25-06

[rick savage]

have not seen the 25-06 mentioned. i have one in ruger m77 with a 6x18 glass. would not hunt long distance with anything else

[L. Cooper]

I suspect it is not talked about much because the bullets are all too light for extreme long range shooting.

[Lone Star]

If 80-grain .223" bullets can win matches at 1000 yards, then 110 to 120-grain .257 bullets can do well at beyond 500 yards. It is true that .257" bullets lack the very high BCs found in 6.5 mm and larger calibers, but the potential for long range shooting is certainly there.

The real reason that the .25-06 isn't spoken of much for very long range shooting is the same reason that the .30-06 is not - the long thin cases lack the ballistic consistency to do best at 600+ yards. Ballistic uniformity is essential or there will be a large vertical dispersion at long ranges. The .30-06 has been completely eclipsed for long range use by the .308. '06 rifles are not shot seriously in long range competition except at nostalga matches.

I've not shot a .25-06 at long range, but I have shot a .257 Weatherby at 600 yards on targets. (Shooting rocks at long range is fun but it shows little about the accuracy potential of the rifle.) I have a target somewhere with a 5-shot group fired at 600 yards of 6.0" fired with Nosler 100-grain Ballistic TIps. That was on a calm day with minimal mirrage off a bipod. The rifle normally shoots 0.75 moa at 100 yards.

Best long range .257" bullets:

Nosler 115 BTip - .453 BC
Speer 120 SPBT - .435
Sierra 115 BTSP - .410
Sierra 100 MKing - .394
Hornady 117 SST - .390

.

["yote"]

Drop the Ruger action. They are junk. Had 4 of them and they were all nothing but problems. People who shoot know what I'm talking about. NUFF SAID !!

If you want to shoot at long range, move up to 6.5 mm.
check out what a 6.5/ 06 can do. Or even a 6.5/308.
G David Tubb has won many National Match titles with this round!!

[rick savage]

i am not a match shooter, i am a hunter and have been shooting rugers for 35 years with no problems. killed everything i needed.i am shooting the 25-06 now and you don;t get many shots longer than 3or 4 hundred yards at real game. yote i don;t know if you got up on the wrong side of the bed or what, but chill out! there is rugers,rem., win. and so on, differnt strokes for differnt people there is good and bad in all. and as for as 45 long colt for hogs i do it for a living and it is plenty.

[L. Cooper]

Target shooting does not need retained energy at extreme range. Hunting does.

For hunting at extreme ranges, bullet weight is a crucial factor. Light bullets can be just as accurate as heavy ones, but to have enough energy left at 700 yards to kill humanely, I believe calibers have to be big enough to shoot heavy bullets.

According to the Nosler Manual #4, a .25 cal. Ballistic Tip started at (generous for .25-06 and that weight) 3400 fps will have 903 foot pounds of energy left at 600 yards. The charts don't go beyond that. A .30 cal. 180 grain BT started at a chronographed 3140 fps from my .300 Win has, according to the same manual, almost exactly 1700 foot pounds of energy left at 600 yards.

While the accuracy to hunt game at long range is not a matter of bullet weight, the ability to kill things at long range is. Light bullets are not really good for hunting at extreme long range because they do not have enough mass to retain energy necessary to kill humanely at extreme range.

[fabsroman]

Okay, I have several rifles (i.e., .220 Swift, .270 Win, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag), but am debating buying a .25-06 because I don't like the .270 Win (i.e., extremely old Rem. 700) and I really don't like the .30-06 (i.e., extremely old Savage 110). The other two guns are both Rugers. Anyway, I would like to get all my hunting done between the .220 Swift, the .300 Win Mag, and a new .25-06, all of which will be Rugers.

Most of my big game hunting is on whitetail deer, and I was planning on using the .25-06 for this because of the reduced recoil compared to the .300. My big question is, how far could I humantely kill a decent size whitetail with the .25-06 because some shots could possibly be way out there. I killed two last season at about 250.

Where would the effectiveness of the .25-06 cut out and the .300 Win take over (i.e., where would one animal be killed slower than the other).

Likewise, I plan on using the .25-06 on varmints, which will mostly consist of groundhogs. Where does the effectiveness of the .220 Swift cut out and the .25-06 take over? No sense to me in burning more powder to get the same effect on a groundhog.

[L. Cooper]

My take on it, fabsorman, is relatively simple because I do not shoot at anything approaching the long ranges of 500 yards and beyond, and I'm not sure if you are determined to do so. Distances like that require bench rest steady holding, exact distance measurement, wind doping, and actual shooting not just calculations to determine the trajectory of your rounds. I can't and don't do those things when I'm hunting. I also see myself as more of a hunter than a sniper. Therefore, my longest shots are less than 400 yards; 95% < 300; probably 80% <150.

For me the Swift would always get used for varmints; the .25-06 (with heavy bullets for calliber) would be my deer round; and the .300 would be for game larger than deer. I would take any shot that presented itself with them within my hunting ranges.

I know energy is not a truly reliable indicator of killing potential, but energy levels must be there for reliable, humane dispatching of big game. For many years many people have simply accepted the idea that 1000 foot pounds would provide that power for deer sized game. While there are many times when somewhat less will work, I accept that number as the basis for my own calculations on the suitability of a cartridge/rifle combination.

Have a look at the charts. If you can deliver that level of energy AT THE TARGET, I don't think anyone would debate whether the round was suitable at that range. Varmint hunting does not require those levels at all, and the relatively small targets make things like low recoil, accuracy, and flat trajectory become very important. For game bigger than deer, less accuracy is needed, but deep penetration and even more pure energy become crucial. They are all judgment calls.

I really dislike suffering whether it is my own or some other animal's. So I tend to err on the side of being certain I am using enough gun, and that I can put the bullet where it needs to go.

[rick savage]

l. cooper good response. 98% of my deer are shot at 1 to 200 yrds, i know the 25-06 will shot farther because i have bench shot the gun. a good clean shot is the name of the game, thanks for info

[Skyline]

fabsroman............... the .25-06 is a great cartridge, I like it a lot. With the new bullets, such as the 100 and 115 grain Barnes TSX and the 110 Nosler Accubond it can do a lot with light to medium sized big game.

I have used it to take Mule deer, whitetail, elk, moose, black bear, etc. No I do not recommend it for elk or moose. I was deer hunting and had it in my hands along with a tag each time. But, with a good bullet and proper shot placement it will do the job.

For deer I would not hesitate to use it out to about 350 or 400 yards, as I have done so a number of times. Even on these big Canadian whitetails and mule deer they never went more than a few yards if they didn't drop in their tracks.

As for varmints. Well I usually use a .222 Rem. When the distance gets past 200 yards on coyotes and such, or the wind gets blowing, I switch to the .25-06. I use the same TSX and Nosler bullets. Little hide damage and good practice with the big game loads. I wouldn't use it on small stuff like marmots.....too expensive, but I have used the 87 grain Sierras in the past for that and they worked well.

I like the .25-06. It kills really well, ever bit as good as a .270, and I have killed a lot of game with it as well over the years.

For real long range work in a .25 check out Wildcat Bullets. The owner produces .25 grain bullets up to 150 grains and these are LONG bullets.

[Drew_CarreyAB]

A little off topic but, Fabs, I am thinking of a 300 Winny.......What kind of recoil can I expect? I know it would kick but can you extrapolate(sp) the biggest round I've fired is a 225gr (I think) out of a 338 mag, or a 460gr with 3 pellets outta a 50 cal MZ.....is either one close to the recoil of the 300 win?? Thanks........sorry if I hijacked the post, but I'll order either the 25-06 or the 300Winny by the end of the week LOL need to work loads and get some (if any) range time(last 8 weeks I've had 4 days off).

[petey]

If you can handle a 225 gr 338 round, then the 300 win mag in the same gun firing even a 200 grain bullet will be a walk in the park :D... or lets say, A lot more confortable to shoot

[fabsroman]

Exactly what Petey said. However, with that said, I added weight to my .300 Win Mag to reduce the amount of felt recoil. I have a Ruger and it came with that horrible synthetic stock that was extremely light weight. So, I put a Hogue stock with full length bedding block and a Harris Bi-Pod on it. The extra weight has helped me deal with the recoil a lot better, and I actually have used the bipod a lot.

Then again, maybe shooting 3 1/2" magnums out of my 12 ga. has gotten me somewhat accustomed to heavy recoil.

[Drew_CarreyAB]

so then what you are saying is that a fella 6'1" 280+ (me LOL) should be ok with the felt recoil of the 300Win....I would like to use it for moose and long shots(when presented) at speedgoats. My only concern is that I hunt mixed landscape, some open country and bush(thick and thin), would the extra length of the rifle be a possible problem?(Forgot to add it would be for a T/C Encore) Now how would I add weight to the firearm to reduce the recoil?? I will be adding a Sims Labratory recoil pad on it when I order the bbl. Would a muzzlebrake be another option(I use earplugs at the range anyways, and then none in the field for the shot that counts)

[fabsroman]

Let's see, my height is 5' 9" and I weight 150 lbs. Based upon your description of yourself, you really shouldn't have any trouble shooting the .300 Win Mag. Then again, I have seen some big people with very low threshholds for pain.

As far as the length of the rifle is concerned, I have never taken the length of any hunting device into consideration because I have never, ever, had a problem getting them through the brush. My feeling on that is that if you are coordinated enough, the length of the gun or bow shouldn't matter. Heck, if you can get your body through a hole, you should be able to get that gun through the same spot.

[L. Cooper]

Drew.

Just some thoughts on this decision, and before I say this, I want to be clear that I have a .300 Win. and use it whenever I think its level of power might be useful.

To get the most of a magnum case you need at least 24 inches of barrel. In a full length action, the resulting gun is longer than I like. I do find long rifles to be more difficult to carry in heavy bush. But the ballistic advantages are sometimes worth the price. You pay less with a single shot action.

The .300 is very loud. I do not like to shoot it without hearing protection at all. When I'm hunting, I do not use protection, and I believe it is loud enough to be bad for me. Sometimes the ballistic advantages are worth it.

I would never put a muzzle brake on any rifle I will ever shoot without hearing protection. If the recoil is more than you can ignore without a muzzle brake (and the .300 Win in a light rifle approaches my limits of tolerance) don't use that round. Hearing is more important than the ballistic advantages. Besides, the ballistic advantages are not all that great for many applications. There is nothing you can do to an antelope that cannot be done with a .25-06, and done with much less hearing loss.

The moose, however, is another story. That is where I think the disadvantages of the .300 are worth the ballistic advantage, and I think you have hit the wall on the light bullet weights of rounds like the .25-06.

If you will really hunt moose often, your choice is made for you, but if moose hunting is really only a future possibility, I would not put up with all the fuss and bother of any of the magnum rounds.

[BILLY D.]

fabs

body mass is the story here. big guys tend to absorb all the recoil while us skinny guys just fly all over the place. our bodies don't have the mass to stop the recoil.

probably not a good way to explain the theory. it's the best i can do.

[Evan03]

220
22 250
2506
270
3006


these are my go to calibers. all in ruger rifles other than rem 700 270

they are all acuret with handloads and kill very well.

as to 2506. this has become my go rifle for most all my hunting and varmiting. i load 100gr nos bts as my all around varmit hunting load. even used it to take my deer this year at moderate range. range was just shy of 200yds. and was a one shot fall in yer tracks kinda deal.
i also play with 75gr vmaxes 90gr X and 75 gr sierras. im useing a mix batch of rl19 h4350 and imr4381 to run these bullets. always useing magnum primers..

the 220 i use on varmits coyote size and smaller same with 22/250.

the 270 is used very little now. the 3006 is for bigger game like elk and bear.

300yds is about as far is id take deer with the 2506. that would depend on what bullet and all

[Andy L]

I know Im way behind on this thread, but if anyone cares, heres my take....

I have a 25-06 and a 300 Win. Both are very good deer rifles. I struggled a bit with the 25-06 as far as performance of a deer bullet, I wont get into that, but when I went back to the KISS theory, its fantastic. For a light kicker, its one heck of a deer cartridge.

My old 300 Win has laid down a train car load of deer since I got it 20 yrs ago or so. Its a Ruger M77, the old style with the tang safety, wood stock. I have no idea how to count how many I have killed with it. Long shots, chip shots, bean fields or heavy brush, it will perform. I just feed it 150gr Core Lokts and let her eat. Unless you hit a bone, not much meat damage, kills em dead. I love it. All of it but the recoil. Now, I dont notice it in hunting situations, but 10 rounds off a bench is the most I have ever shot it at one time, and I was done. Glad it was sighted. Thats part of the reason I got the 25-06. The 300 comes out of the safe, gets fired 2-3 times to check the zero, does its job on whatever game Im after for a couple days to a couple weeks, gets cleaned and goes back in the safe til next year. Shes a workhorse for sure.

Kinda like your thinkin Fabs. But if we go on the big buck hunt together, I may pack the old 300 along. I know whatever I want to shoot, no matter the distance, is most likely dead with it. I havent quite got that confidence with the 25 yet. Maybe soon, but not yet. ;)

I got two safes in my room filled with rifles, growing every year. When I first got married, I had this 300 Win, a Marlin Semi-Auto 22lr and a Mossberg 500A 12ga 3". Im not too sure Im any better off now, as far as hunting goes, than I was when I got married. :cool:

JMHO

Andy