.357 Magnum Loads

[tooldummy]

Illinois has a late season deer hunt in January. A friend of mine is planning on hunting and has asked me to load him some pistol loads to hunt with. He has a .357 Magnum to use, and I feel this is a little light to use on deer, but since he has it, that's what he is going to use. He can also carry a shotgun with slugs as a back up. Anyway, I loaded him some 158 grain Winchester Hollow Point lead and 10 grains of Red Dot powder. I normally load that lead with 7 grains of Unique. I can load something else if I decide something would be better. I also have some 125 grain Winchester Hollow Points I could use, as well as Herco and Red Dot powder. Of the stuff I have on hand, what would you recommend?

[Rocky Raab]

Actually, TD, none of what you mentioned is particularly appropriate.

The WW lead hollowpoints are probably swaged lead, and very soft.

The 125s are simply not deer bullets.

None of the powders you mention are good with heavy loads.

Frankly, I'd recommend that your friend buy some good factory 158-grain or heavier jacketed softpoints - NOT hollowpoints.

For what you'd spend getting and testing the right components, he'd be better off with factory stuff.

[8X56MS]

I like a Speer 158 grain JSP over 15 grains of 2400 powder. This load has worked for me over many years, in my old three screw Ruger Blackhawk.

[tooldummy]

Wow, I had no idea. I'll tell him what you suggested and see what he wants to do.
I've always like Alliant powders and had some from shotgun reloading. I went to their website and printed off some 158 grain recipes and they listed the powders I had and I figured this would work OK.
8x56MS, thanks for your reply also. I did some comparisons with what you recommended and according to what I printed off of the Allaint website the loads should be about the same. I'll have to try that lead sometime, I load for my .357 also.
Rocky,What powders would you recommend then? And what should I be looking for in a Magnum powder?

[Classicvette63]

For a .357 for, the only thing to use is 158gr softpoints (or heavier) and 2400 or 296 powder. There may be a few other "heavy" powders I'm not aware of. And that's on the light end of the deer cartridge scale.

[Rocky Raab]

There are several good powders for the 357 in hunting loads.

For almost full power loads and 158-gr bullets, Blue Dot is great. It'll take you to about 90% of the highest possible speeds.

For the mostest you can get, the list is: 2400, W296/H110, AA9, Enforcer (Ramshot) and N110 (Vihta-Vouri). Of those, the two best choices are probably 2400 or W296/H110.

With 2400, you'll get better results with a standard primer, and with either of the ball powders, use a magnum. I like WW primers with 296 because the primers are made specifically for it.

You'll also need to use a firm crimp with heavy loads, both for ignition and to keep the bullets from backing out.

Any load that gives you 1200 fps with a 158-grain softpoint bullet will do fine for deer out to 75 yards - no farther.

[tooldummy]

OK, thanks for the help everyone. I am going to save this for future reference. I appreciate everyones help.

[Adam Helmer]

tooldummy,

You got very good advice so far, but one more thing; will you have your buddy's .357 on hand to range test loads before you crank out hunting loads for him? If you have the gun available and can go to the bench, then work out a good accurate load with 158 grain jacketed soft points or heavier for deer.

Adam

[tooldummy]

Adam, thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, no, I do not have the pistol on hand to try some loads with.
When I first agreed to load some shells for this guy, I told him that it would be a good idea to get together and test a few loads out some Sunday afternoon. He finally sent me the brass to load and said I could send him whatever I wanted back with some mutual friends. I loaded him some that was within the safe range of the manual and sent them back to him. I know this isn't the proper way to do it, but that's what I did.
I have a range built to shoot at, and would enjoy getting together with a select few and loading and shooting. But getting together seems to be asking to much. This is a project I wish I hadn't got involved in.

[Handgun'r]

Maybe a day late, and a dollar short....but,

I carried the .357 Mag on duty, and as my dept's firearm instructor for years.
During our daily activities, we had to shoot hundreds of deer on calls varying from car accidents, to just general wounding from neglectful hunters, or the deer's own mishaps.

I've shot them from point blank, to maybe darn close to 100yds. at times. It's just sometimes you couldn't get close enough to the animal, but we tried to get as close as possible.

Although there are stronger caliber's out there, the .357 Mag., if properly and carefully used can do the job pretty well.

As my dept's firearms instructor, I had to test, and report on many various types of commercial ammunition.
I've used everything from ballistic gelatin, to wet newsprint, and also the live deer as test beds.
After all was said and done, we settled on the Winchester Silvertips at that time. I couldn't just state they were better, I had to prove it with data, and be able to back it up in court if someone was shot.
I had no "axe to grind", nor did I prefer one brand over another. I tested everything I could commercially get my hands on for duty ammo.

Sorry Rocky, but I gotta disagree with you on the hollowpoint issue. They performed excellently, as did the Speer GoldDots when doing performance tests with the NY State Police and Speer at our range. We literally shot through everything imaginable.

The older 158gr. Federal softpoints we use to use worked well on car doors, and heavier stuff, but they failed to expand well in several other areas, and we needed something that had a better balance overall.

I will say this in agreement somewhat, that I would definitely use a softpoint bullet when it came to marginally lighter bullets from 125-140grs'.
I've loaded the Sierra Power Jackets from 140-170grs. in the Magnum (I think) since they started making them. (I remember when they made the 140, and even the 150grs. back then, but they're discontinued now. )
Also, in relation to the softpoint theory somewhat, I'll admit to being a longtime cast bullet caster and user, and I now shoot them exclusively in my revolvers. In the heavier calibers they work well, but will overpenetrate if you make them too hard, naturally.
I haven't used any for deer in the .357 that I remember, but I even have hollowpoints in cast moulds as well.
I feel that the larger meplat of the .44's and .45 caliber bullets imparts more energy to the target and this in itself has a measureable affect. Expansion is there, but not as explosive as pure lead naturally. In comparison, I think that the softpoints and JHP's would be mnore closely related in performance, than they would to the cast bigger meplat bullets....but that's me.

A 158-170gr JHP (preferrably the latter) over H110/W296, or Li'l Gun makes for a very potent load out of the .357, and in my opinion, in most cases, they better the factory loads by quite a margin.


Take care,
Bob

[tooldummy]

Thank you for your thoughts Bob. I appreciate it. Sounds like you have a lot of experience and knowledge, especially on .357 Magnum. Look forward to reading more from you.

[Handgun'r]

TD,

Thanks for the kind words....

Like many others, I started loading the .38 & .357's as my first rounds when the reloading bug hit many, many moons ago.
As a kid, I thought the .357 Magnum was the almightly powerful "king of the hill".......that was until I had a taste of the .44.
In latter years I've found that with the proper mindset regarding cast bullets, they kill as quick, or quicker...but differently, if you get my point.

Whereas the jacketed bullets start expanding on impact, and continue to grow as they penetrate, they also shed their energy at an increasing rate as their frontal diameter increases. Naturally, the bigger a bullet mushrooms, the more it transmits it's energy, and the quicker it slows.

In an odd comparison, kind of like the way a parachute works on the back of a jet. But, instead of catching energy (wind), it transmits it.

At a point prior to the bullet stopping inside an animal, the bullet has slowed enough where mushrooming seems to cease. If it has enough energy left while in motion in soft tissue, and then strikes a bone, naturally it'll expand further, but it all depends on how much.
A jacketed bullet was the answer to a lot of problems back when they were developed. A copper jacket of approx. 40BHN, and a pure lead core of 5BHN, working in unison, the two performed very well together and gave very desirable results on game.
The harder (40BHN) jacket also engaged the rifling in the barrel in a more postive way creating a better level of accuracy overall.

All that being said, a trip backwards to cast bullets, and using some of todays bullet styles, technology, and alloys, it's easy to produce bullets that will match jacketed bullets in accuracy and even killing power. The thing is, now instead of using two seperate components of different hardness levels, you have one consistent alloy. (Other than the two part cast bullets you glue together)
As jacketed bullets shed their energy over a more gradual curve, cast bullets depend more on their frontal flat, or meplat more so.
A big flat nose in a cast round hit's very hard and transmits a good majority of it's energy on impact. It also expands as it travels, but not the same as a jacketed round.
It seems the two are opposite in the way they react, or are designed to react, I should say.

Well, I'm ramblin on and on here.....:o

Thanks, take care & have a good Xmas

Bob

[tooldummy]

Wow, that is some good information. And I appreciate your input. Is there a particular bullet that you would recommend for the application (deer) that I am going to use these bullets on? I would order some of your recommendation and get them loaded up. Or are you saying the hollow point lead I already have will suffice?
You all have a Merry Christmas also.

[Handgun'r]

TD,

As mentioned previously by Rocky, 99% of all lead bulk bullets that you order from Winchester, Remington or Hornady, are pure lead and only suitable for light to moderate shooting. About 900fps. is all you can achieve with these bullets without degradation of accuracy, and terrible leading.

Although I've used 140gr JHP's for deer in the past, my suggestion for a good deer load would be any bullet of 158-170grs, preferrably in hollowpoint form in the higher weights.

As far as "bulk bullets", I've had great luck with the Remington bulks. Everyone offers the 158gr nominal weights, and although Remington doesn't offer much in between, I've used their 180gr. JHP's with very good luck.
Sierra's, Hornady XTP's, etc., are all pretty good, really. I don't know of anyone that's making a "bad bullet" nowadays.
For a non-bulk, more premium bullet, I've yet to try the XTP's, but they look promising.
Like I said before though, I've been into the "cast bullet club" exclusively for the past several years, so I gotta break out and load more jacketed stuff I guess.

I also have a lot of bullet swaging equipment (C-H & Corbin), and using jackets & core lead, I've made my own in the past in weights that I thought were optimal. In some cases they flew better than factory, mainly in my .357 Max.

Very few, but some companies make odd weights in the mid-160 range.
Admittedly, I haven't used them, and I kind of like the Sierra's 170gr JHP Power Jacket regarding weight. I haven't seen them advertised lately, and I hope they haven't discontinued them.

Their sharper angled ogive either works very well, or not at all, when it comes to forcing cones, but that is a marriage of bullet to gun. I have had better luck with a more rounded ogive in a pistol bullet (with my guns), and have reshaped the Sierra's at times to make them function better.

To keep things cheap.....buy some 158's & 180's in Remington bulk, a pound of H110, W296 and/or Li'l Gun, and have at it.
I've used H110 & 296 over the years and you get the best magnum performance in the .357 Mag using them. Li'l Gun is very similar in load weight and velocity to H110, but following Hodgdon's data, it seems to show a smoother pressure curve. I've just bought a keg of it, and haven't gotten to testing loads with it yet.
It shows promise (data wise) for my new wildcat interest in the .22 Super Jet.

We'll see..........Take care,

Bob