about 82 degrees at 4:00 PM and Friday it rained all day, but I went out around 4:30 and “snuck” around. I about stepped on a doe and she just about met her demise but never offered a good shot.

On Saturday I decided I was getting hungry for Jerky so I had made up my mind I would take a doe if the opportunity presented itself. It was a pretty cold windy morning and around 10:00 I see a nice old grizzled doe and a smaller one coming my way.

They are at 40 yards broadside, then turn and walk to about the 25 yard mark. I come to full draw on the big doe that is now broadside at 25 yards. The smaller doe steps in front of her no longer offering a good shot so I wait still at full draw. The large doe looks up at me and takes two steps kind of toward me and stomps her foot, now offering a slight quartering forward shot. I set my pin right on the shoulder for the angle and squeeze the trigger on my release. Now prior to this moment I had taken many, many animals offering the same if not a “worse” angled shot which never presented a problem shooting fixed blades. I just drove my arrow down through and that was all she wrote…. Not this time, though

As my arrow hit the doe it did something quite unexpected. Because of the angle and the working of the blades opening, the arrow slid right along the shoulder blade and straight upwards into the deer’s spine. Completely opposite of the angle I was shooting!! This created a 6” + gash across the hide. Of course the end result was a doe laying on the ground with quick expiration from a second shot behind the shoulder through the boiler room. As I inspected the shot, I found my first arrow hit NO vital organs even though it centered the shoulder blade on a downward angle. The broadhead snapped off at the threads which I did not recover. The second shot went through the deer practically cutting the opposite leg off. I can say they are VERY devastating on broadside shots, but this shot really upset me. Could I have waited for a better shot? Possibly, but she had me made since she was staring right at me and I made the call. I’m sure I would have had different results had I placed the arrow in front of the shoulder going with more of a Texas Heart Shot rather than drive one home through the shoulder. By the way, I'm shooting 74 pounds in case you were wondering.

The end result…a dead doe, poor performance on the broadhead as far as I was concerned. I never had a problem with the fixed blades taking an easy shot like that. Even though it’s 1 of 6 to “fail” in my book it’s enough. I’ll stick to my heads this season since it’s a little late to be switching around, put on a drop-away next year and go back to my ol Lincoln Logs with Fixed blades. After all, I never had that setup make me think twice about a shot and haven’t lost one yet..

Just a little story I thought you may all like to hear. It finally happened to me! One bad experience is enough for me :D

[Rustywreck]

What were you using for a shaft?
If you do choose to change broadheads, you don't have to change shafts; though you will likely want to change to a helical fletch.

[fabsroman]

Petey,

I had almost the same thing happen to me a couple of years ago. That was the last deer I shot with a bow because I haven't had the time to fix the problem. I bought the fixed blade broadheads but haven't had the time to play around with the bow.

My doe was a quartering away shot as 9 of them were leaving from under my tree because one of the was stomping and snorting like crazy. Anyway, I put the arrow right behind the shoulder blade. I thought it was a good shot but she ran out of view and I didn't get out of my stand until late because my buddy was hunting about 50 yards further up and he hadn't killed anything yet. The next morning I went to recover the deer because neither he nor I had a flashlight that night (i.e., we were morons). The mechanical broadhead got stuck on the far shoulder and the carbon arrow had broken in half. I found one half of the arrow with a little blood on it where I hit the deer and the other half was still in the deer.

At the end of the day, I'm not too impressed with mechanical broadheads, but I only tried them on that single deer. That shot was less than 20 yards and I shoot a 69 pound bow.

[petey]

I was using carbons; X-press I believe is the brand. I always fletched my own aluminums and actually have about 2 dozen freshly fletched with a 5” Right helical that still need cut off. Those are xx78 Superlights in 2213’s. Total length is around 25”s. (I do have a few pre-made just to shoot)

I’m down to 4 carbons now, the other two I had shot the nocks off practicing and demolished those. They just don’t take a beating. Either they are straight or broke.

Anyhow, I know my bow shooting those aluminums get better penetration b/c 2 weeks prior I shot my carbons (with field points) and the aluminums side by side and got at least 3-4” more penetration in the Block target with the aluminums. It just makes sense that a heavier arrow will have more foot pounds of energy down range. I shot 75 pounds from my dual-camed High Country, but this Solo-Cam shooting carbons just doesn’t seem to have the same energy. Of course we’re taking about a 37” bow vs a 32” bow too.

Anyhow I’ll be eating backstraps tonight, but I thought I’d just share that experience I had in case anyone cares ;) ha ha. Hopefully I’ll have a better story in 2 weeks when I shoot the next PA record :D

[fabsroman]

Petey,

Those are the same carbon arrows that I shoot. I had to buy some replacement nocks for them and some replacement tips. However, I have only broken two out of two dozen, but I seriously doubt I have been using my bow as much as you or any other serious bowhunter has. Just haven't had the time.

I also think it is common knowledge that aluminum arrows will penetrate better than carbon, but that carbon has better speed to allow a little more room for error in the distance judgment category. Of course, with the invention of bow mounted range finders, that whole error issue is kind of moot.

[Rustywreck]

Petey,
Don't mean to start an arguement or anything like that, but using penetration into a foam target isn't a good way to compare aluminum to carbon shafts.
The increased speed at which the carbon shaft hits the foam create extra friction melting of the foam which slows the arrow down faster than aluminum.
An example of this is a 3-D target. You will likely find it more difficult to remove a carbon shaft than an aluminum. This is largely due to the friction the carbon shaft creates.
KE charts typically show a trade off between slower, heavier arrows compared to lighter, faster arrows - they often rate about the same KE.
I've switched back and forth between the two several times - currently using carbon shafts.
The straightness and ease of tuning an aluminum arrow is what I like best about them.
However, I shoot 20+ deer a year, so being able to use the same carbon shaft repeatedly has its advantages.

[petey]

No sense in arguing :D. You make a very good point.

I guess I'm saying from my observations (even shooting deer) that my aluminums always penatrated more. Actually probably 90% would be complete pass throughs... Now that being said I could probably blame the main reason for only 1 of 6 pass throughs using carbons on the mechanical broadheads I was using. Since the energy it takes to open the blades probably takes a lot out of the end result.

Now I'm not really comparing apples to apples here. I shot aluminums with fixed blade vs Carbons with mechanicals. The first combo almost always presented pass throughs even hitting major bone sometimes. The second combo almost never presented that type of penetration.

I'm strickly making my comparison off of a target I shoot into, specificly one that uses friction to stop. You're right, a carbon arrow is A LOT more "rougher" (if that's the term to use) and therefor would cause more friction and not penetrate as far in that type of target.

I've never shot the carbons with fixed blade b/c I could never find a combo that shot well, even when the bow was paper tuned. Kind of why I just said, "oh well I'll use mechanicals".

When I switch back, it will proabably be aluminums b/c I have 2 dozen freshly fletched and ready to go and I know that combo works just fine. You are very right though about the carbons. I've shot all 6 deer with the SAME arrow. They do hold up and more than likely I would have smashed an aluminum on Saturday

The main "bash" is on the broadheads :D

I always hated using those carbons on 3D shoots ;)

Fabs,

I shoot a Trophy Ridge Micro Matrix sight (5 V-Pins) My pins are set from 20-60 yards. Where I hunt I could probably get a 40 yard shot, but I doubt I would ever have to make that type of shot since probably 95% of the deer I have taken have been 20 and under. Why the 50 and 60 yard pin? Well I hunt out West and I'd never go on an elk or mule deer hunt with just a 40 yard pin. Even at 30 yards both my 20 and 30 yard pin are still on the vitals of a deer. So if I miss-judged the yardage by 10 yards and actually set my 20 yard pin high in the lungs (like I normally would for a treestand shot) I would still more than likely get a heart shot. Makes my job real easy for judging yardages :D

The bow is very forgiving to 30 yards...past that you better be within 5 yards of the yardage.

The difference between 0 yards and 20 yards is so minor that I don't even bother with a 10 or 15 yard pin. Almost always I use the ol "Top" pin.....The rest are for backup :D

[Steverino]

When I first started bow hunting a couple of seasons ago, after reading all of the pros and cons, I opted not to select mechanicals in my overall set-up for this very reason.

One more possible thing to go wrong. IMHO, I figured that I would have enough variables to keep things interesting.:D

I've been using Muzzy's the past two seasons and have had good success. This year I will be using NAP Pro fixed broadheads in my set-up. I also use Carbon Express graphites (Eliminators-5" helical offset fletchings)

I know that there are hunters that swear by mechanicals and tout that they fly just like their fieldpoints- blah, blah, blah but I'll stick with my fixed head arrows thank you very much!;)

[Virginiashadow]

After a few years with mechanicals, I switched over to Muzzy's last year and was happy...this year I am using a 2 blade fixed and they shoot very accurately with my Beman 340 Carbons.

vashadow

["yote"]

Get rid of the "training wheels" and start using the good ol'
"Stick and a String " and you won't be having any of those
problems. JMHO.

[skeeter@ccia.com]

I too tried mechanicals for 2 shots...both shots were broadside and only made a hole in and out the size of the shaft because they never opened. The first deer continued to eat then walked away a few yards and layed down. After looking around for about 5 min. she expired. I wasn't happy at all about this but the second one did the same thing but it just went away without a sign of blood or that she was hit. When they don't open, that leaves no hair or blood. I tossed them that night and went back to the muzzy mini mags. Success has been the order of the day now and I shoot for shoulder and get a pass through because of the tips. This was with a Jennings carbon extreme at 80lb. Now I shoot a Horton hunter xs at 200lb so no worry about shoulders I also own 4 treestands but never shot a deer out of one yet. Eye to eye and level shots. I had to track a doe for a cousin last year hit with a mechanical and it deflected from the front shoulder right down to the hind leg on the same side. I think the action of the blade opening in his case caused it to kick. Maybe an expert would think of that and if this can be possible. Walmart sells something close to the muzzy that is titanium and have the blades hollowed out. I have seen these fly and they are no different than field tips. I don't know the name of them though but you will know them in walmart when see. Nothink but muzzys for me. Happy hunting guys

[bigbrother]

After hearing Petey's story while talking to him over the weekend, I ended up taking a deer at a lazer ranged 61 yds with the Hoyt Vtec. I shot him with Easton 2413's with a 3 blade Savora fixed blade broadhead. Nothing much to note other than since purchasing this bow I've been able to go back to fixed blade heads. I shoot 2 3/4" vanes with a 4 deg. offset and my broadheads fly great.

I too shot mechanicals for the past 5 years. I was shooting a Browning Afterburner and could not get a fixed blade head to shoot out of it. Even with 6" vanes with a heavy helical. They would just not shoot. I shot 2 dif. aluminum spines, ACC's, and carbon xpress hunters...none shot worth a hoot. So, I started shooting mechanicals. I shot 2 deer with Rocky revolution heads, neither provided a complete pass thru. (18 and 47 yds) I switched from them when I shot a turkey and it got away from me. I started shooting the Shockwaves and shot 2 deer with them both complete pass thru's. 24 and 26 yds.

Why did I switch back? The turkey incident. It still bothers me that I couldn't find it. Like Petey said: one is enough.

[swilk]

Just a quick question ... what are you going to use if your fixed blade heads have a similar incident?

I havent shot as many deer with a bow and arrow as some (around 50 or so) but I have shot enough to know that sometimes strange things happen. I have seen a 70lb Mathews Switchback pushing a 29" Carbon Express and a fixed 3 blade 100gr Muzzy stopped by a shoulder hit on a Whitetail ... And I have seen a 55lb Bear Whitetail Hunter pushing a 26" 2512 and a cheap NAP mechanical break one shoulder and a rib on a complete pass-through on a whitetail.

Not trying to imply that you should stick with mechanicals or any other piece of equipment ... just saying strange things happen. Personally in my limited experience with mechanical heads (switched 3 years ago) I am happy. I did choose the Rocky Ironhead XP specifically because of its design to eliminate glancing shots.