i'm all confused about blades

[Rustywreck]

Ok, I'm looking for a new knife. Primary use is field dressing deer - I shoot a lot of deer every year.
My preference is a folding knife with a relatively short blade, about 3.5 inches, that isn't too wide (not talking about thickness of the blade, but from the cutting edge to the back edge)
What I want is a blade that will hold an edge, can be sharpened when needed (i'm pretty good at sharpening knives) and not rust.
In searching for a new knife, I am finding so many different types of steel the blades are made of I'm not certain which is best - even see ceramic blades.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[SShepherd]

There are quite a few cutlery specific steels on the market....it doesn't make the job easy.
Many of the new steels have vanaduim added to them, which while increasing durability, makes them more difficult to sharpen--it's a trade off. Alot also has to do with the heat treating process the company uses. One of the new "wonder steels" ( CPMs30v and others) if not heat treated correctly would probably preform the same as the "made in pakistan" knives that sit at your local gas station.
That being said..there are a few commercial knives I would use and not worry about.
Buck knives has a line out of CPM s30v knives that are stamped "Boss" with a flame ...they are made here in the states, and heat treating by a man who has it down to a science--top knotch work. You should buy one of those diamond stones to sharpen them.
Kershaw makes an ok blade--their parent company "Kai" I think, started out making razor blades ( they also make a line of scarey shapr kitchen knives)

I'm a personal fan of ATS34/154CM.

Hope I helped,

Sean Shepherd

[gregarat]

I like CPMs30v, or VG-10 myself.


For the most part each type has its benefits and drawbacks. Usually the harder the steel, the more it holds an edge, but drawbacks will be with it more susceptible to rust (cause of the higher amount of iron), and harder to sharpen.

[jmarriott]

I really like my Benchmade knife.

I still use my remmington big game folding hunter for most of my field dressing. Has a gut hook saw blade and a nice edge small size and a sharpener came with it. It is hard to clean as a bad point.

I myself don't worry about blade steel to much. My granddad's puma whitetail hunter still hold a fine edge 70 years after purchase. i bet it is not ATS34/154CM either.

[SShepherd]

Originally posted by gregarat
I like CPMs30v, or VG-10 myself.


For the most part each type has its benefits and drawbacks. Usually the harder the steel, the more it holds an edge, but drawbacks will be with it more susceptible to rust (cause of the higher amount of iron), and harder to sharpen.

Actually, all steel corrodes, it's the addition of chromium that makes it "stainless". s30v is a chromium rich steel. (14%) and has corrosion resistance greater than 440c and 154cm.
I'm thinking that by you saying "harder the steel" you mean more difficult to sharpen, which is true especially with the addition of vanadium.


lmarriott..I'm not sure what you mean by,"i bet it is not ATS34/154CM either." I was expressing my preference for steel-- trying to answer the origional posters question.

I've herd from people that the older puma knives cut very well, but have gone down in quality of the past 20 years. I'm not sure what steel yours is, but they list haveing a "special D1.4 cutlery steel" which is basically the german equivelent of 440A--with proper heat treating is a fine steel.

[BILLY D.]

i agree with sean on the ats34 knives and the dmt sharpeners.

for a good selection and tech talk go to www.agrussell.com.

[Rustywreck]

i wisht the industry would implement an "idiot scale" for comparing knife blades.
The knife I have been using since losing my Gerber has been this Browning Ice storm. It has a VG-10 blade. It was pretty inexpensive at less than $40.
I just don't know anything about this VG-10 stuff and its ability to retain an edge or how readily it shaprenable it is.
I chose this one mainly because of the size of the blade - it vents a deer very well.
Thank for your help
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/knives/detail.asp?value=013G&cat_id=322&type_id=398 (http://)

[SShepherd]

I agree, unfortunatly it's like every other marketing scheme. I'm surprised there isn't an "extreme steel" yet.

[jmarriott]

sorry that kind sounded a bit harsh. I was just stating that my garndfathers old puma knife holds a fine edge without being the lastest type of steel and that it does not take the newest craze in the industry to hold an edge.

It may not be 70 years old but it is close.

[SShepherd]

Originally posted by jmarriott
sorry that kind sounded a bit harsh. I was just stating that my garndfathers old puma knife holds a fine edge without being the lastest type of steel and that it does not take the newest craze in the industry to hold an edge.

It may not be 70 years old but it is close.

if you read the origional posters criteria for the knife:
What I want is a blade that will hold an edge, can be sharpened when needed (i'm pretty good at sharpening knives) and not rust
That was the question I was trying to help with.
Yes, non stainless steels are very good knives, but again, do not fit into the question at hand.
ATS34/154CM has been in the cutlery industry approx. 30 some odd years.....I would hardly put that in the category of " a new craze"
I find it part of my job as a custom knifemaker, to keep myself somewhat educated on the latest and most up to date info concering the industry. There are alot of very neat things happening in the cutlery steel industry, and it's getting more and more difficult for a consumer to sift through all of the information and come up with an answer.

Feathermax, I hope I helped you somewhat with your question.

Sean Shepherd

[Rustywreck]

All of the posts have helped to at least some degree.
I'm still not certain which blade would be best for me, so I'll stick with the knife I have until I can decide.
Can anyone tell me about the VG-10 blade on my knife? Is it good stuff, or cheap? It does say it was made in japan. Toyota is also made in Japan.

[SShepherd]

Originally posted by Feathermax
All of the posts have helped to at least some degree.
I'm still not certain which blade would be best for me, so I'll stick with the knife I have until I can decide.
Can anyone tell me about the VG-10 blade on my knife? Is it good stuff, or cheap? It does say it was made in japan. Toyota is also made in Japan.


Feathermax:
I hate to say this, but japan has been leading the steel industry for a while now. Crucible steel is making great strides in their R&D department.
VG10 is a very good stainless steel, it's also difficult for custom makers to get and use. VG10 has very good edge holding ability, get a diamond stone and you should be able to get it hair popping sharp.

[SShepherd]

...now, you want something to think about for a while..this material has been around for a number of years...it's the ultimate in anti corrosion properties"

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1723

it's called "Talonite..here's a short cut and paste;

"Talonite® is a Cobalt -Chromium alloy. When it is made the Chromium and Molybdenum combine chemically with the carbon to form Chromium carbide and Molybdenum carbide. The cobalt forms a soft and strong matrix that holds the carbide grains in place. This means that a Rockwell or other hardness tests will test the matrix and give relatively low readings however the hardness and wear resistance is in the carbide particles.

If tool steel stays sharp for 6 - 8 hours then Talonite ® will retain an edge for 12 - 14 days."
"Talonite® is an alloy that is primarily cobalt and chrome with only a very small percent of iron in it. It is not steel "

[GoodOlBoy]

Camillus Dura-Stag® Two-Blade Folding Hunter (#26)

Best durned folding, skinning knife I have ever owned.

Link to Camillus Cutlery!

http://www.camillusknives.com/camillus/foldingpocket_26.shtml#knife

There is also a review of this knife in the Gear and Gadgets forum.

GoodOlBoy

[razmuz]

1. Go to Academy sporting goods store.
2. Buy "BUCK" 110 for $25
3. It will dress out a deer as good as any thing else.
4. The only advantage of high dollar knives is "snob appeal".
5. The Buck is easy to hold inside of deer, very important.
The knives with skinny handles are flat dangerous when
covered with blood.
6. No big deal if you lose the knife.
7. KEEP IN MIND THAT ALL THE NEW KNIFES ARE GOOD FOR IS SPACE TRAVEL.

[SShepherd]

Originally posted by razmuz
1. Go to Academy sporting goods store.
2. Buy "BUCK" 110 for $25
3. It will dress out a deer as good as any thing else.
4. The only advantage of high dollar knives is "snob appeal".
5. The Buck is easy to hold inside of deer, very important.
The knives with skinny handles are flat dangerous when
covered with blood.
6. No big deal if you lose the knife.
7. KEEP IN MIND THAT ALL THE NEW KNIFES ARE GOOD FOR IS SPACE TRAVEL.



Thats 1 opinion

[kphunter]

I love my Buck Vanguard ATS-34. Great for field dressing, skinning, and keeps a good edge.

KP

[Talon]

Hello Feathermax,

This is what my son carries. Extremely functional, it holds a wicked edge, is easy to touch up , fits the hand nicely, is easy to use inside of the animal.

Runs about a $100.00

Myself, I carry one of Clercs large hunters.

http://www.javelinaknives.com/knives_javelina.php#
Click the upper left thumbnail


FWIW

Talon:cool:

[rickjordan]

raz absolutely nailed it- the best knife I've ever seen for gutting deer and I own alot of knives. I still have my Grandfather's 110 and it still is the best knife I own

[Bret Andrysiak]

One word for the best folder in the woods is BOKER!!!!Pricey but worth it also the only one I know of with INTERCHANGABLE blades in a folder.ie guthook straight saw ect.....
Muela' out of spain makes some nice stuff too.
Later

[razmuz]

Years ago the steel in most knives was crap. Then Buck came out with the 110 folder. Folks complained that it was to hard to sharppen. It wasn't, they were just used to the crappy knives. Just like the gun industry most knife knives and calibers kept changing just to sell products. The "GLORY" of the 110 was that it worked, was cheap and could be held on to when inside a slippery carcus. Try to gut a deer with one of those Buck Roger type knives being hyped today. Most of all you don't have to worry about it getting lost. Just hop down to Academy and get another foe 25 bucks. When I see someone in deer camp with a Buck 110 I know I'm dealing with a man, a real man I say.

[longdistanceoperator]

What I want is a blade that will hold an edge, can be sharpened when needed and not rust.

What you really want but you dont know it is the knife that can rust...
but you wont let it...cause you can take care of it, what you are seeking
is a non stainless hi carbon steel blade, they attain a level of sharp that far exceeds stainless blades, they hold the edge longer, and they are simple to sharpen if done correctly. A good hi carbon hunter will clean several elk deer or bear before it needs touching up, if its made properly and heat treated properly... 99% of its abilities are in the heat treat, the steel originally used, and the correct edge angle being put on the blade to begin with. As for rust... not even a consideration nowdays with all the blade oils and stuff out there to prevent it.

[Ol` Joe]

Here`s a chart on various steels used in knife making and their composition. I believe a steel needs ~13% chromium to be concidered stainless. D-2 is right at that point, the AUS steels (4, 6, 8) are just over.

http://www.agrussell.com/Steel_Guide/a/73/

[longdistanceoperator]

Dentretic Steel's edge looks like a sharks mouth under the microscope, and cuts like it too.....

Sorry Im just no fan of STAINLESS....

HI CARBON LIKE 52100 ( THE TRULY MAGIC STEEL ) OR D2

[longdistanceoperator]

Well said razmuz