manners

[DelDuck]

when you are hunt public land, or in the blind??

I have 2.

1st is the guys who think they have to get on the duck call 10 mins before shooting time and stay on the darn thing all day long. It drives me nuts.

2nd are the guys who think they have a mountain howizer for a shot gun, and sky bust. I have seen "boys" take shots at birds that are flyin so high they have nose bleeds.

[TreeDoc]

1. Running out of espresso in the Latte Machine in the blind.

2. Forgetting to turn on the handwarmers on the ATV when I'm on my way to the blind 15 minutes before shoot time.

Duck hunting is a horrible B*tch Goddess, I'm sure I'll think of more terrible peeves like those above when I put my mind to it. :rolleyes:

[DelDuck]

forgetting to turn the hand warmer on is bad but running out of espresso is unforgivable:D

[TreeDoc]

:D

[fabsroman]

Skybusting is one of the top ones.

Hunting with people that cannot shoot worth beans and watching a bunch of cripples fly away is another.

Hunting next to a bunch of idiots in the next field is probably on the top of the list (i.e., the guys that pass shoot the birds as they are headed to my setup).

Last but not least, watching other hunters break the rules by shooting before or after legal shooting time and/or shooting over the limit.

[skeet]

My biggest pet peeve is attorneys that can't hit an EASY pheasant.... Hey guys..we have to go shootin again..soon. Gonna warm up. I'm 4 for 5 on geese now. I actually missed a goose at under 40 yds. I really am annoyed. BTW the SBEII really does shoot well. Kicks a bit with 3 1/2 in Hevi Shot. Lets go shoot!!:D :D

[M.T. Pockets]

I'd have to say rude hunters. I've run into more rude hunters this year than the last 10 combined.

A couple weeks ago I was boating out in a marsh on public water about a half hour before shooting time and stopped on a point to begin setting up. About then a voice in the dark hollers a bunch of swear words and tells me what a bad hunter I am. I asked "where are you ?" and a little flash light came on about 100 yards away. He was cussing me out for as long as I could hear as I pushed my boat down the marsh.
I know of one hunter out with his son that set up early on this same public land, close to the border with private land. When the owner of the private land arrived he hollered at the other hunter and actually fired a shot at him and peppered him with his pattern at about 100 yards. Law enforcement got involved in that one.

I've noticed waterfowl hunters are much more competitive now than a generation ago. I think it has to do with less land to hunt, better equipment and promotion by decoy, call & ammo manufacturers bragging about "Wacking", "Straight Meat" and other ways to kill, kill, kill. If you don't kill as much as the rest you're a failure.

[DelDuck]

Originally posted by M.T. Pockets
I'd have to say rude hunters. I've run into more rude hunters this year than the last 10 combined.

A couple weeks ago I was boating out in a marsh on public water about a half hour before shooting time and stopped on a point to begin setting up. About then a voice in the dark hollers a bunch of swear words and tells me what a bad hunter I am. I asked "where are you ?" and a little flash light came on about 100 yards away. He was cussing me out for as long as I could hear as I pushed my boat down the marsh.
I know of one hunter out with his son that set up early on this same public land, close to the border with private land. When the owner of the private land arrived he hollered at the other hunter and actually fired a shot at him and peppered him with his pattern at about 100 yards. Law enforcement got involved in that one.

I've noticed waterfowl hunters are much more competitive now than a generation ago. I think it has to do with less land to hunt, better equipment and promotion by decoy, call & ammo manufacturers bragging about "Wacking", "Straight Meat" and other ways to kill, kill, kill. If you don't kill as much as the rest you're a failure.

You got that right. Some of my best days were the ones I shot 1 or 2 birds, but just had an absoulute ball with my buddies, or seeing my dog make a great retrieve. I has become so much about how much you kill and not so much about how you kill and just haveing a grand 'ol time. I wish I could have gone this morning but my wife had to work and nobody to watch the kids, so I have daddy duties today.

[fabsroman]

Okay, rude hunters would be on the top of my list. You should see some of my posts from two years ago.

I hunted one field that I have been hunting for the last 10 years and another guy, who happens to guide, was setting up in the next field right on the border of the field I was hunting in because he knew the geese were coming to my field. I walked up to him, and tried to start talking, but he wasn't very nice. At the end, I asked him not to sky bust if the birds were coming to my setup and he made a stupid comment. My response was that if he did sky bust I would have no choice buy to park my truck right on the edge of the two fields and ruin the hunt for both of us. His response "You gotta do what you gotta do."

I try to be a nice guy as often as I possibly can, but sometimes I end up getting the short end of the stick and that turns me mean.

That day, my dad and I shot our 10 bird limit in 30 minutes, just as those guys were getting frustrated and trying to shoot birds a little too far. After we limited out, I got the truck, picked up the decoys, and left the area so they could try to get their limits.

I had another instance with some other idiots that made us move our decoys some 50 yards because we were over the property line, which was our mistake, albeit an honest one because there were really no marked boundaries. They wouldn't hunt in with us and we ended up setting up about 150 yards away from them. Within viewing distance, there was 3 different setups. The birds were flying that afternoon, but none of them came into any setup until about sunset. We had a pair of mallards circling our decoys for 5 minutes, but thought it was after shooting time so we didn't pull the trigger. The other guys kept on shooting so late that I could see flames out of their barrels and I knew it was well after legal shooting time.

"Why can't we all be friends?" Who cares if 5 guys have to waterfowl hunt with 5 other guys. Personally, I look at it as a way to make more hunting friends and friends in general. If the birds are coming, everybody has some fun, if they aren't we can still have some fun.

As you can see from the length of this post, it really does piss me off.

[M.T. Pockets]

Fabs, you're right on with the attitude of why can't we be friends.

I've hunted in one slough since I was 15 in 1980, it is a public area, about 250 acres of good cattails & water. There were about 3 or 4 groups that hunted there regularly for many years, they were very respectful of other hunters, if a group of ducks was working someone else's decoys - the other groups would quit calling. Very few shots were taken unless the ducks were commited with wings cupped. I was told early on that as a rule of thumb "don't shoot unless the feet are down". If a flock of mallards was working someone's decoys, nobody would take a shot at a teal or other duck til the mallards came down. The guys had class.

I hunted alone, it was very common for one of the groups to invite me to set up with them and we hunted together. Other times we would ask where everyone planned on going and we spread out. If a lone hunter without decoys was pass shooting at ducks working decoy spreads he was often invited to join in and hunt over decoys. We were shooting 2 3/4" #4 shot and killed as many ducks as hunters today shooting 3 1/2" #2's. We helped each other find cripples and if one group finished off a bird for another group, it was given to the group that knocked it down. I learned a lot from these hunters, they didn't have the best equipment but they had skill and class.

[skeet]

MT...that is exactly what it was like hunting around here years ago. But then everybody knew everybody else so it was much more cordial. Now it seems as though it's snarl and bark time when you're near another group of hunters. My daughter has a place not too far from me and they had a group of hunters come up ..park in the yard..take a bunch of tree stands out of the trucks and then proceed to cross their property going to a piece of woods that they own. Didn't ask.... nothing. Just parked in the lane(so they couldn't come in or leave their own house. Daughter told them to leave and move the vehicles off the property. Come to find out..the guys had bought the piece of woods and had no legal access to it. Just figured they would go and do what they wanted where they wanted. Of course they were from Baltimore and had no manners. If they had asked my daughter would have probably told them to park in a different area and go ahead. She is a hunter too. Not now. Ignorance breeds stupidity..or vice versa. They even got nasty when she told them to leave her property. The moral of this story..if you are going to be stupid...Don't be nasty too!! BTW this just happened 3 days ago. And we found out that the reason they came to her place ..seems as though thye were allowed to cross somones property to get to theirs..and lost that right when they cut trees etc to make a road through someone else's woods to get to theirs. Without even asking!! DUH!!! Fabs...Del//Let's shoot!!

[fabsroman]

Skeet,

Let me know when and where and I will be more than happy to do some shooting. I have to work on a tax return all this weekend, but am open for any other time next week. I am going to miss the first day of deer season for the first time in 10 years. There are a lot more circumstances involved than just work, but it would take way too long to list them all right now.

God, I wish I knew what it was like to hunt with strangers that are friendly.

As far as somebody parking in my lane, blocking my way out, and not even asking if they can do so, you can bet that I would be calling the game warden and the local authorities about trespassing and showing up in Court for the trial.

Then, hunters wonder why they are not welcome most of the time. Then again, it is always a couple of bad apples that ruin it for all of us.

[M.T. Pockets]

Fabs, I know what you mean. I still will run into some good, friendly hunters out there, but not nearly as many as a generation ago.

A few years ago on opening day of duck season a buddy & I were walking with our gear to the slough where we were going to set up. Just then a truck door slams behind us & a young guy about 18 jumps out and hollers "What the #$%&* are you guys doing here !!. This was on public land, apparantly he'd been scouting it for weeks and felt some ownership interest in this spot. My buddy didn't even break stride and replied "We've been hunting here when you were still pooping yellow" and on we went. The kid's father came and apologized, we had a good visit and together put together a plan on how each group would set up, both groups had a great hunt that day.

Sometimes hunters can be their own worst enemy, we need to work together if we're going to keep this sport going.

If you boys from Maryland ever make it to the Mid-West, I'd be glad to take you out.

[Aim to maim]

Many of the incidents described above are simply a reflection of the larger issue of a massive decline in civility that permeates our society today. Ill-mannered boors abound at every turn, not just among hunters. The challenge is to avoid becoming one of them.

[DelDuck]

I am up for some more shooting. Looks like tomarrow duck hunting is going to be a bust again. I miss my mother dearly but it is times like this i really miss her. Oh well my kids come 1st, it is early and there will be plenty of other ducken days left to come. Specially if I can get down and go with skeet :D

[skeet]

I think you all are right. The lack of civility in today's population of people is unbelieveable. I can be friendly with a rock...talk to anyone. If they treat me badly...well I just learned a lesson and don't try to strike up a conversation any more. BUT I really won't treat them in a nasty manner.. Unless they make me.:D Too bad about missing deer season like that Fabs. Hey DD I was talking with my hunting partner today. We're going to set up a duck hunt on the Nanticoke River for right after the season comes back in. I'll let you know. Still some Teal down that way. Friend is a caretaker of a RSA in Dorchester county. He called last night to see if I wanted to go down this AM. Call came too late for today though. 2 for 2 today. But these are really good tolling geese. 20 yd shots...or less if I get to call the shot

[fabsroman]

I'll agree with everybody about how people are just terrible in general. If I told you half the stories I have about people being mean, I would be here for weeks, maybe even months.

Hunting has been tough this year, but at least better than last year. Where I usually hunt on opening day, the landowner is in California and he has been letting a guy stay at the farm house the past several months. I've hunted with them before, but for some reason I just don't think I am very welcome up there, with maybe the exception of the farm owner. I have hunted up there on opening day for the past 10 years because it was more like a party than actually hunting. I have another place to hunt but just don't feel like going tomorrow.

I also have a spot to hunt deer right down the road from me, but won't be able to get out there until Monday when my buddy can go. The land is pretty much park land and the deer over there are insane. The geese and ducks are crazy too, but I cannot get permission to hunt them. The only reason I have permission to hunt the deer is because they have crop damage permits and the park is allowing us to kill them. This place is 5 minutes from my house so it makes it all the sweeter.

At the end of the day, I think I am just going to have to buy a boat next year and hunt on some public land over by Elliott's Island or somewhere thereabout.


Del,

I hear you loud and clear about the kids being priority #1. That is how it was with my dad and that is how it will be with me. I will never forget the first time I was supposed to tag along on a dove hunt. My dad was going to pick me up from home when I got home from school (i.e., kindergarten). I didn't want to admit that I was sick, but my mom figured it out and also figured out that I had a fever. Well, my dad scrapped the hunt and stayed home with me. I remember another time that he stayed home with me when I was sick and we didn't go hunting. That night he came into the bedroom with all kinds of ammo and we started going over what everything was. I think he knew I was addicted at a young age.

The first pheasant I "killed" I have some serious doubt about. I think I hit him, but I know my dad pulled the trigger too. He told me that I killed it and I was really happy, but being the thinking type of kid I was, I have always wondered if he shot it. To this day, he denies that he shot it and continues to say he was shooting at the other bird that came up. I guess it doesn't really matter because I connected on another bird that day and I was the only one that shot. I'll never forget that day either and I can remember exactly where the birds came up on the farm, the A-5 I was using, and the shells I was using. My mom even tool a picture me and my two brothers that day and I included it in my wedding video. I just wish my dad had been in that picture too.

At the end of the day, people can say whatever they want about me, but they had better not let me hear them saying anything bad about my dad. I hope your kids will feel the same way toward you.

[TreeDoc]

I gotta new pet peeve about waterfowlin' and it goes like this;

I hate leaving at 3 a.m. Friday morning to make the 6 hour drive to my club to start a Fri, Sat, and Sun hunt weekend with my wife, approach the off ramp at my exit only 30 minutes (8:45am) from my club only to hear some unusual squealing/grinding sound upon application of my brakes which then turns to serious shudder, grinding, and whining just as I come to a complete stop only to have my front end nearly shake off and my front right tire blow up! :eek: :mad:

I hate it even more that as I get out to inspect the damage in the 25 mph wind it starts downpouring forcing me into my rainsuit which then allows me to realize that my front brake caliper has COME OFF and has ground completely through the alloy wheel and destroyed it.

I really hate ratchet strapping my caliper to my torsion bar and putting on my spare tire to crawl to the nearest podunk town 3 miles down the road with only my emergency brake to stop only to find that no 14mm x 35mm bolt exists ANYWHERE within 45 miles of my position and having to wait 5.5 hours sitting on the curb doing nothing but watching the first good weather day we've had this season turn to blue skies in said podunk town while the parts runner from a shop makes his delivery run and picks up said bolts from dealer.

I hate it when I finally make it safely to the club about 15 minutes from the end of shooting time to watch duck after duck pour into my spread to feed on my rice all night only to fly off hours before shoot time this morning literally leaving the skies completely barren of ANY ducks!

I hate cutting the trip short because of bluebird skies and driving 6 hours home the next day to arrive home and find 9000 emails in my inbox notifying me that you kooks have been posting up in here since I left and I should have just stayed here to share in the conversation! :D

[fabsroman]

TD,

Sounds like some of the hunting adventures I have had. Sorry to hear about what happened. How did the bolt on the brake caliper break? I have never heard of such a thing happening and if it is a manufacturing defect you can bet I would be all over Ford about it. I did have the rods on my Taurus' calipers freeze/rust tight. These are the rods that slide into the hardware that holds the calipers to the car. Essentially, the caliper bolts screw into these rods. It was a chore getting them out and replacing them and I am still hearing a little squeking back there that I will probably check out in the spring.

Hope you get the chance to get back out and get at those ducks.

[TreeDoc]

Fabs,
Actually, the bolts didn't break. What happened is the lower bolt of the two that hold the caliper on just fell out somewhere on the road between my break-down point and where I had filled up with gas some 2.5 hours prior. Because the lower bolt was missing, as I applied my brake when approaching the exit, it allowed the caliper to pivot back and come in contact with the wheel which if I had been able to tell what was going on I could have got off the brake and gone to my e-brake and trailer brake since I was towing my ATV back to the club. Not knowing what was causing the sound I naturally continued to brake as I approached the stop sign at the top of the offramp. The more I wanted to stop, the worse it got until it simply ground right through the alloy wheel essentially cutting it in half before it finally broke through and the air escaped rapidly causing me to think I had a blow out.

I personally did the brakes on the truck about 10,000 miles ago but I know I torqued the bolts. I forgot and my wife reminded me that I just had some warranty work on the front driveline because an inner 4WD axle actuator failed and it wouldn't lock the front axle in when in 4WD. They had to disassemble the whole right front axle housing to fix it and I'm pretty confident that included removing the caliper and wheel assy. The sad part is that it is a friend who works at the dealer that did the work but I'm going in Monday to investigate the repair procedure to see if they had the caliper off. If they did, then the dealer is buying me a new alloy wheel. This work was done a few weeks ago right before I drove the rig on a 2200 mile round trip to Colorado. Damn, how fun would this have been in the middle of the Utah high desert?

[fabsroman]

That is why I hate taking my vehicles to the dealer even for warranty work. When I do the work it is usually done right and nobody is screwing with anything on the vehicle they aren't supposed to or forgetting to tighten/torque bolts or over torguing bolts.

My sister's mechanic stripped the threads to the oil pan for the oil pan bolt. Another guy told me he caught the guy at Jiffy Lube using the largest wrench possible to tighten the oil pan bolt and he was cranking on it. According to the story, the guy caught him just in time.

On another occassion, right after I did a tune up on my buddy's car he took it into Jiffy lube 3,000 miles later to get the oil changed. They told him he needed a bunch of tune up stuff (e.g., air filter) and I had just replaced it about 3,000 miles prior.

I won't even start about the list of repair/tune-up items that the service clerk listed for my wife's Sonata when we took it in for warranty work. I found out that the service clerks work on commission based upon how many repairs they can sell.

Sorry to hear that it was your friend that did the repair. That really sucks. You would think that your friend would have paid special attention to your baby.

As far as continuing to use the brakes after hearing the noise, I have been guilty of that when the pads are worn down to the rivets.

[rubicon]

I know Im jumping forum but just got back from a West Virginia deer hunt at my cabin. Opening morning i went to my ladder stand which has been in the same spot for three years. Although it was dark there were no human foot prints in the snow. I seldom see any hunters up there. I climbed up in the stand, still dark, and waited untill daylight. Granted, I am up in a tree, but there shure arent any leaves up there this time of year and I had a blaze orange vest on as required by wv dnr. Right after first dawn this guy comes by on a four wheeler, gets off the bike and sits down on a rock facing me about 30 yards away. After about 10 minutes he lays his rifle down beside him and gets out a radio and starts listening to music. No headphones. I climbed out of my stand and startled the dude. He had been staring at me without seeing me. So much for opening morning.

[kt]

here is one for you all, i have a couple of buddies which for whatever reason i dont get out much with, if im smashing birds a week or so we talk about it and try to get together to smash some with company. here is where it gets funky, i take them to my spot, put out my set up that has been killing birds and before its light out they feel the need to tell me to put out fewer birds, move these birds here, the set up would work better if i did this or just start moving MY dekes! the occasional suggestion is cool but its annoying in time. such folk get themselves left at home!

[BILLY D.]

Originally posted by fabsroman
That is why I hate taking my vehicles to the dealer even for warranty work. When I do the work it is usually done right and nobody is screwing with anything on the vehicle they aren't supposed to or forgetting to tighten/torque bolts or over torguing bolts.

My sister's mechanic stripped the threads to the oil pan for the oil pan bolt. Another guy told me he caught the guy at Jiffy Lube using the largest wrench possible to tighten the oil pan bolt and he was cranking on it. According to the story, the guy caught him just in time.

On another occassion, right after I did a tune up on my buddy's car he took it into Jiffy lube 3,000 miles later to get the oil changed. They told him he needed a bunch of tune up stuff (e.g., air filter) and I had just replaced it about 3,000 miles prior.

I won't even start about the list of repair/tune-up items that the service clerk listed for my wife's Sonata when we took it in for warranty work. I found out that the service clerks work on commission based upon how many repairs they can sell.

Sorry to hear that it was your friend that did the repair. That really sucks. You would think that your friend would have paid special attention to your baby.

As far as continuing to use the brakes after hearing the noise, I have been guilty of that when the pads are worn down to the rivets.

hey fabs

i hope you remembered to top off the turn signal fluid and grease the muffler bearings. sheeeeeesh, i hate shoddy maintenance. he. he.

[fabsroman]

Billy,

I use nothing but the best fluids. DOT 4 turn signal fluid and red Mobil 1 synthetic muffler bearing grease. There is nothing worse than a noisy turn signal and muffler. Today, I told the neighbor next door that about the only thing left for me to do on my place was some baseboard and the installation of a compressor in my garage. He looked at me dumbfounded when I mentioned the compressor. I had to tell him that it was to run air tools for working on my cars and other things. The entire reason he came over was to look at what I had done to my place. Sad thing is that he is imitating what I have done. Of course, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[TreeDoc]

Fab's, make sure he isn't setting you up for trouble with the HOA and your "noisy" compressor! ;)

btw....what type of lubrication do you use on your chain drive picture tube?

[fabsroman]

TD,

You had me worried there for a minute, so I went back and read my HOA agreement. Boy do I hate those things.

There is a nuisance paragraph in the Agreement, but there is no definition. If my running the compressor a couple of times a month qualifies as a nuisance, the rest of the area had better be really good. I would love for a Court to hold that my actions constitute a nuisance because I would hold everybody else to the same precedent. The guy next door makes as much noise as I do, if not more, and he has had a piece of plywood in place of a window on the lower level because his previous tenant broke the window. Yeah, it would be fun to receive a complaint from my neighbors.

What is funny is that I received a letter earlier in the year accusing me of dumping my remodel waste in the Condo Association dumpster. Of course I didn't do that, especially since I have a truck and the dump is only 10 minutes away and free. I was pissed. I wrote the HOA management company a response and asked for evidence, and they said that the person who reported it must have had the wrong address and it happens a lot.

I HATE HOA's, but as far as mine is concerned, it hasn't been too bad. According to the Agreement, we aren't supposed to have satellite dishes, but almost everybody does. There is also a limitation on the number and size of pets, but people have broken this too.

At the end of the day, I prefer to be nice to everybody around me, but I can be mean if I have to.

[skeet]

What ?? A mean attorney?? Say it ain't so...say it ain't so!!! Fabs I don't think you have a mean bone in your body...well...... maybe that thick skull your daddy told me about. Really enjoyed meeting him.

[tjwatty]

Here's a good one for you guys.
On Tuesday we had a good day, we shot a mallard that went across the river to the dike. My son and another fella went after it, the blind in front of us shot at a duck, missed, then went to the dike. When my boys flushed the cripple into the river, they shot it(the other guys), grabbed it and went back. Needless to say I had a conversation with them at the dock the next AM. I just told them that if something like that ever happened again I would have to let the CPO know about their inability to distinguish canvasbacks from other ducks and their inability to count since I'm 250 yards away and saw them shoot 24 ducks on an 18 limit.

I love public hunting!!!!!!

[fabsroman]

I hate those bastards all the way around. Don't get me wrong, I hunt hard but I obey the laws. It wasn't always like that, but I was younger and wasn't taught otherwise.

In my profession, I see people trying to bend the rules and others that break them completely. I just wish we had enough law enforcement and IRS agents to inforce everything.

Okay, that is my rant on the shooting over the limit and shooting out of season.

Regarding the civility of the whole thing, that pisses me off too, just not as bad. I used to dove hunt with a group of my dad's and uncles friends. Those guys would call every bird as their own. I would shoot a bird, see it crumple, hear them fire, and then watch them go out and pick up the bird. They never even asked if I got it or not. If I were to knock down a bird without anybody else shooting and it was only clipped, these guys would keep it if they got to it before me, it tried to fly away, and they shot it.

Back then, it was fine with me because I got to shoot all day instead of just for a couple of hours and I didn't want to argue over a dove. Still don't want to argue over a dove, duck, or goose. I have thought about the scenario of arguing over a big buck and probably would call the game warden if there was an issue.

The game laws are a little grey on what counts as your bag limit. I have heard some game wardens say that wounded birds count, others say that downed birds count even if you cannot retrieve them, and still others say that only the ones reduced to your possession count. For instance, whose bag limit does that bird count toward? The person that knocked it down or the person that finished it off and took it home? I would guess the latter.

At the end of the day, I think everybody should offer the recovered game to the initial shooter and let the initial shooter decide if he/she wants it. To me, killing a wounded bird isn't sporty at all and it should be given back to the first shooter.

Now, what about a wounded buck? There is a ton of grey area here. Was the first shot a mortal shot, would the first shooter have been able to recover the buck if it weren't for the second shooter (i.e., would the buck have gone across the county before dying), for close were the two shooters to each other, how long could the buck have lived after the first shot? Believe it or not, there is actually case law on this in some states.

[swampdogg]

this was supposed to be in the thread about pet peeves with the manners section don't know how i got here. the wife says i shouldn't be allowed on the computer without adult supervision. i have to agree with everyone. i'm 34 yrs old and started hunting around 13. you don't find much in the way of manners on public or private ground. i hunt mostly public anymore if you desent to me i'll be the same and go out of my way to help if you need it. but if your an jacka** i'll most of the time walk away, guns and anger don't mix. i know i'll never do anything, but now a days people just don't think. about the killing part if i was to judge my succes by the number of kills i've made i pretty much suck. i'm there to see sunrises,sunsets andthe wonders of nature. now i sound like a greeting card. i'd rather hunt with a so-so hunter with manners and a good sense of humor than a world class hunter that doesn't know a hill of beans about manners. sorry i rambled on, but this is something i've been running into lately.

[fabsroman]

Well, at least it doesn't seem to be a problem only in Maryland. I think the manners issue is something that is a national/world issue in every respect. People just aren't what they used to be 30 years ago. Probably because parents just do not have the time to teach their kids manners in today's rat race.

[DelDuck]

Hey np about the post I'll see if I can move it over into that section for you. And I agree 100% with you, I would rather have a good day shooting the bull and no birdswith someone friendly and such then have an outstanding day killing a ton of birds with a rude jerk.

And Fabs it is not that they don't have the time, it is they don't wanna take the time.

[fabsroman]

That's correct Del. They would rather work so they can buy the Mercedes or million dollar home, instead of raising their children to be good people.