A P-38 as a CCW gun?

[Adam Helmer]

I did a swap of surplus gear and and ended up with a P-38 dated "1945" that shoots WW 115 grain Silvertips to point of aim at 25 yards. The gun is a WWII capture arm and shoots very tight groups and it appears new. While I like the Colt M1911, this P-38 has become my CCW gun. Does anyone else have a P-38 as their CCW arm?

Adam

[gregarat]

Why did you decide to carry the P38? If I had a real nice vintage gun like that, I would be afraid of damaging it. If I were to use it as a carry piece. Especaly if it was a tack driver.

[Adam Helmer]

gregarat,

I have a few other earlier dated P-38s, so taking the "1945" with me in the truck seemed like a good idea. I do carry the M1911 now and then and also a M65 S&W.

Adam

[gregarat]

I see now.

I'm thinking of carrying my 1911 when cold weather hits (hopefully Springfield will do a good job fixing it up). A 1911 will be more easy to conceal, pulse a .45 will do a better job of getting good penetration through winter jackets. My other carry is a Rossi snubby. Not quite like your old FBI special. My main carry is a G19 No night sights, just the Harries technique for me.

You do have nice taste in handguns.

[Jack]

I've worked with a few P-38's, but never carried one for CCW.
If I carry a 9, it's likely to be my Browning P-35- also a WW2 pistol.
The P-38 is a really nice design- I believe the first double action service pistol.
The P-38's I've handloaded for have shot rather well, although they sometimes bobbled with HP or soft point ammo.

[gold40]

The P-38 is surely an acceptable CCW weapon.

The design is 67 years old, and there are newer/better variations. Most of our current law enforcement guns were derived from this first double-action 9mm. The newer guns have bigger magazines, better triggers, and a different balance - but are not necessarily any BETTER!

The WWII guns are sought by collectors if in excellent condition, but the average ones with worn finish are just shooters. There are also a bunch of 1960's aluminum-framed variants, usually marked P-1. Its pretty much the same gun, but less pricey.

I would feel well protected with a good P-38.

[Adam Helmer]

gold40,

Good post. I have several P-38s and like the design and handling of the pistol. My few problems with my pistols were isolated to two magazines that I tossed out. My P-38s like an assortment of loads I tried out on the backyard bench.

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I can think of a couple of reasons why a P-38 would not be a desirable carry gun. A.) the front sight and hammer are such that they could concievably snag on clothing during a draw. B) the magazine requires two hands to remove by the nature of its design. One would have to lower the pistol and fiddle with it in order to replace a mag. Other than that, have at it...........

[Adam Helmer]

Mr. 16 gauge,

Points well taken about the P-38. I do not carry a P-38 in a trench coat or jacket pocket, so I do not have a problem with snagging. My Colt M1911 also requires two hands to change magazines: strong hand holds the Colt while strong thumb presses the mag catch and weak hand feeds in the new mag. I do the P-38 by holding the grip in my strong hand and pressing the mag catch with the weak hand thumb and inserting the new mag. I hope I keep my "fiddling" to a minimum and after 8 rounds of Silvertips, I may not need the second mag. LOL.

Adam

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Adam;
I usually carry concealed under a large T-shirt or Sweatshirt, and even the standard hammer on a 1911 snags from time to time. I would also imagine that finding a good holster for concealed carry with a P-38 might be a bit of a problem as well, unless one was willing to go with a custom holster maker or use one of the many "one-size-fits-all" type of holsters on the market (which usually don't fit anything very well;) )
As far as reloading the magazine well of a P-38 while keeping the sights on the target, your a better man than me....you'll have to show me that trick some day.:)
As far as the silvertips go, my P-38 fed those without a hiccup as well, and several other HPs to boot.....the only ones I remember it having trouble with were some 100 grain S&W HPs that I bought at a gun show (shows you how old I am!)....I think the bullets were loaded too short for this particular gun.
Take care...........

[gold40]

In my opinion, the business about a civilian CCW replacing magazines in a gunfight is way overdone and unrealistic.

Most CCW shootings involve 1 or 2 shots; supposedly the average is 2.1 shots, including LEO's.

It hard to imagine using nine 9mm slugs, and then needing more. I haven't been able to find a single published incident of a CCW holder running out of ammo in a real confrontation. There was one Texas situation where the bad guy had a Kevlar vest, but more ammo wouldn't have made a difference.

For most of us civilians, a P-38 would be just fine!

[Lycanthrope]

If you shoot it well, carry it. Your comfort level with the weapon will matter more than any possibility of snagging on clothing.

The 9mm actually penetrates better than a .45 through winter clothing due to smaller frontal area.

[Adam Helmer]

Lycanthrope,

All savvy agents put a few "Ball" rounds on top of the 15-round stack in the magazine for "guaranteed" penetration of winter clothes, doors and other obstacles on the way to get the Bad Guys.

Adam

[Lycanthrope]

Savvy? Who is to say what round you need first?

[Adam Helmer]

Lycanthrope,

If one applies the "Double Tap" properly, one will give the bad guy one of each round: a JHP round and a Ball round. I always carried a magazline loaded alternately Ball and JHP and figued the bad guy can keep "score." Savvy?

Adam

[Lycanthrope]

Alternating makes sense if they are the same weight bullets. I just didn't see the rational of ball rounds "on top".

With multiple aggressors, however, you may have to give everyone behind hard cover 2 if you can't remember exactly where in rotation you currently were. I'll stick with 230gr Hydra Shoks. Any hot, heavy hollow point should do the job.

[Adam Helmer]

Lycanthrope,

Are you a LEO or a retired LEO? I should have said "Alternately loaded Ball and JHP" and not "on top" of the mag and I am sorry for the confusion. As for the "Double Tap", that is because many bad guys wear body armor. We always planned on 2 rounds per BG, minimum, and did not have to worry about "the rotation," it all works out in the end.

As for different bullet weights, at handgun distances it really does not matter, just go for center mass. We also had the "Triple Tap" which was two on the sternum, one in the head. That came out of the LA bank robbery scenario where the bad guys had full body armor. Far too many civillians carrying CCW think ONE round is all they need, "Just like on TV." In reality, go for double or triple taps and then look for the next BG. With a magazine full of ammo, just keep fire discipline and keep alert. One-shot stops are few and far between. Hope this helps.

Adam

[Lycanthrope]

Let's just say I don't go for the "double tap" and prefer the "controlled pairs".

If they are wearing body armor the ball ammo won't make a difference. Better practice the Mozambique drills.

[Adam Helmer]

Lycanthrope,

People using "Double Taps" are called survivors. Two on the sternum takes a lot of fight out of people wearing body armor and not all body armor will stop ball; some vests are better than others. A few quick "Taps" causes blunt trauma and gives you time to go to the next stage. If the BG still shows fight, do a "Triple Tap."

What is a "Mozambique Drill?" What American police department teaches this, I never heard of such a thing, and never needed it, I suppose, during 26 years on the street. Be well, and consider double taps when you are in a hot corner.

Adam

[Lycanthrope]

"Double Taps" are generally 2 shots with one sight picture. Controlled pairs are two shots with 2 quick sight pictures. I'm a firm believer that anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice for good measure

The "Mozambique" is a failure to stop or body armor drill. Two to the chest and one to the head. A much better skill to learn than to guess if they have a trauma plate or not. A plate will stop ALL pistol ball ammo.

[Adam Helmer]

Lycanthrope,

Ok, I see that your,"Mozambique Drill" is just another term for our "Triple Tap." We have other "Drills" I will not address here.

If you never had two on a trauma plate, you need to FEEL how "harmless" that is. LOL. Did you ever get shot twice in the chest? If so, we are on the "same page." If not, then I understand your posts. Be well.

Adam

[Lycanthrope]

Oh...I don;t thik I use the quote "harmless"....and I'll strongly avoid any hit to the chest thank you, very much.

[Mickey Rat]

Dude,

Bravo on your ccw choice. you got style. 9mm is 9mm, no need to apoligize for your choice. If the fight is still on at magazine going dry, you should be hoofing it out anyway. Draw, shoot & scoot!