OLN- "Dangerous Game"

[OneShotBandit]

WOW! Did any of you guys see last Thursdays episode? They were Elephant hunting (I forgot where)! This hunter with what looks like a .500 dbl rifle shoots the bull while down on his haunches! They were sneaking from behind and all of a sudden the bull turns and starts coming- not faking! The hunter (shots first) & PH both shoot and you could see the dust off the bulls head! Do I sound a bit excited? It was just freakin' increadible! It looked nice maybe a 70 pounder?

Virgil:cool:

[fabsroman]

I saw it and they were hunting in Zimbabwe in a park that got most of its elephants from portions of Africa where the elephants had been heavily hunted by poachers. Because of the heavy hunting by poachers, these elephants in the Zimbabwe park were not keen towards humans (i.e., they did not like humans).

Both guys that took the initial shots on the elephant were professional hunters, it just so happened that one of them was able to afford the cost of the tag, all of which went back into managing the elephant herd according to the show. Further, the taking of the old bull was for management reasons (i.e., the herd was getting too big).

The first two shots were made while the professional hunters were standing up and while the elephant was charging full force (i.e., with no intent of stopping). One shot was fired from each professional hunter and both of them missed the brain. Several follow up shots were made to anchor and kill the animal.

What kills me is all the hype beforehand about having to hit the elephant in the brain to stop a full force charge or the hunter could die. Seems as though striking the elephant anywhere in the head is enough to stun him and allow for plenty of follow up shots. I don't think that elephant got off the ground once after the first shot was fired. I also didn't like the fact that everybody was firing on this elephant. Yeah, the hunter got the first shot in there, but what makes him think it is his trophy since it took about 4 guns to kill this elephant. If he wanted the trophy, he should have done all the shooting on his own. Then again, I am sure the rest of the group didn't want to die right then if he happened to miss.

As far as killing elephants is concerned, I take it that they are no longer endagered species. I could be wrong about this. Personally, I probably would never kill an elephant, just like I have no desire to kill a big cat, a wolf, or a giraffe. What I didn't like seeing at the end was the hunters carrying the ivory over their shoulders as a trophy. The ivory is the entire reason that the elephants experienced extreme poaching. Do we have to be reminded of this?

[fishnfrank]

Hey fabsroman, I agree with you totally. I myself would never shoot one, but I did read a very good article on elephant hunting in sports afield. The title was called what to do with 10,000 pounds of meat. This hunt takes place in Zambia. They outlawed elephant hunting years ago because of the drop in numbers. Now that they have brought their herd numbers back up, they are giving out just a few tags each year. The great thing is, when an elephant is killed, people come from miles around, many villages show up and help dress out the animal. No parts go unused and nobody can go home until the job is totally done. I agree, the tuscs are the only thing they propably care about, but atleast the animal doesn't go to waste. I also thought it was interesting that the organs such as the liver and the heart were really special and everyone wanted them. I don't remember what the guy was using but I think he only shot once, because they all took off after the shot for fear of the others charging. I do remember it was big, one tusk weighed 60 lbs. and the other 57lbs.

[OneShotBandit]

I on the otherhand have always dreamed of shooting the "Holy Grail" of big game! The show did not offend me one bit! If I ever could get the funds (hit the lottery) I want to go on a 30 day safari for the Big 5 (maybe replace the rhino with a Hippo). I think the tusks would be a GREAT trophy as I'm not a meat hunter! Give the meat to the natives, give me the tusks, though I'm not sure they can be imported to the U.S. I shock my hunting buddies from Chicago (liberal hunters, what an oxymoron) when I stated about shooting an elephant! :D

Virg:cool:

[fabsroman]

That is hilarious OneShotBandit. "Liberal Hunters"

Let me throw this out there. There are two extremes of sportsmen. Those who actually care about the environment, and those that only care about themselves. I have hunted with guys that kill over a 100 ducks in a day, well over the limit, and they don't even eat them. They do the same thing with geese and throw them in the dumpster. They throw their trash in the bay while we are fishing. They spend tons of time and money in the pursuit of the biggest whitetail of the year so that they can prove that they are the best hunter.

Then there is the opposite side. Hunters that go out there just to hunt. To experience the hunt with their buddies, dogs included. Essentially, to have a great time. If they kill a big buck, they are not sending pics of it via telephone. They are not calling every relative they have. They are content with shooting nothing the entire day or leaving with a limit.

Let me ask you this question. Why is an elephant hunt such a trophy hunt if it requires you to win the lottery, or mortgage the house, to do it?

I have killed two decent size bucks. To most, they are big. To those mentioned in the first paragraph, they merely have antlers. I have killed tons of waterfowl and limit upon limit of doves. The two bucks are great memories of mine, but that is because there are two great stories behind them. The limits of birds really don't provide too many great memories for me, then again, there are some limits that do (i.e., the guys that treated my dad and I like 2nd rate citizens and did not let us hunt in with them only to watch us limit out on geese before they even killed one in the field next to us). Some of my great memories are the following:

1. Wounding a goose 2 years ago just to watch my 7 month old lab run over a hill and emerge a couple of minutes later with the bird. It was well over a 200 yard retrieve and I thought I was going to have to chase the bird and dog all day. My dog was so proud he was shaking his tail the entire way back and I was extremely excited. That was the only bird we killed that afternoon because they were flaring (i.e., we left something out in plane sight that we didn't see until we left). I consider that to be a great hunt.

2. Earlier in that year, I went hunting with the 4 1/2 month old puppy and my dad again. I crushed two mallards that peeled off a group of 5 and came through the trees. The puppy retrieved both. That was all the action for that day, but it was a success.

I can go on and on about this, but trophies are what you make them to be. What is funny is that people that care so much about what is hanging on the wall miss a lot of what hunting is about.

If somebody wins the lottery and goes on that "dream" elephant hunt, does that make them a better hunter than the guy next door? How about a better person? Does the hunter that pulls the trigger on a bald eagle become a better hunter than the guy that doesn't? Is the guy that has permission to hunt the best property in the state a better hunter than the less fortunate guy that has to hunt public property?

At the end of the day, I can understand elephant hunting if the population is too great AND they cannot feasibly be relocated to an area that is lacking native elephants. Then, I am all for it, but I still think the "trophy" status of the ivory should be diminished. The "trophy" status of the ivory is what almost ensured that you would never have the opportunity to hunt an elephant regardless of whether or not you won the lottery. Kind of like the guys that shoot over the limit on Cans (i.e., ensuring that Canvasbacks become extinct) or those polluting the waterways to ensure that there are no fish for the next generation. Why is it that most men and women have to have what is not plentiful.

I could go on and on about this. Shark fin soup is another example.

[pomoxis]

One thing that many of you are missing is that a trophy fee for an elephant supports the governments anti poaching patrols, the employment of the safari staff from the local village and the free meat puts the highest value of the land as habitat for wildlife. In Zimbabwe the trophy fee for a cape buffalo bull will support a school for an entire year. The only thing left in the field from my cape buffalo was the lower intestine, lungs and lower jaw. Every thing was packed out 1.5 miles to the nearest road.

Here is another thing to consider is the tusk less elephant hunt. Since there had been over a century of taking elephants with ivory the population of tusk less animals in some areas has risen over time. Tusk less elephants need to steal food or raid the villagers crops and are often more aggressive. When ever there is a conflict between wildlife and people the wildlife loses.

Before I went to Zimbabwe I did not think I would ever want to hunt elephants. After a couple of encounters and realizing that even at 35 yards away it is hard to see an elephant hunting the elephants would be a challenge.

There was an outdoor writer when ask if given a choice of what to hunt he normally responds anything in season. He then went on to explain even to other hunters it is hard to describe the lure of hunting elephants. I did not understand what he meant until I went to Africa.

[fabsroman]

I'll agree that it is fine to hunt anything that is in season. However, I also think a line needs to be drawn between the lure of the license fee and the population of the game. I completely understand that the fee for killing that elephant was used to further help the elephants and other game in the park. I thought I stated that in the first post. They just need to be careful about how many licenses they give out just because they need food or new schools.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I would hate to see what happened in North America to the Buffalo happen in Africa.

I also understand that all the meat from the animal was used.

Are rhino's still endangered? Just wondering because there was a comment above that one would be included in the great 5 hunt.

Who knows, maybe if I were in Africa and got to see everything first hand, I might be pulling the trigger on an elephant. I highly doubt it, but who knows. Granted, I wouldn't hesitate if it were charging.

Another question. If there are so many tuskless elephants and they are causing trouble, why don't they hunt these?

Finally, I also understand that whenever there is a conflict between wildlife and people, the wildlife always loses.

[pomoxis]

Some contries like Zimbabwe has tuskless elephant hunts that can be set up through the safari companies. The cost of the elephant hunt is about the same as a buffalo hunt. Other countries like Tanzania the government is the only ones to control problem animals.

Having a bull elephant close from 35 yards down to 20 will change your perspective on life. I was a little more frightend when we came across a herd of 4 elephants that also had a calf at 30 yards.

The White rhino in South Africa have stable populations and a few are hunted. In most other coutries they are not doing very well

[OneShotBandit]

fabsroman, in the above comment I stated that I would replace the Rhino (white or black) w/killing a bull Hippo. To your reply as why shooting an Elephant to me is not a bad thing: I've always dreamed of going to Africa. The stories of real men (Ruark, Bell, Roosevelt & Capstick) going on tent safaris were dreams to me. I swore if that if I had the money I, too would go on( to me) one of these most ultimate hunts. You may not see the need to kill an Elephant, but IMHO I don't see the danger of shooting "Bambi" other then Trophy & meat (same thing isn't it)! I know duckhunting isn't dangerous, either (other then maybe drowning). I'm a waterfowl hunter by the way. I hardly shoot a limit and yes I agree that just being out is great. I lost a brother several years ago of a heart attack (he was 46) and I love to get out to the blind smoke a Montecristo, drink expresso and think of him as the sun rises. BUT I have shot several "Trophy (to me)" ducks- all drakes: Can, Pintail, Black & GW Teal. I didn't get them mounted though, I wished I had! You know this subject can go along the lines of Gun Control ie: good guns vs. bad guns, etc. Yes I own several Assault.... oops I mean semi auto military look-a-like guns. I'm also a memeber in good standings in the NRA. I guess the only thing we agree is that we disagree on BIG/Dangerous game hunting.;) By the way I forgot that w/the Tusks I would also also have the Elephant's feet made into wastepaper baskets... see nothing wasted! :D

Virgil

[fabsroman]

OneShotBandit,

Fair enough reply. Like you, I too would love to hunt Africa if I had the funds.

We might disagree about killing an elephant, but my disagreement is only with them not being in plentiful supply. If they were as abundant as the zebra, I might even shoot one. As far as dangerous game hunts are concerned, they don't seem that dangerous when the elephant goes right down from the first shot to the head. Granted, a group of elephants charging would be an entirely different ball game.

At the end of the day, something tells me that you and I have some of the same views about this. I was just wondering why people would want to shoot an elephant if they aren't abundant.

As far as mounting waterfowl is concerned, I have shot my fair share of mallard and gw teal drakes and didn't mount a single one. The one duck I did get mounted was a cross between a domestic duck and a mallard. That duck was huge and it had some awesome purple to it. The only duck I regret not mounting was the mallard drake I shot with two leg bands on it, one being a $100 reward band.

[Hawkeye6]

This has been kind of an intersting read.

Seems to me that a lot of it can be summed up as personal prefence. I'm kind of on board with Fabs as far as elephants go largely becaus I don;t know what I'd do if I bagged one. I guess if it was part of a herd reduction or to cull out one that's raidinga village....

I often apply the same reaosning to huning Stateside. I have little if any deisre to hunt bear, probably because they seem too much like dogs to me. But I'd be very interesed in in hog hunt sometime. Hogs seem to be a bit more of a dangerous animal to me, at least as far as North America goes.

If I went on a safari, I'm not sure what Id want to hunt. Maybe a Cape Buffalo?

H.

[pomoxis]

Hunting in Africa is an addiction and you are really hooked if you hunt dangerous game. I was so pumped up with adrenalin while hunting Cape buffalo that it was a full 24 hours after my buffalo was down before I reacted to the tsetse fly bites. I know some of the bites were over 5 days old. On the drive from the buffalo area to the plains game area I could watch the welts just start to rise as I relaxed.

Zebra surprised me on how skittish they were and they would stop in the shadow of the brush and the stripes made it difficult picking up the vital triangle to place the shot. It is not like going out to a pasture and shooting a pony.

The other thing that surprised me was how well a elephant can hide 35 yards away from you. With all the brush getting into position to place the 1 shot kill is often down to 15 to 20 yards. If you don't do it right the first time the reaction time of an elephant or you have more than 1 elephant could make things real interesting.

[Skyline]

The other interesting thing about this thread is how strong opinions and convictions can be from people even when they obviously don't know very much about the subject in the first place.

I very much subscribe to the a statement made by a very wise man who said, " everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it had better be a learned one."

I find it very disturbing that people doing one form of hunting or another have to spend a great deal of time defending themselves to other hunters. Perhaps if people took the time to read and learn a bit about things before they spouted off about it we, as hunters, wouldn't be in the predicament we are in......world wide.

Hunters condemn other hunters all the time........bow hunters snub rifle hunters, traditional blackpowder enthusiasts snub in-line users, and the all time favorite.......meat hunters turn thumbs down on the dreaded 'trophy' hunter.

I for one would love to go on an elephant hunt for a big bull......and I would proudly display his tusks in my trophy room, but I too lack the funds. I have been lucky enough to hunt Africa and a lot of other places. It has taken a lot of effort and passing on other things that I deemed less important. To the elephant hunter, the tusks from the elephant are the same as the antlers from the whitetaiil hunter.

Remember endangered only applies to the specific area you are talking about..........some countries do not have a lot of elephants and perhaps they have had poaching problems. Others have more than enough elephants and need to keep their numbers in check with the available habitat. It's that simple and people spouting off about things they do not know anything about are often the ones that sway public sentiment and cause problems for countries that have legitimate wildlife management plans in place.

Their plans to attract foreign hunters and the much needed money it brings into the local economies are thwarted by the well intentioned but misinformed. In the end the losers are the local wildlife and the indigenous people.

[BILLY D.]

kelly

welcome to the forum. your explanations are valid ones. see ya back at the nest.

theres good folks on this forum also.

[fabsroman]

Holy Cow, I hope we aren't saying that I'm a bad person for my posts above. LOL

I completely understand that the elephants were getting a little over populated where this hunt went on. However, a lot of them had been relocated to this place from heavily poached areas. So, why can't they be relocated to an area that is lacking elephants that used to have elephants before they were poached?

If the answer is that the cost would be too much, that is fine. If the answer is that there are enough elephants in the world and they are no longer endangered, that answer would be even better.

At the end of the day, I think you will find that I do try and find out most of the answers to things and don't just form an opinion on a whim.

Regarding hunting seasons and such, I am sure that there are many influences on whether hunting a certain species is allowed as there are plenty of influences on hunting season lengths and bag limits. I know the DNR here in Maryland gets pressure from auto insurance companies to thin out the deer herd because they cause way to many auto accidents. I know they get pressure from the hunters and guides on the Eastern Shore to increase the limit on migratory geese. Then again, maybe that is with the feds. In Africa, there is probably some influence by money.

If I didn't have a lot to get done tonight before taking a week long "vacation" in Florida visiting the in-laws, I would do some research to see if elephants are still on the endangered species list.

[Skyline]

fabsroman

Trophy hunting of elephants is monitored very closely. Trade in wildlife is monitored by the CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species....) and they list the species in three appendices.......Appendix I, II and III. Look at I as being the most serious and III the least.

Just because an animal is listed doesn't actually mean that hunting should not be allowed. Some animals are listed because a particular species in a particular country is in trouble so all similar types are listed as well.

As an example......the African elephant. African elephants are listed in Appendix I....EXCEPT elephants in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia and Botswana, they are in Appendix II. Now to keep this in perspective you should know that ALL bears are listed in Appendix II and all wolves are in Appendix II except for a few Asian countries where they are listed in Appendix I.

Now I have wolves and black bears on my ranch all the time and I think most hunters would agree that the black bear is anything but endangered in North America.........but they are listed to help with the monitoring of trade in bear parts from places like Asia and South America (sloth bear, spectacled bear etc.).

So, bottom line is that just because an animal is listed with CITES doesn't mean they are endangered everywhere.........

Now you are from the US............so the next thing that enters the elephant mess is the USFWS. They set importation quotas for legally taken sport trophies, including elephant. Although CITES factors into it.....the USFWS allows trophies to be imported from countries where the elephant is listed on Appendix II, but they also allow trophies from some countries where the elephants are listed on Appendix I as well. Examples would be Tanzania, Cameroon, Mozambique and Ethiopia. NOTE: the import permits are only for legally taken sport hunting trophies......not carved trinkets and bobbles.

Your USFWS studied the situation in each country.......animal populations, management programs, whether the taking of sport trophies would be beneficial to the overall picture and then either set an allowable quota for importation or turn the country down.

In a cash starved environment, such as is the situation in many African countries, the animals need to pay their own way and trophy hunting is a major source of funding for the game departments. Safari hunting also supplies cash and meat to rural people.

Not everything is as simple as watching a fund raising program from the World Wildlife Fund or Walt Disney. I say again......endangered is only relevant on a site specific basis.

Wolves may be endangered in Idaho, but they are hammering the heck out of the moose and caribou up north. Elephants may be endangered in the Sudan, but they certainly are not in Zimbabwe.

As I type this Zambia is negotiating with the US to allow importation of legally taken elephant. They need the cash that the harvesting of a few trophy bulls will generate to help fund their elephant management strategy. Elephant hunting has been closed in Zambia for a number of years.

I'm with OneShotBandit.........when I win the lottery the first thing I will do is book an elephant hunt. As pomoxis said, once you have been there and experienced what it is like in the African bush you would soon change your mind. I too have seen how difficult it can be to see an elephant in the thornbush, even at 30 yards. You need to look at the BIG picture........ :)

[fabsroman]

Trust me, I am trying to look at the BIG picture or I wouldn't even be posting about this. Two things that I don't have are money and a closed mind, that is a closed mind and money. I post about things sometimes because I want to know more about them.

With that said, sometimes animals can be exploited for money, as I posted earlier. This is a catch 22. Kind of like why Africans eat seed that is sent to them instead of planting it. If they don't eat it, there will be nobody left to plant anything. I am just trying to understand how killing elephants instead of relocating them is beneficial for elephants in general. Now, I am not talking about relocating them to areas that did not have native elephants, but to areas that used to have native elephants or areas that have an endangered population of elephants.

As far as hunting them goes, I don't think it would be easy in the least bit. I don't think hunting any wild animal would be easy, especially when they are not used to human contact. With that said, some of the whitetails around here will stand around and look at me while I am walking through the woods with a gun in my hand.

Eventually, I might make it to Africa and I am actually looking forward to that hunt. I know Buffalo will be on the list of animals that I want to take, along with Kudu, but that is because I see herds of them running around in the videos, and I mean herds. I have seen some buffalo herds in the 100's. Those don't look endangered to me. What I haven't seen is tons of elephants. Now, by the time I can afford to get over there, I plan on doing some research into the whole elephant issue and making an informed decision then.

Addressing the bear issue, I understand what you are getting at completely. Maryland had a very small bear population until recently and they had the first bear hunt last year because they are starting to get out of control. Some PETA people tried to put a stop to the bear hunt, but the Courts would not allow it. In the end, if it is legal, I guess I just have to trust the game management people's opinion and hope that they are not destroying an animal's future to bring in money. Just not a good long term solution.

[Skyline]

fabsroman,

Do yourself a favor and go to Africa. I have hunted cape buffalo a few times and I can tell you that if I had the cash I would go every year. It is fun.......a lot of fun. It is visceral!

You will also enjoy hunting for Kudu.

As for relocating elephants.........................it is a great idea, but you have no idea how costly it is. It is a tough go on a local basis never mind relocating between countries. Not practical my friend. I am not saying that it isn't a good idea in a perfect world, but no game department could afford to do it on a big scale.

They do it regularly in South Africa......that is move a few elephant from Kruger or another park to a new game park location that needs to start a resident herd. But on a large scale, which is what we are talking about.......100's or 1000's of elephants.......no way.

You need semi sized transport trucks with special containers to house the animals during transport. Big winches, vets, helicopters, darting crew and many grunts.

Locally near home.......the national park was darting and collaring some elk for a study......costs ended up being $5000 per animal.

Even in Africa, where local labor is not pricey, by the time you factor in equipment, etc it costs many thousands per elephant to relocate on a small scale. Between countries where transport could be thousands of miles.......it ain't gonna happen. Millions of dollars would be involved and they do not have it in the first place. Better to let hunters drop a few trophy bulls at about $30,000 or so and sell a few non-trophy hunts for $12,000 to get the funds to manage the existing herd.

Africa is no different than here....developing yes, but the same problems. You can't have elephants in a lot of areas as they do what they want....travel....eat farmers crops etc. In some cases it is about as fanciful as it is to think we could still have the bison/buffalo.

Not going to happen! Thousands/millions of bison moving around doing what bison do would not allow for farms to exist would it. Like it or not, for the west to settle and the bread basket exist, the bison had to go.

I would be all for the US and Canada buying up thousands of farmers and turning the great plains back into a bison habitat.....but lets face it, that isn't going to happen.

In some parts of Africa the same problem exists with their wildlife and the growing human population. Elephant are big creatures and they need space......each country only has so much land that can be considered elephant territory. It is fair to say that some of those countries have no room for natural, free roaming elephant herds, any more than Kansas has room for a few hundred thousand bison to roam around.

In most areas bison are in fenced....finite....enclosures and they have to be culled to keep the herd in check with their surroundings. There are few true free range bison left in North America. Think about it....in the US, a small herd here or there in Arizona, around Yellowstone (they still hit fences when they leave the park), the herd in the Dakotas (a park and they still have to be culled), and Alaska (transplanted herds).

In Canada we have free ranging herds.....wood bison in the Northwest Territories, Wood Buffalo National Park in the NWT and Alberta, free ranging bison in northeastern British Columbia...free ranging but introduced. All areas with very few people.

That same requirement excists in Africa for free ranging elephant herds.........as the population grows and development takes place, suitable elephant areas decrease. Sad but true.

If you look at the big picture you will find that the illegal ivory trade and the ivory poaching all stemmed from a huge demand in the Asian market.....same as rhino horn, bear gall bladders, tiger parts, deer antler, snakes.........I could go on. Elephant were never endangered because a Yank or a Canuck wanted to have a set of 70 pount ivory teeth standing in their trophy room.

The world as a whole has actually done a good job of stemming the ivory trade. Pianos do not have ivory keys anymore and the demand for ivory knickknacks has subsided.....at least outside of the Orient.

As for the bears in Maryland........you can only have so many bears in a given area, especially when you have millions of people. If you have too many bears, shooting a few is the answer. Keep the population within a certain level and they will always have enough room to roam and enough to eat. When the population grows beyond the available habitat problems occur.

I hope you aren't thinking they should relocate them! We already have enough thanks! :D

[fabsroman]

Well put Skyline. I know the PETA people were talking about transplanting and/or sterilizing whitetails around here to keep the herd size down, but the cost was insane. Hence, hunting is the answer. Same goes for the bear, and now I sort of understand how it goes for elephants. My entire thought process dealt with whether or not elephants were still endangered. For instance, I believe the white rhino is terribly endangered, so allowing hunting of them on any basis would probably be insane. I just don't know how many elephants are around in Africa. If there are thousands, I would probably be okay with the hunting of them. If there are hundreds, I think I would be rather mixed on the hunting of them. And if there were less than 100, I would definitely be against it.

[Skyline]

Well here are a few numbers for you to consider.

African elephant - current population estimates are between 400,000 and 600,000. Zimbabwe alone has about 85,000 elephants.

White rhino - there are two types, the north white rhino and the southern. The northern white rhino is in serious trouble......but the southern white rhino is doing fine. There are close to 11,000 white rhino in South Africa. They allow the harvest of a few old bulls each year, these are surplus animals in reality, ......USFWS has a quota for importation of sport trophies from South Africa. Many are re-introduced to game parks in new/old territory every year as well.

Black rhino - yes these boys are still in trouble, but there are breeding herds in South Africa and the populations are increasing in Kenya and Namibia as well. Namibia's black rhino population is around 1200.

[fabsroman]

Okay, thanks for the research. I haven't had the computer time to do it here at the in-laws in Florida. I barely have enough time to get on-line and check out huntchat.

If elephants are in the 400,000 to 600,000 range, I would agree that hunting them to a certain degree is fine. Sounds like they have the rhino hunting pegged pretty well too. I guess they might actually know what they are doing over there in Africa.

Again, thanks for the numbers. Now, I too can justify the taking of elephants to PETA activists and others.

[OneShotBandit]

I leave here for awhile and look what happens!:D I'm glad that this post has been kept civilizied. Thanks for your input, Skyline and thanks for you replies, Fab! I hope you all had a great Holiday season and a great start for the new year. I always dreamed of going to the Dark Continent w/my brother for a Cape Buffalo hunt, leaving the PH behind with just Ben & I going at a 42" M'bogo! Hahahaha! Take care, gentlemen!

Virgil

[PigPig]

elephants are not endangered animal. Not everywhere.
In some areas, they are over populated...if you know how much they ate everyday or the damage they can do to the habitat...a herd of elephants need to migrate quite often since they can turn green land into desert quite fast.
Relocating those 10 tons plus animals to hundreds miles away to turn agicultural area into desert or made money from rich safari hunters overseas, not a tought choice for those poor Africa governments who need money to MANAGE their natural resources just as our MNR...

Anyway, no meat will be waste...
The locals like the meat and their farmland will be safe too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/saltpeter/butcheringElephant.jpg

Oh! btw, go check outdoorlife feb/2006 issue page 15.
Elephants Are Endangerous?