case sizes and amount of powder to push a 30 at 3800

[Evan03]

im cimpletly intrigued now due to reading a post in another thread.

what cases can push 30grs bullets to a moderate 35-3800 shouldnt take much powder and could be a smallish case.

might make a great light weight varmit rig in something other than savage rifle.

Evan

[Rocky Raab]

Almost any of the 17's will do it, although 30 grains is at the top of their weight slot. Then there are the 19s and 20s. All of them will do almost that fast with 40 grainers, so 30s should be easy.

When you get to .22-cal, the problem is that a 30 grain bullet is much too short and stubby to hold velocity. But 3800 fps is not out of reach with a sleek 40 grainer.

The 20-cal round I'm testing now spits a 40 at 4100+ with less than 35 grains of powder.

[Evan03]

ive got two 224 cals so i think ive got the 40gr bullets coverd.

what i think your telling me is i need to jump to a 17 to use a longer bullet. i dont the the 20cal makn a hole lot of difrince in bullet length

a 17 pushn 30s at 3200 think of the recoil reduced sound reduced muzzle blast. think of the rifle they come in, a remington light varmiter, i dont think you could get a better package.

hmmmmmmmm.

now that i think about id rather have 224 cal do the 3200-3500 stuff. why not push 50 or 55s that fast and not have to all the extra bullets and powder cluttering up my reloading bench.

i think i just did a 180 there.

thanks
Evan

lol
that little bit of enthusiasm for light moderate speed bullets didnt last long i can do what i want to with either a 22/250 or 220 without getting a hole nother rifle chamberd in another varmit caliber.
id rather spend my time and money playing with 6mm i can use everywhere.

[skb2706]

.204 Ruger does this with ease.
32 gr. Hornady Vmax
29.0 gr. RL-15
BR-4 primer

4100 fps .......all day

If all ya wanted was 3800 back it off a few grains.

My .221 will probably make the critieria although most .224" bullets at 30 gr. have pretty crappy BCs. Thus they tend to fly like a single bed mattress.

[Evan03]

ive changed my criteria alittle. why have a caliber pushn a 30 at 3800 when youve got to cals doing it with ease useing 55gr bullets. and spankn the 204 pushn 45s and 40s. and 50s not quite breakn in to the 32gr vmax speeds

im thinkn it would be cool to slow 55s down to 3000-3500 load up some loads figure out in the velocity range what load is most acurate and go with it.

i think anything smaller than 224 just wasnt meant for me. for me the 20cals just arent near as versitile. and if i want ill shot 40-45gr bullets at or beyond 204 speeds with alittle better wind drift fighting capabilities.

yeah at the exspence of burning alittle more powder and possibly not quite as long of barrel life.

Evan

ps

ive tried the 204 had one for maybe 6 months maybe alittle longer. didnt impress me as much as the 22/250 that was sitn alongside it in my closet

[Rocky Raab]

EVAN!!!

(Rocky grabs his shirt collar and slaps him gently a few times)

WAKE UP!!! YOU'RE DREAMING!!!

Buddy, you're describing almost everything from a Hornet to a Swift! Not only that, but you're re-inventing the wheel. You could average all that out and end up with the description of a .223!

Oh, by the way...That'd STILL be a darn near perfect choice for everything you do!

[Evan03]

doing alittle comparison here. took me abit but i found a powder the 204 and 22/250 both burn at moderate speeds

powder is imr 4895

22/250 pushn 55vmax 34gr of powder to go 3602

204 26grs of powder to push a 35gr berger at 3576

useing that powder the loads are 8 great difreince in charge but also comparable speeds with 20gr difreince in bullet weight. difrent bullets kinda throw that compoarison off alittle.

ill look for more same powders throwing bullets at the same or close to same speeds.



kay heres a couple max loads useing varget

22/250 55vmax. 36grs doing 3794
204 35berger 29grs doing 3812


couple more of varget useing 40gr vmaxes in both calibers

22/250 34grs at 3625. miumum load max is 4100 with 38grs
204 28.1grs(compressed) at 3647 guess thats max load

both with 50gr bullets
22/250 varget powder 32grs at 3415 minum/ 36gr 3794 max
204 26grs at 3287 thats max minum is 24grs doing 3071

thats as heavy as we go in the 204 for for right now so ill quit doing sided by side comparison there. the bigger the bullet the less powder the 22/250 is pushn to stay ahead of the 204. anythinig 40grs and heavier is taxing the 204 for all its worth to keep up with the 22/250 minum loads that are just alittle richer than the 204s.

[skb2706]

your comparision is a 'hodge podge' of miss information and always handy "apples to oranges". But so be it....you are comparing a case designed to hold about 29 gr. of powder to one that will hold 40 gr. of powder with ease. Not to mention the obvious diameter difference of .020". Regardless of all that my .204 consistently shoots 32 gr. bullets at 4100 fps plus and 40 gr. bullets at 3800...this is chronographed not transcribed. My 22-250 will be smokin hot after ten shot strings on the hot prairie shootin dogs....my .204 will reach just as far and slatter them nearly as well....all the while keeping cooler longer, costing me less to shoot and most often more accurately. I think it is nearly the perfect prairie dog caliber currently available.

[Evan03]

isnt this all about compareing apple to oranges melons to a difrent kind of melon if you get my drift.

the 204 and 22/250 are both a difrent breed of animal, but both do the same job. its us to us to decide wich is best for us.

i wasnt necesarly throwing comparisons out there for you and me but to others looking into the calibers and trying to decide what they want out of caliber.

as strickly small game varmit rifle the 204 is hands down one of the best specialized calibers out there.

but if your looking for something that is allittle more versitile there are many better options both the 223 and 22/250 included.

i do think the 204 would be cool in light weight shorter barreld lower power varmit rig for a winter time coyote getting rabbit blasting rifle. this rifle would even fit the bill shooting rock chucks at 300yds and further after hikeing into cayon full of the critters.

ill also add from exsperince i know that its a dandy 400yd jack rabbit shooter. fast flat and recoil is next to none. flops em over dead sometimes with no exit other times it blows the heart and guts right out of them.

but the 224s i have are just flat can be just as fast and are capable to use on larger game like antelope and small deer.

that is number one for me. i like to know with the right bullets placed in the right spot i can take deer as large as our game with every rifle i own. theres where the 204 doesnt make the cut. i dont know of any 20cal bullets id want to shoot a deer with. im sure there might be a tough 20cal bullet but as of right now i dont know of any.

there was time i thought the 204 was the coolest thing on the planet. had #1vt in 204 on order and payed for, for almost six months. at about six months i changed my order to 22/250.

but as luck would have it i regreted not giving the 204 a go. ended up getting one to go with the 22/250 . but its coolness kinda wore off and i got rid of it.

but thats just me. i for some reason kinda keep aquireing 224 call rifles here and there.

i may end up with a 204 again someday but itl be wim kinda thing or because i get the rifle at super deal.

anyways enough about that.

im curious how yours is set up what kinda critters have you been shooting are you reloading. i wont even ask about the how it shoots ive seen first hadn the little groups they can print. and most all seem to it on regular basis no matter what rifle and barrel desing theyre chamberd in.

i also apoligize if youve taken me the wrong way im in no means bashing the caliber.

im just compareing melons to melons and boy to i like melons ;)

Evan

[Evan03]

also im becomeing more curious almost missed it. i think you talked like you have 22/250. more details please.

or maybe your the exact opisite of me and now that you got the 204 the 22/250 has been sent donw the river

[skb2706]

Sorry Evan......didn't get back til today and also didn't want you to think I was attacking you. Text can do that.......

I bought a TC carbine for my sons birthday in March this year chambered in .204 factory barrel. We shoot tons of pds on my sisters farm and have many chances to go. Originally started out using an old Savage 110 in 22-250 worked great but often got very hot and required down time. I set up a TC carbine in .221 for me, son used 22-250 up til his birthday this year.
Out comes the .204, we still use several other guns but man the .204 will reach out there and this one is deadly to 400 yds. ....gets the majority of use. His is setup with a Mueller 3.5 x 10 Eradicator...factory stock.

I liked his so much I built one for me on a TC Contender frame I had. 23" Match Grade MAchine full bull Stainless on a Bullberry/Woodsmith stock and just ordered a Weaver KT15 scope on Burris Z rings.

We prefer the 32 gr. bullets and since they shot to the same POI I can alternate between Vmaxs and Blitz kings no prob. Using 29.0 gr. of RL-15 is very accurate and slightly under listed max. For this kind of volume shooting I don't like max loads, they waste material and are just not necessary. We will shoot 600-700 rounds on a good May weekend.

Take care and Happy Thanksgiving !!

The old Savage is pretty much relugated to coyotes and shots during cooling times for the other guns....the throat in it has long since been smoked. It will still make those long shots and it still wears a nice Leupold VXIIAO 4x12 that my son won't let me take off of it.

We will be hitting them again next week as we have a plains deer/pheasant/pd hunt going on all week.

PS in CO anything less than .243" 80 gr. bullets is not legal to shoot big game animals with so that consideration is mute here. The game that can be taken with .224"bullets is basically the same as what is legal with a .204".
http://www.hunt101.com/img/307327.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=307327&c=500&z=1)

[TreeDoc]

Way too much "thinkin" going on here!

[Evan03]

and thats a bad thing because ? :D


and im off and running to the bullberry site. man one of these days i need to get tc going. id love to add one to my stables . the meduim weight rig in some kinda varmit rig apeals to me. maybe just break down and do one in 6mm or something. grrrr i dunno.

[Ridge Runner]

Evan, just ran some numbers through load from a disc for windows on the two loads you listed for 40 v-max's in the 22-250 and the 204
results are
22-250 .224 40 gr. v-max (BC .200)4100 fps
100 .66
200 .0
300 -4.54
400 -14.55
500 -32.48 windage 5 mph 17.6

204 ruger .204 40 gr v-max (BC .275) 3675 fps
100 .87
200 0.0
300 -4.99
400 -15.28
500 -32.46 windage 5 mph 13.4

So if all things being eqal the better bc of the 20 cal shoots just as flat at 300+ fps less velocity and resists wind better that the 224 dia bullets of the same weight
RR

[Evan03]

ummmhmmmmm

i didnt concider BC.

you got me on that one.:rolleyes: :)

now rocky made the better comparison.

[Catfish]

Evan,
Here are some rules of thumb that make it easier when you start looking at preformance in different cals. and rounds.
1. The larger the bore dia. the faster you can push a bullet of a given weight with a smaller powder charge.
ie. With your favorit .22-250 you can push a 69 gn. bullet to abt 3200 fps. max. With a .250 Savage you can push a 75 gn. bullet to abt. 3400 fps. Same case size but larger bore dia.
2. The smaller the dia. of a bullet of any given wieght the higher the BC. ( assuming they are made of the same matteral.)
ie. The BC of a 125 gn. .357 bullet is abt. .140 where the BC of a105 gn. bullet in .243 is .254.
With these rules we know the the big bore shoot faster and their bullets will drop less at shorter range, but with the smaller BC they will slow down faster. We also know that with the higher BC the smaller dia. bullets will hold their valosity better and at some point be traveling faster than the big bore bullets meaning the will be dropping less at longer ranges. The problem comes when you start trying to find the range at which the advantage changes.
Think abt. that for a while. :rolleyes: