.25 Souper ? for Rocky

[billy ahring]

I've been giving consideration to putting together Remington 700 in .25 Souper and was wondering what your thoughts are on it. If my memory is serving me correctly you wrote an article in Varmint Hunter magazine some time ago. At the time I was not interested in that round and did not really give it a good reading. Could you save me the time of going through every back issue and tell me which volume that article was in.

Do you still have your rifle in .25 Souper? And.....what are its finer points and what are its weakness's. What was it that led you to build a rifle of that persuasion.

I was just thinking it would be a neat round, very shootable for the young hunters in my family, yet very capable of doing the job.

Much gratitude in advance for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us Rocky, you are a credit to your kind.


Thanks,
Billy

[Martini25-308]

http://www.reloadingroom.com/page10.html

Here is the article.

I inherited my 25 and so far it has been a total joy to work up and play with. Easy to shoot for my 13 year old son.

After reading the article, you should see no reason for waiting to take on this project. I will tell you the dies are over $100, I necked down .260 Remingtom brass.

[Rocky Raab]

Yup, still have it and still love it. The only regret I have is using a Rem 788 action. While superb in cartridges of .223 case head size, the 788's rear locking lugs allow a lot more action spring with cartridges based on the 308 case size, due to added backthrust. So I get pressure signs like primer craters and hard bolt lift long before I would in a more conventional front-lug rifle.

If I started it today, I'd be looking for a used (maybe shot out) Rem 600, 700 or 7, or a short action Savage or Howa action in 22-250, 243 or 308. I'd know the cartridges would feed perfectly and all I'd eed would be a new barrel.

You might try Hornady or Redding for the dies if RCBS doesn't have any left. Frankly, I'd shop the dies first. Everything else including the reamer is simple.

Failing all that, look up dies for 250 Savage Ackley Improved, which is almost exactly the identical case shape and volume as a 25-308.

[kailua custom]

Not to butt in on Rocky but the 25 Souper [25/08] has been a favorite of mine for many years. One of the main reasons I like the Souper is the availability of REALLY good cases. Lapua etc make the best one can get! I, personally, like the Military L.C. N/M cases the best. They are virtually the same in weight, length and lend themselves beautifully to making the various wildcats based on the cases shorter than the `06. I even make cases for my 250 Savage and the 250 Ack Imp from them.
I think you will be very happy with the 25 Souper. Dies are fairly inexpensive from CH 4D dies. RCBS is Spendy! I still think the Souper is a good investment as once you have the dies everything else is pretty cheap! And it lasts a long time too.
Aloha, Mark

[wesattul]

I also have stumbled onto this little wildcat and I think you all have been to modest so far. It may not be the best thing since sliced bread but it is an amazingly useful cartridge. My one complaint has been the relative lack of load data. The newer powders give it even more versatility. I would like some opinions on my brainstorming. The 260 remington appears to be a twin to this cartridge in every way with the exception of .007 bullet diameter. If my math isn't screwed up, that's only three per cent difference! where bullet weights are equal or nearly so, wouldn't it reasonable to at least use that data as a starting load? I sure would like to hear from someone who has this stuff all worked out. My chronograph no.s really have me drooling so far.

[Rocky Raab]

That is a viable and smart approach. For equal bullet weights, the data is very close (given that no two rifles are the same anyway.)

Oddly though, there's very little overlap in the two as far as bullet weights are concerned. The light end of the 260 is at 120 grains and that's the heavy end of the 25-cal round. There's actually a lot more overlap with the 243 than the 260.

You can also look at data for the 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts. The 25-308 case capacity is very close to midway between them, and so are its loads.

In fact, I reduced 250 Savage max loads by 2% for my start loads, and I used 257 Roberts data reduced by 5% as my probable maxes.

That worked out pretty close. My actual max loads in many combinations were closer to Roberts "start" loads - but that's probably because my Rem 788 has those rear locking lugs. In a less springy action, I'm sure I could get farther into 257 Roberts territory.

I still love the round.

[wesattul]

I should have mentioned that Hodgdon's on- line load data show a load for the 95 grain .260 bullet that pairs up nicely with the 90 and 100 grainers in .25 cal. I have had some very good results with Hodgdon Benchmark and the sierra 100 gn gk's. The velocities are close to my 25-06 with the same bullet. The primers look unused except for the dimple in the middle. It seems that Benchmark and this cartridge really like each other. Action strength on my rifle is pretty good(sako L579) and SAAMI specs seem like reasonable guidelines for this rig. By the way, what should the case length be for this cartridge? The load manuals go all the way from 2.015(308) 2.045(243) and 2.035(7mm-08) I trimmed all my resized 7mm-08 brass to 2.030 and split the difference. The old rule about when all else fails, guess!

[wesattul]

One last note on the 25 souper. Anyone wanting another powder choice to try should look at Hodgdon's Benchmark. In the .260 rem data(Hodgdon's) a 95 gn bullet is shown at 3300+ w/ a 43.5 gn load of Benchmark. I tried 41.0 gns with a 100gn GK and it went through the chrono at an avg 3190 fps( 3 shots) with a toal dispersion of 16 fps. cases nearly fall out of my old sako with no sign of pressure at all. I'm ready to put it on paper and see what it groups!