Accuracy Factors

[Dom]

In your experience what is the one thing that has the most effect on your quest for the best accuracy.

[Adam Helmer]

Dom,

Wie geht es Ihnen, mein Freund?

Good thread. I began reloading in 1962 and never quit. I found that differences in powder charges made the biggest difference on the way to finding accuracy loads with the primer and bullet kept constant. In later years, I tweeked it down to overall length for each specific arm and kept good records of my accuracy loads. I also kept records of the not-so-good loads to prevent reinventing the wheel.

Bis bald,

Adam

[Dom]

Gruss Adam, mir geht es gut.

You're exactly right on the money there in keeping records, otherwise after a period of time your memory turns to haze as you try and fit all the pieces of the puzzle back together for that promising load you shot 3 weeks or 3 months ago.

I've found out, well for me anyway, that the one major thing I can change to affect accuracy is the bullet. Once I have a promising bullet, then it's powder charges and primers.

There are those who shoot so they have an excuse to reload. I don't belong to that group. I don't mind reloading, but it is a time consuming hobby. I only reload so I can shoot.

Over the years there have been some great inventions, take for instance the Case Prep Station and the 1500 Combo Powder Measure/Scale. Now those are time savers !!

The biggest time saver I can think of is showing my Wifey how to reload for me, and then just telling her I need another hundred '06 or Hornets. Funny thing is, she didn't want to hear that. Oh, she'll watch me for a few minutes, then say she has 'work' to do . . . well, what does she think I'm doing down there wasting the evening or half a Saturday? Yea, I'll call reloading work.

Halt Dich munter, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[12GA guy]

No doubt the final ogive setback can make a difference on accuracy, but I don't look at it as a component as such. Choosing the right bullet in the first place will help with accuracy, thus I always liked a spitzer pointed boat-tail type bullet, like the Nosler Accubond, or the Nosle Ballistic Tip. Both have great B.C.'s

Overall the accuracy component is the perfect "powder charge" for your particular combination of components, and barrel. Doing work up loads, I have seen groupings get tighter and tighter, usually as I am reaching close to max powder charge. Sometimes, as the charge gets higher, I will notice the groupings start to spread again, so I know that I need to go a bit lighter, for the best accuracy. It's just a matter of "tuning your loads, for your particular gun.

So I chose powder charge as the best component.:)

[Adam Helmer]

12GAguy,

Welcome to the Forum. I agree with you that the perfect powder charge is the key component to accuracy. In both rilfes and handgun loads, the adjustments in powder charges gave me my accuracy loads while keeping the same bullet, case and primer constant.

Adam

[RUMLUVER]

I think powder selection has a great effect on accuracy.I have found while reloading for my Ultra Mags that switching powders gave me my best results after selecting the type of bullet I wanted to shoot. In the caser of my .300 RUM I choose to shoot the 180gr Swift Scirocco and tried RL22, RL 25, H870, H4831, IMR 4831,and Magnum from Ram Shot none of these powders provided what I wanted. I received a tip and tried IMR 7828 and never looked back. I loaded up 3 different charge wieghts and all grouped very good but one load worked the best and I got these results by switching to IMR 7828.

[12GA guy]

Thanks for the welcome Adam!

Looks like we are still not winning at the poll, but still a close second!:D

[Catfish]

This thread is really an effort in fullity. If yuor talking smooth bore then just keeping your ball as round as possible is about all you can do. With rifled barrels you first have to have a twist rate that will stablize the bullet weight, or to be more accurate, the lenth bullet your useing. By the time you get down to the effects of the primer, the powder and the lenth of jump to the lands you have already passed some many factors that are so much more important that you are now down to final tunning.

["yote"]

All of the above !!!

[royinidaho]

I voted for the case as I figured no one else wood:rolleyes:

Around my house it works this way.

First the case is selected. Usually W-W are picked as they have more powder room.

Then the bullet is selected

Followed by the powder and a primer.

Powder is adjusted until best groups are achieved. If velocity and group size are in the ball park I go to the next step. If not I change powders.

After group size is ball park at the desired velocity lever.

Then the best primer for group improvement selected.

Next is sorting of bullets first by length of bearing surface and weight.

Then COL is adjusted.

As I'm doing all of the above I'm determining drops at distances beyond 800 yds or so.

Now the load is worked up and the drop chart is close enough to hit something out towards 1K.

and finally, after all of that, its time to replace or rechamber the barrel as it's pretty much worn out. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Just kiddin' on the worn out part.

[Adam Helmer]

royinidaho,

Why did you vote for the case? Later in your post you advised about powder: "is adjusted until best groups are achieved." Isn't the proper "accuracy" powder charge the key accuracy factor here?

My Match Garand loves 49.5 grains of IMR4895 and a 150 Hornady spitzer bullet. I can use the same case, primer and bullet and put in 10 or 15 grains of IMR4895 and the results would be nil. Walla, the proper powder charge gets me to the X-ring with the same case, primer and bullet. What is the accuracy factor here? The proper powder charge, of course. The cartridge case is not a key factor in my opinion if you do not get the projectile to the proper velocity.

Adam

[royinidaho]

Adam,

The case response was a bit cheeky. Like I said, no one else would vote for it.

I purchase bunches of cases Winchester as I mentioned as they are llighter than REMs. I then sort to the lightest of them. I do nothing else to them until I see "flyers" appear in groups. I mark those cases. If they are repeat offenders they are discarded. As a last resort, and only if I have a "tight" necked chamber to I neck ream or turn them.

IThe overall process is all in how one looks at it.

I have two criteria accuracy and maximum velocity. One without the other is pretty much useless to me.

The powder makes the biggest difference but not all the difference. Example is the 270 Win that I rebarreled. The only powder that achieved the desired velocity with reasonable pressure was RL-22. However I could get it shooting no better than 3/4 MOA @ 100. I went through all the variables of powder, bullet and seating depth and it would get no better. Switched from FED 215s to CCI-200s, changing nothing else group size dropped down to the 1s and 2s with equal velocity to the Fed 215s.

Next was a 338 Win. Bullet selection was limited to anything weighing 250 grains. I figured that if I had to shoot a 225gr bullet I ought to be shooting it in a 30 cal.

I figured SMKs would be the ticket. Again RL-22 gave best velocities but only 1.5 MOA groups. Unsatisfactory! Tried different primers, different seating depth, etc with no improvement.

Switched to Sierra 250 Game Kings and groups droped to just a little over 1/4 MOA @ 200 yds. Then tried some Wildcat 252s and groups dropped to right at 1/4 moa. But a little improvement here is a lot.

What I'm attemting to get at is that I feel that the powder will get one real close but to get spot on it will be one of the other components or techniques that makes the grade.

I may a bit out on the edge as my targets are by design and desire well beyond 500 yds. It takes that amount of fine tuning to make the hunts successful. A 600yd or beyond coyote or even a deer or elk is a pretty small target.

[Adam Helmer]

roy,

I liked your "cheeky" reply. LOL. Apparently you are an advanced reloader and accuracy buff, much like myself. I agree that the proper powder charge gets one close to the desired accuracy. I then tweek overall length and change bullets, if needed. I do not get many chances at 600 yard coyotes here in the big woods of PA. Be well.

Adam

[royinidaho]

I'm originally from Butler Co. I have 4 brothers still there. Ever hear of Chip's kennels.?

Long shots on chucks were on one farm only. Maybe 300 yds plus. In those days Dad shot'em with open sights.

Look for a pipe line or power rightofway. You'll probably never see anything :rolleyes: but dreamin' if half of it any way.:D :D

I'm having a rifle built, should be here any day, specifically disigned for yotes beyond 600 yds. They are shot at by so many that they can be called in to about 600 at several places. The rifle will be sufficient for deer also.

[RUMLUVER]

Roy,

What rifle is this that you are speaking of? Do tell more and by the way how is your .338 RUM project going?

[temmi]

While I believe the bullet is the primary / greatest contributor to an accurate load… I find it difficult to separate bullet from Charge weight… So my vote for bullet should be married to Charge weight

[VirginiaHunter]

Grüße jeder, hoffe ich, daß alle gut füehlt.

I would say bullet, powder type, and powder grain wieght. I to keep detailed records and I worked up a data card for when I'm testing loads at the range to use as a quick ref along with my original load data back home. Here's a not so good example of the card I use at the range (I had to shrink it so it may come out a little fuzzy)

[VirginiaHunter]

I'm working on another data card that will have chrono data, and slots for case type, measurments, etc, just need to finish it, like a million and one other things.

[VirginiaHunter]

Ok how about this one, they fit 2 to a page (cut at the line between them ) and should fit into a small notebook (I use an old dayplanner type note book) I added case type, OAL, lot # (if you care to use that) Date of reload make, and MVfps, let me know what ya think.

[VirginiaHunter]

opps lets try again to post the pic sorry was still to big to post the full page with 2 of them on it, oh well technology

[Dom]

I like your idea Virginia Hunter and thanks for posting your target/info. In fact, I'm going to add some info onto my targets, as I make them myself.

Just a comment on the target itself, specifically the infamous 'bullseye'. I make my bullseye actually a diamond, then run the crosshairs through the corners. I like that much better than a circle. Of course, if you're using a #1 or circle crosshairs, that won't work, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[VirginiaHunter]

I have worked up a couple of other data cards with siloutes(sp) and different targets, see below, but I need to update the others with the additional info:

[Dom]

So, back after plenty of time to vote, the votes cast fall in line pretty nicely. Powder Charges and Bullets are key elements. Of course, you have to have Jupiter aligned with Mars to be a complete one ragged hole shooter :cool: I actually think you have to either pay extremely close attention to everything or else just get plain lucky. Thanks for voting, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

PS - Roy, thanks for voting for the Case! You win :D


Primer 1 - 1.72%
Different Powders 13 - 22.41%
Bullet 17 - 29.31%
Case 1 - 1.72%
Off the Lands, Ogive Adjustment 8 - 13.79%
Powder Charge Changes 18 - 31.03%

[dovehunter]

I couldn't decide whether to choose bullets or varying the powder charge as the biggest single influence. I voted for bullets (i.e. meaning different brands and/or weights) but I have found varying the powder charge seems to make nearly as big of a difference, at least based on my reloading experiences. Sometimes going to a different powder can make a big difference.

[mrmiskin]

I guess if you keep eveything else constant the powder charge would be the determining factor. It is true that different rifles of the same model like different loads. That is why reloading is so great you can mix and match and fine tune it and get them all to drive tacks. Some thing that wasnt mentioned but is a big factor in accuracy is your trigger pull. I never thought so until I did a trigger job on my muzzle loader. The difference is night and day.