Hunter Ethics

[tjwatty]

Pet peeves brought this to mind.
What is the ethical/proper thing to do.

You shoot an out of season duck or one that puts you over the daily limit. (canvasback) What do you do? If you take it in you are at risk of arrest and/or fine, if you throw it away you waste a resource. What do you do?

Another blind shoots a duck/goose. They don't see it go down but you do. Do you retrieve and give to them or do you keep it. Same thing with a cripple, they shoot but the bird makes it to your blind and you finish it. Yours or theirs??

You shoot a deer, it goes onto property you know is off limits and the owner will not allow access. Do you sneak in and get the deer or take a chance the CPO will help make the recovery??

You accidently kill a hen pheasant??? Leave it lay? Take a chance?

[fabsroman]

The proper thing to do when you break the law is to report the violation (i.e., shooting over the limit, shooting an out of season duck, shooting a hen pheasant). If a game warden is watching and you do one of the above and let it lay, there is a law in Maryland called Wanton Waste and they will cite you with both shooting over the limt/shooting birds out of season and and wanton waste. A friend of mine got a warning for wanton waste. In Maryland, you have to make a good faith effort to recover what you knock down and you must reduce it to possession and bring it home. Once at home, you can do whatever you want with the resource.

In the real world, nobody is going to report their own violation. I'll give you an example, we were hunting a field where the geese just wouldn't stop coming in. There were 5 of us with a 5 bird limit and we killed 25. While walking to the truck, we found another goose about 500 yards from where we were hunting. Now, we were 1 bird over the limit amongst 5 guys. Whose bird was it.

That brings me to another question. How do you count birds when you are hunting waterfowl. Do you group count them or does everybody count the ones they shot, and how do you really know who shot what?

"Another blind shoots a duck/goose. They don't see it go down but you do. Do you retrieve and give to them or do you keep it. Same thing with a cripple, they shoot but the bird makes it to your blind and you finish it. Yours or theirs??"

The two questions above are also questions of mine. Regarding the first scenario, I think you should let them know that the bird went down and give them the option to retrieve it if it isn't by your blind. If it is by your blind, and you retrieve it (i.e., reduce it to possession), I have no idea how the law treats that (i.e., whose bird is it). As far as the second scenario goes, I think it depends on how birds are treated once reduced to possession.

As far as wounded or dead animals going onto property you do not have permission to go on, I think you have to let them lay or ask the property owner for permission to enter the property and retrieve the game. I had that happen once where I shot a goose and it made it across the fence line where I knew we didn't have permission to go (i.e., the farm owner had gotten mad at other hunters before). I left it there but counted it toward my limit. At the end of the day, I guess a game warden could have cited me with wanton waste, but I think I would have had a good reason for it. If I were to shoot a big game animal and it went onto property I wasn't allowed to hunt, I would ask for permission to recover the animal without using my gun. If denied permission, I think I would contact the game warden at that point.

These are all good questions, and I am dying to see what the actual answers are. It is tough to look them up when we are out in the field and the situation comes up.

[rubicon]

right , wrong, or indifferent, Im going to take that mistaken bird home,: offer the bird to the guys in the blind or offer to retrieve it for them and get to see my dog work another retrieve and hope it was shot by a youngster or newcomer and some day they would be doing the same thing for someone else. And that deer, Im going after it. Lastly, if Mr gamewarden starts scratching my name all over his citation book---Im hiring FABS

[fabsroman]

Rubicon,

What I like about you is that you tell it like it is.

Believe it or not, I have actually represented somebody other than myself on a DNR violation. I represented myself and two other guys (i.e., my dad and a friend) on a charge of discharging a firearm within 150 yards of a dwelling. Ended up being found NOT guilty by the Judge. What pissed me off about that one was that the State's Attorney's plea bargain was 8 hours of community service, not hunting on the farm any longer, and coming back to Court for another day after the community service was done in order to have all the charges dropped (i.e., Nolle Prosequi'd). I have had clients charged with 2nd degree assault that had the charges dropped for a lesser charge and probation before judgment. That trial was a complete waste of the Court's time just because the State's Attorney didn't do his homework. If he had, he would have dropped the case from the beginning.

Represented another guy for shooting over the limit on ducks and not having his hunting license in his possession. Got him probation before judgment without any trouble.

[honga]

There is no Maryland state regulation or law on wanton waste, there is however a Federal statute that applies to the wanton waste of waterfowl. Wanton waste is the failure to attempt to retrieve and/or the waste of W/F after taking. The federal statute applies to migratory birds only..there is no rule that outlaws wanton waste of non-migratory critters i.e. deer, upland birds, turkeys etc. There should be and I believe MD sportsman should pressure the legislature to enact a law that pertains to wanton waste of state wildlife.

[fabsroman]

I guess that would fit the situation. We were huntig mourning doves when my buddy got the wanton waste warning. I never did see anything in the Maryland DNR code about it, but I also didn't look that hard since I didn't receive the warning and I never willingly leave an animal in the field except for crows and foxes.

[DelDuck]

I think I am with rubicon on the 1st one, the mistaken bird is coming home with me under most situations. I would never let the birl just lay there. The only time I would report/say something would be if the man is at the dock when I am coming back in. I would say something before I ever got out of the boat.

If the boys in the next blind had no clue the bird was there I would fetch it up for them and run it on over in the boat real quick for them. Same with a cripple.

The deer... I am going to fetch him up.

and for the hen well see answer #1.

We all make mistakes and well as the saying goes poo happens.

[tjwatty]

Right wrong or indifferent this is the way I did it.

The ducks got filleted and eaten in the blind for lunch. (not wasted)

The cripple and dead duck from the other blind always goes back. (my rule from the beginning)

The deer across the property line is on a friends property, it's a real nice 10 pt buck not 30yds from the stand. We recovered the arrow and chained the head to a tree. If the jerk would have come forward like a man he could have had his deer. Now, I think he will be prosecuted if caught.

The hen pheasant?? I was hunting with the game warden and it was my first ever pheasant. 1968 $25 But we kept it. (shot it with a 16ga. single brl Cresent Firearms cannon)

[fabsroman]

TJ,

Your post brought back some memories. It was the first time I was ever hunting with my uncle, my father's brother, and we were pheasant hunting. A hen got up and one of my brothers took a shot at it. My other brother and I got on him about it, but my uncle stepped in and said, "Don't worry, I would have put him in the bag too."

I used to waterfowl hunt with a guy that said he would cut the breasts out of a mis-identified duck and take them to the dock that way because the fine was a lot less for cutting up the duck than it was for shooting the wrong duck.

Haven't had to deal with the deer issue yet.

[DogYeller]

TJ, I was curious how our local department would handle similar situations, so I sent your questions to the ODWC. Here's their reply;

1. You should always be sure of your target before you shoot to keep you out of this type of ethical dilemma. The worst case scenario would be to get caught throwing away an illegal duck. I would take my chances of trying to explain the mistake. Most wardens are understanding of mistakes.
2. That is another ethical question. I would give the goose back if they were making an effort to retrieve the bird. If they are ignoring a obviously injured bird, then they in violation for not making the effort to retrieve.
3. You can not go onto someone's property without permission. Call the local game warden to recover the deer.
4. Don't shoot a hen pheasant and you will not have a problem. It is very easy to tell the difference between a cock and hen.
Please remember that our wardens are very good at long range surveillance.
Capt. David Deckard
Law Enforcement Division
Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation

[tjwatty]

Dog Yeller,
The pheasant was my first ever hunt, I had been quail hunting foir several years and had just moved to Iowa. The boys who took me hunting didn't bother to tell me you wern't supposed to shoot hens. Yea I know< ignorance of the law, but that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.
The canvasback thing is one of my pet peeves, we went over on a young guys shot who is in his first year, us "old heads" were yelling but we also had mallards in the dekes at the same time. Honest mistake in IMHO but still wrong. After the shooting was done his dog brought in #2 extra that no one even saw go down, still wrong but illegal nontheless.
I can't afford fabs, and my wife would kill me besides so I figured if we eat the ducks today at least I beat the wanton waste thing. If only in my own mind.
I have a pretty good rep./rapor with our CPO and I don't think he would give me a ticket but it is his job and I/we were wrong so I just hope I kept him from carpal tunnel a little sooner.

[fabsroman]

I like the last sentence. "Please remember that our wardens are very good at long range surveillanace." I guess that comment is supposed to scare you a little.

So, whose goose is it if you recover it but the other guys shot it? I am willing to bet that it is counted as your goose if it is in your possession. Now, if the game warden is actually watching, which I have had happen to me before, then you might be able to make the argument that the other guys shot it, but that is IF the game warden is watching. Problem is, you never know when they are watching because they usually only come up after you are wrapping the hunting up for the day. I would hate to go to the boat ramp with an extra bird over the limit and then try to explain to the game warden that the guys in the other blind happened to shoot it.

[TreeDoc]

Originally posted by tjwatty

The ducks got filleted and eaten in the blind for lunch. (not wasted)

Dang, TJ! Now in addition to the Latte Machine and Waffle Iron, I have to put a stove in my rice blind and carry some seasonings?

Oh, on the subject of long range surveilance. My Veterinarian friend to me about a buddy of his who was nailed this season by "long range." He apparently shot a Canvasback which doesn't start till Dec 01 out here. He left it at his blind after shooting an additional limit (7) of birds. On his way out a DFG Warden stopped and checked him and asked where the Can was. The Warden walked him back out to the blind where the Can was laying and wrote him up for shooting the bird out of season in addition to shooting 1 over the limit.

When I crip a bird and sail it and am unable to recover it, I count that against my limit.

[fabsroman]

Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. You would think that the guy would have stopped after he reached 7 birds with the canvansback. I am almost smiling at that story (i.e., his getting two citations).

[M.T. Pockets]

I don't know what kind of optics conservation officers use, but if you've ever looked through 12x50 Swarovski's you'd know just how visible you are a mile away.

[fabsroman]

I don't think they try to see exactly who you are. The one time I saw them use the stuff, they were also listening to what we were saying and identifying people by what we called them (e.g., Dr., Dad). Another time, they were identifying people by what we were wearing. Both times were on dove fields around here. With the binos, they were also able to see who killed what out in the open. Some idiot shot at a hawk thinking it was a dove that day. Lucky for him he missed it.

[rubicon]

mistake a hawk---for a dove---Now thats a close call

[fabsroman]

As you can see, I started that sentence out with "Some idiot."