New Spot

[bigbrother]

Ol spark and I took a ride to "scout" out a new long range hunting spot on saturday. He found it while "jeeping" this summer. My first description would be "picturesque". We can definitely see a LONG way. Shot opportunites should run from about 700yds to about 1500 or 1600yds. There is another hill we can see on to but we didn't have the wilde with us to range it. I'll keep you posted as we try a new area this year. Hopefully there will be a deer on it...it is in PA afterall:rolleyes:

[ol_spark]

Another "neat" feature about this spot is that hip waders and a long rope will not be required during the retrieval process. For any of you that were invovled in that process it was somewhat less than a "hoot". What about it Petey, Mike? :D :D

[petey]

I can take the short 700-800 yard shots with my gun... I'll leave the long ones for your toys. I have yet to see this spot, got any pictures?

Talked to Mike Gallop last week and he's all fired up about it this year. I told him he needs to get that telephoto lens for his camera though and make sure that the batteries are charged in his wireless mic. No sound, doesn't make for a good show you know :D

He's passing through on his way to IL first week of November so I'll be sure to remind him then!! ;)

[petey]

By the way, I thought you'd get a kick out of the "plate".

I think we have some 7RUM, 7mm, 25-06 and 300 Tommy's in there. Can you gues which ones are which?

This was at 500 yards or shy a few yards

[RUMLUVER]

Just curious but if you don't mind me asking how big is that steel plate int hat picture?:eek:

[petey]

I believe it's 12 x 14" and that dot is probably 1.5" maybe? As you can see we had probably a 1 mph left to right crosswind this day :D

[RUMLUVER]

I like that back stop and have been thinking about getting into some longer range practice. What do you use for your rifle set ups are they custom or not and what do you use for optics? Thanks

[petey]

I'll let bigbrother and ol_spark talk their rigs up, but both are custom.

bigbrother's is a 6.5x284 custom barrel on a remmy action, Boyd stock. I believe he shoots a straight 22x Super Sniper scope.

Ol_spark has a 30" Lilja barrel on a ruger #1 Chambered in a 300 Tamahawk (300 RUM Ackley Improved) and also has a 338 Tomahawk on a Remmy action now... 32" Lilja barrel. I know he's got a nice piece of Leupold glass on his.

They can get into the details though, since I'm sure I'd miss out on something.

Mine is a Stock Rem 700 LLS in a 7 RUM. This gun is producing .206" groups at 100 yards with 160 gr Game Kings (the old Style hollow points), shooting 91.5g of Retumbo. I'm not afraid to shoot a ground hog out past 700 with my setup as it's shooting under 3" at 500 yards. I probably wouldn't attempt a shot at a deer out past 800 with it, but I'm sure it can shoot to 1000 with no problems (and did I mention that it was a Stock gun?!?) I just haven't shot it that far yet. But I am confident that I could hit a milk jug out at 800 every time with my current drop chart. I've produced numerous 1 shot kills on groundhogs 600 yards and under this summer with it. Other than some trigger work done by myself, I was lucky to get such a shooter off the shelf. Unfortunately I only have 30 more of those bullets left, so I'll probably be going up to the 175 Match Kings once this box of bullets is spent. I'm sure I won't have any problem getting those to shoot though and the BC puts these Game Kings to shame!

My scope isn't the best glass, but it's affordable. A Custom-shop 8x40x50 (yes I typed that right) Tasco. Target Knobs with side focus and duplex x-hairs and you can pick one up for around $299

Ol_spark has a set of Bigeyes for easy spotting (two spotting scopes together to make one big ol set of binocs)

Here's a short video clip of me shooting a 300 RUM at 500 yards at this plate with a 3.5-14x MilDot scope, drops 2 Mills at 500. I was preparing for an elk trip last year which provided me with a 40 yards shot on a nice bull :rolleyes: . go figure This is a Rem 700 SS stock gun also that'll place 5-6" groups with a mildot at 500...those Remmy's sure shoot

500 Yard Clip (http://huntingallover.com/jpegs/josh/500yard.wmv)

Good luck... this long ranging sure is addictive!

[RUMLUVER]

Thanks for the info on the rifles! It sounds like I'm going the right direction since I own and love to shoot the .338, .300, and 7mm R.U.M.'s. I want to leave my .338 the way it is for right now but that .300 Tomahawk intrests me. Some data on that may prove to be very intresting indeed. It would be nice to see data for that if you could get it or if ol-spark could post it so I could compare it to my current data on my .300 R.U.M. I would end up putting a little more scope on it and would be ready to go the distance it sounds like. Thanks for the clip also it is always nice to see people enjoying firearms the way I do. It sounded like maybe your wife and son were there also. It's great for them to get involved also. Shooting has always been a family afair for me too!:D

[petey]

Now that Ol_spark has that 338 Tommy, he may part with the 300? Not too sure why someone would need two massive long guns like that?? ha ha.... :D

I haven't had the pleasure of shooting hte 338 Tommy yet, but the 300 is fun to shoot

Here's a picture of a groundhog we had just shy of 1000 yards this summer. Ol Tommy only missed him once..very close and he never came back

http://huntingallover.com/jpegs/josh/ghog/992.jpg

[BILLY D.]

hey petey, i could make a comment right now but i won't.

buy the way, superior equipment doesn't make for poor shooting ability.

have a great hunt pardner.

[RUMLUVER]

Petey,
Again nice picture! Do you have any balistic info available on the .300 tommy? Also any idea for location of a reamer for that cartridge? Ya know just in case a guy wants to have his rifle done that way also.





:rolleyes:

[bigbrother]

Ray Romain in Brockport, PA has the reamer. He's built quite a few for longe range hunting and 1000yd benchrest competition. He also has a reamer for the 338 Tomahawk.

I've had a chance to shoot the new 338 Tomahawk. It's pretty sweet. Olspark has a 1lb jewell trigger on it. I believe the barrel is 31 1/2" w/out the kdf brake on it. It recoils about like my 6.5. Pretty comfortable and the targets he's been shooting are impressive. Groups are approaching the low .2's I would say.

Billy, you're correct. Even with a custom gun that is capable of shooting 1/2 moa to 1000yds you have a certain amount of human error. That's why we still shoot within the limits of our equipment while hunting. If you're ever in the area, look us up and you can be the trigger man. We have been known to turn skeptics into long range hunters:D

Mike Gallop of In-Scents fired a first shot kill on a deer last year at 545yds. He had never taken a deer further than about 150yds. The reason was good equipment and a good shooter.

If you can't see the ground hog in Petey's pic...you should have seen the one Olspark was zeroed in on at 1640yds!;)

[RUMLUVER]

I think its time to go out and practice at longer range. I am confident about my abilities to shoot deer and like sized critters out to 500 yards and I know my rifles and loads are up to it. It has just intreiged me to start pushing out a little farther all the time but I need practice a distances at 500 and beyond before I think about shooting at game. bigbrother or ol-spark can either one of you tell me is there any real balistic advantage to these Tomahawks over the standard .300 and .338 R.U.M.'s and if so I'll be looking to rent a reamer! :D Thanks

[bigbrother]

Both of these cases are improved versions on the 300 UltraMag case. The 300tomahawk gains you about a maximum 6 grains more powder. With heavy for caliber bullets (220 or 240g) it offers a little but not much more velocity. Olspark found that the increased velocity was nice but the accuracy started to dissipate. The sweet spot in accuracy was at a velocity obtainable with the standard case. The other consideration is the cost of custom dies, fireforming your brass, etc.

The 338tomahawk looks to be the optimum caliber to case capacity ratio for that big case. He's still burning over 100g of powder every time he pulls the trigger but is getting close to 3200 fps with the 225accubond. He's not at max. load yet. There is an advantage with this over the 338 Ultra mag because the 338 RUM case is shorter than the 300 RUM. The tomahawk is built off of the longer case.

If you're looking at shooting less than 1600 yards I don't know that the modified case will benefit you. (I'm not sure that it does over that yet!) If you looking at shooting at under 700yds, definitely stick with the standard case. I would suggest if you handload to try the 190 Sierra Match King in the 300. You can drive it at a good velocity, accuracy will be excellent, and the b.c. is plenty high. Just make sure you don't shoot them through the shoulders with it, unless you like your deer meat pre-ground:D

The best advice I can give in regards to long range practice is to shoot a lot. Find a range that has benches out to 500yds, farther is better. You need to know what your gun will shoot as far as you want to shoot it. That's why we shoot as many groundhogs in the summer as we can. It's a great learning experience in wind doping, mirage reading, and trigger control. The good thing is that here in western PA we don't have to deal with that in deer season. Our wind has averaged 3.7 mph in all of the readings I've taken for the past 2 years while long range hunting. The other thing you need is a GOOD rangefinder. Most 1000 or 1200 yd models will work to 500 or 600 yds, if you're going to shoot farther, get a Leica 1200 or there new geovid bino's. From experience the geovids are an amazing piece of equipment. But be forewarned that if it's the lease bit foggy, the best of "lazers" don't work. And if conditions aren't perfect, they won't range to 1000yds. After that you need an optical rangefinder such as the Wilde or ones from Barr & STroud. They work no matter what.

[Boyd Heaton]

My 30 inch 300 Rum will push a 210gr Bullet to 3350 and a 240gr bullet to a touch over 3000fps.I sat side by side with DC's 34 inch barreled Tommy pushing a 240 to 3200fps.....His was a little flatter and hit a little harder.But I really don't think any deer or bear or moose or what ever else you shoot is gonna know the difference between the two.A very wise man once said"You will never hear a deer complain about the amount of "clicks" it took to kill it:D

[RUMLUVER]

Thanks guys for all the info and the guns and gear. You realy have my wheels a turnin now. This coming spring sounds like a good time for me to start shooting farhter out there. Thanks again!

[ol_spark]

RUMLUVER
Bigbrother pretty much said what there is to know about the Tomahawks. If you look at the ballistics there isn’t much difference. The main reason I went with them in both cases was that I was rebarreling anyway and wanted something different. That’s about what you get. My 300 Tomahawk shot 240 SMK’s at 3010 fps out of the 30” Lilja. I could go faster but that’s where my accuracy was

http://www.huntingallover.com/wayne/target300tom.jpg

I also shoot 190 SMK’s at 3306fps with good accuracy. Once again I could go faster but the accuracy was not there, so what good is the increased powder capacity. I also have a 300 RUM with a 26” barrel that will shoot 178 gr A-Max’s at 3129. And that’s seems to be a real good load for that gun. You don’t realize any great difference shooting up to about 800 yds. With the criteria that you set, I certainly would stick to the 300 RUM. They are great cartridges and appear to shoot a variety of bullets well. You didn’t say if you shoot hand loads or not, nor did you say what kind of game you were pursuing. In either case the standard RUM’s have more than enough horsepower to get the job done on deer and elk. The modified cases are certainly not necessary but if you like to tinker that’s also an option. Custom barrels typically shoot better and the longer the distance the easier that is to see. But the barrel is only part of the equation; it still takes lots of practice plus good reloading skills. Wind plays a big factor in the long range game and a 30 caliber 190 SMK bullet traveling at 3100fps drifts just as much shot from a 300 RUM as it does from a 300 Tomahawk. Hope this help[s.

[RUMLUVER]

ol-spark Anything more than what I already know always helps! To answer your question I have reloaded for several years. I started when I was old enough to pull the handle on dad's rockchukker press. Now we have an unspoken contest who can come up with the most accurate loads. He has been reloading and shooting for 40+ years already so I'm still catching up to him. But I get the better of him sometimes. Around home we hunt whitetail, coyotes, pronghorn antelope, and muledeer mostly. We do some prairedogging but not as much as we used to. I still apply every year for moose, elk and bighorn sheep in ND but those are once in a lifetime tags that are hard to come by. Thanks again for the info!

[Boyd Heaton]

Just an add on here.....At 3350 my Rum will and has shot sub moa 10 shot groups at 1000 yards ans sub moa 5 shot groups at a mile......17 moa to 1000 with a 100 yard zero.And around 54 moa to a mile:eek:

[Evan03]

Ouuuuuuuuuuch

didnt that hurt you, you went flying back words. i busted up when i heard that and i could see him actiong tuff like it was nothin at all.

i on the other hadnw will not take that kinda punishment atleast not willingly :)

you boys are difrent bread. nothin wrong with that.

one thing i did take note of 200 plus bullets moven at 3400. thats about the same as my 2506 and hot hot 100gr nolser bt loads.

[petey]

Hey there.. Petey is tough as they come for 5 foot nothing and 145 pounds :D

I enjoy when the wife and kids get to come out and entertain me with comments like that. She's not the best spotter since she' flintches from the sound of the gun, but I'm lucky enough that at least she's out there just to be with me.

After every shot, I give the old Tim the ToolMan Taylor..."Rarrra,rarra,rarrrra"

[RUMLUVER]

Petey

I'm glad to see I'm not alone! When I'm shooting with my wife she always says doesn't that hurt when my 6'2" 260lbs is getting moved aroud by my .338. Then next statment is that gun is so loud but I tell her maybe one day she'll understand how much fun it is to shoot it! Then she rolls her eyes at me. Like you said I'm gald she's out there with me!

[bigbrother]

Put very simply it was a bust. First 3 hours of the first day of 2005 deer season, not a single deer sighted and only 6 shots heard! This in an area where we could see 2 mountains covering about 120 degrees around us from 600 to 1800 yards! 1 deer per square mile my a$$.

We cut our losses and headed to the "rock." We had several sightings of does but no bucks on the first day.

[RUMLUVER]

bigbrother,

Sorry to hear that hunting was tough around hear also very low visabilty the whole season. Worked very hard for 4 deer. They wouldn't stay still or bunch up at all. But none the less we got meat in the freezer for another winter.

[bigbrother]

First and Second days here were rough for long ranging. First day was overcast with some fog as the snow we did have was melting off before 10am. The second day it rained pretty much all day. We did manage to see some deer the second day from the rock. This Saturday was all together different. We had about 5" of fresh snow at the rock. It makes it a different world when glassing out to 1100 yards. Olspark, Chris and I watched 7 different deer until we finally shot the first one of the day at 580. Chris made his first long range kill at 549. That was his 3rd deer ever and he made a great shot to drop her where she was standing. Olspark has the pics of the deer, hopefully we'll get them up here. Petey and Jason showed up in time to help us drag them up the mountain...THANKS!:D

[petey]

Yeah I always seem to show up when there's draggin invovled. Thanks for giving me the last 100 yards :D That's always the most fun.

By the way, the video came out pretty good.

I'll proabably make a streaming video for everyone to enjoy.

I'll be going up this week since Saturday is a bust for me. Hard to imagine my weekends are full all the way up into the next year now. And during hunting season to boot!!