Powder recommendations for .308 & .30/06

[Blktail]

I am looking for your advice on powder for reloading the .308 and .30/06
I use the guns for deer and moose and will be loading 150-180 grain bullets.

[Skyline]

Well..............IMR 4064, 4895, 4831, 4350 and RL 19 and 22.

[Blktail]

What makes a particular powder better than another?
Speed?
Lower pressure for a given speed?
Are some cleaner?
What about repeatability? Accuracy?

If you had to choose one powder for .30/06 180 grain bullets shot out of a Pre-'64 Model 70 featherlight, what would it be?

What about .308 with 165 grain bullets?

The Lee reloading manual lists a gazzillion powders. Based on the limited information in the manual, how do I choose wisely?

[Ol` Joe]

What makes a particular powder better than another?

I look for a powder that does a certain thing I`m wanting the cartridge to do. If I want to shoot a 180 gr bullet from my `06 at top velocity I choose a different powder than I would if I wanted to hunt for the best accuracy with a 150 gr bullet in the same cartridge.

As for your other questions I would try H4831 with the 180 gr bullet in the `06 and Varget or 4064 with the 165 in the 308.
Then again H4350 would likely do well in both...........but so would R19.
Ya just have to experiment.........sorry, but I doubt there is one "do it all" powder.

[Dom]

I look for acceptable accuracy, case not too hot or no signs of too much pressure, no unexpended powder after shooting, etc. I've settled on H4350 and 180 grainers, just because it works for me. I guess there is no coverall answer, you just have to try until you are satisfied, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[Rocky Raab]

It's a good question.

The absolute best powder can be hard to find. It has to generate the highest possible bullet velocity at below maximum pressures, burn cleanly and consistently, not fill the case too much or too little, and meter well through a dispenser.

But there's even more to it that that. The BEST powder would have a broad pressure curve and not "spike" its pressure peak, yet tail off in pressure just before the bullet leaves the muzzle. It would not erode the rifle's throat either mechanically or thermally. It would leave little fouling and no unburned particles in the bore. It would not create a huge muzzle flash or boom. It would not degrade in storage either before or after being loaded into cartridges. Finally, and not the least important, it would be easy to manufacture so that every batch performed the same.

Making the whole thing even more complicated is the fact that EVERY rifle is different, EVERY bullet is different and EVERY cartridge case is different. Finding the powder that shines with Brand A bullet, Brand B primer, Brand C brass in your own Brownugeremingester Model 777 rifle - at your altitude and in today's weather - well....

[Skinny Shooter]

VARGET works well for me using 150, 168 and 175grain bullets in a 308 with WLR and 210M primers.

[Adam Helmer]

Blktail,

I began using IMR4895 in 1962 in the .30-06 and .308 and have added H414 as my favorites for the 150 and 180 grain bullets. There are so many good powders now, I guess you just have to pick one or two and then work up your accuracy loads.

Adam

[HPBTMTCH]

Best luck with varget in the .308, and IMR 4350 in the `06.

[Gil Martin]

My preferences are IMR4895 and IMR4350 in the .30-06. When loading for the .308, I use IMR4064. I would recommend trying different powders and see what works best in your rifles. All the best...
Gil

[Jack]

AA 2520 is good powder for 308. Pretty good in the 30-06, too.
H414 is a good choice in 30-06.

[Mike Moss]

When hunting with the 308 I just use 150 gr bullets. If I want a different bullet I use a different cartridge not that the 308 is not good with other weights.

To date I find that IMR 3031 best in the 308 with RL 10 looking good so far.

In the 30-06 with 150 thru 180 gr bullets I like IMR 4350 the best.

[Blktail]

I have settled on IMR 4350 and H335. I got some 180 grain Speer Magtips for the .30/06. I have not decided on a bullet weight for the .308 yet. Maybe I will have to get more than one.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for all the comments. They were a big help.

[kutenay]

I have used those two powders very extensively in a variety of both .30-06 and .308 chambered rifles. I currently have four '.06 and two .308 rifles since I sold several rifles this past year; I am now using H-4350 in the .06s and RE-15 in my .308s with excellent results. This is because these powders are less temperature sensitive than some of the others mentioned.

My P-64 FWT will consistently shoot .5" at 100M with IMR-4350-57grs., CCI 250s, Fed. nickle brass and gives 2760 av. mv. My Browning Safari Grade does only .75" with this load as does my Brno-ZG-47 with the longer barrel, bnoth in untouched factory stocks. My original Mannlicher-Schoenauer does an easy half-inch with 2725 out of it's 20" tube.....what more can you ask for and these are all 180 NPs, my choice as the "best" bullet in the '.06.

[Blktail]

Kutenay

Where did you get your load data for the 57 gr of 4350 with a 180 gr bullet.
My manual indicates a max load of 53 gr with a 180 gr jacketed bullet.
I would love to get that velocity with a 180 gr bullet. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[Ol` Joe]

Originally posted by Blktail
Kutenay

Where did you get your load data for the 57 gr of 4350 with a 180 gr bullet.
My manual indicates a max load of 53 gr with a 180 gr jacketed bullet.
I would love to get that velocity with a 180 gr bullet. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Nosler lists 55 gr of IMR4350 and Speer shows 58.0 gr of H4350 for 2756 and 2758 respectivly with 180 gr bullets. Speer used a 22" bbl and Nosler a 24".

NOTE THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT POWDERS LISTED, THEY AREN`T THE SAME! Accurate also manufactures AA4350 which is different yet. Be sure to have the proper data for the powder, the 4350s are very similar but are not the same!

[kutenay]

I have owned at least a dozen .30-06 rifles since 1967 as well as a half dozen .308s during that time. I worked up to the loads I posted and many guys I know use the 57-4350-180 recipe, this with either IMR or Hodgdon powders, some go a tad hotter with the latter.

I have never seen a BOLTACTION rifle in correct headspace that won't handle this load, but, each rifle is different and requires careful load development. Use your chronograph with your rifle and stop when you hit 2750 mv with 4350-180s, Hornadys go faster easier and Barnes and Swift A-Frames go slower; this is easy to do and unless you experience pressure indications, most 22" bbl'ed. '06 rifles will go 2800 mv with 180s....2700-2750 suits me.

Many .308s will nudge 2700 with 180s and a case full of 4350 or 4831, I have done this lots of times, but, I prefer H-335, H-414, W-760, IMR-4064 and especially RE-15 for close to the same velocities with far less blast.

If, you do not have/use a chronograph, I would NOT go above listed max. loads in the latest manuals with ANY rifle/load; I have scads of manuals, old and new, but, I use Nosler and Hodgdon plus "Pet Loads" the most......hope this helps you.

[Desert Fox]

I can't comment on .06 but I do own a 308 and my recipe for 168 grain bullet is 45 grain of BLC on Federal Match Brass ignited by Federal match primer. Average velocity 2680 fps. Excellent accuracy. For 155 grain Lapua Scenar, 44.8 grain Varget. Velocity according to my Pact Pro-Chronograph around 2875 fps. Outstanding accuracy.

[Downwindtracker2]

I have three loads that go over 2700 in three 30.06s. One I have uses a slow lot of IMR 4350 with 57.0gr that goes accurately and a fast 2775,but I would say it's a bit too robust. I use it for hunting only. Better loads are H-4350 55.8 and N-560 61.3,both do 2740.I haven't used it ,but I keep hearing about 61+ of RL 22 for 2800.

[kutenay]

Yeah, Ray (DWT) I heard that too, so, I loaded a bunch of NPs in my rifles and headed out to Mission, hot and excited; I used both a Chrony and an Oehler 35P and averaged about 2680. This was about four years back, not long before I met you out there and I tried two different lots of RE-22.

About the late '80s, I kept hearing all sorts of wonderful things about the 180 NP in the '06 and the 250 NP in the .338 over H-4831. I experimented until my shoulder was beat to a frazzle and NEVER got over 2660 with top loads in either, far below Nosler Manual specs and you know how many rifles I have to play with!

So, I still gotta go with H-4350 overall, but, RE-19 has done well for some of my buddies; as you know, these RE slower powders can be a tad "spikey" and too temperature sensitive, but, can really perform if the loads are built with that in mind.

Maybe Sunday next at Mission?????, if the H20 is not pouring out of the sky?

[Downwindtracker2]

For the 308,Steve has gone back to RL-15 after a trial of Varget for his precision rifle.He would have to buy a Lee powder measure if wants to try IMR4064.I use the old target load of 51.6 of IMR 4064 and a 150 in my M-70 30-06,I'm not sure I would go beyond that,even if it only goes 2800.I use to say IMR4350 burned more consistantly than my H-4350,but the last lot of IMR 4350 is as slow and as inconsistant.I guess it's just the lot #.These velocities are with 22" factory barrels.

RL-19 has given me tiny groups at starting loads.180 30-06,but I was looking for a hunting load.

The range is closed this weekend and next for work bees,you coming?

[Mike Moss]

Both the Dupont and IMR handloaders guides show 57 grs of IMR 4350 as maximum for the 30-06 and 180 gr bullets.

The velocity is 2750 fps.

I have used loads like that for years and done well even with military brass!

Presently I shot 58 grs pushing the 178 gr AMax out of my Ruger #1.

I never got consistant accuracy from 30-06 sporters as good as Kutenay gets. Perhaps he is a better shot than I am and has better guns. Most of my 30-06 sporters shoot 1" at 100 yds if I am lucky with 1.25" normal.

[Downwindtracker2]

I shoot off of sandbags front and back,with sandbags behind the butt.No sense getting beat up.

I think the biggest things that get in the way are primer lots and the powder lots. Since I shoot a same practice load,165BTSP hornadys and enough IMR 4350 to go 2620.Three lot# used the same amount,the eight pound jug went 2gr more and opened up to 1" groups.This lot# of Winchester primers are much better than the last lot#.

Since my M-70 and M-700 are push feed they are more accurate than Kutney's CRFs;)

[kutenay]

Hah, what bulltwaddle!!!! PFs are for pussies!!!!

As to my current .30-06 rifles, they are a minty P-64 Mod. 70 FWT, professionally pillar-bedded in a Pacific Research stock, wearing a Leupy 3.5x10x50, this rifle averages under a m.o.a. consistently and I have had it since '91. I found it in a Vancouver Is. gunshop for a fraction of it's value and grabbed it with great glee as any sane rifle "looney" would.

I have a nearly new Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, a MCA version made in 1971 wearing a Leupy 1.75x6 and it shoots just like the Mod. 70. I have not touched the bedding as this is a collectible, valuable piece, except to waterproof it, but, the other post-war MS carbine/rifle I have had were also tackdrivers, contrary to the popular belief among those who have never owned or shot one.

I have a 1956 vintage Brno ZG-47 long barrel and a Browning Safari made in '61, both in nearly new, untouched condition and they give a tad over an inch with 4x Zeiss or 4x Leupy. I had another stone-mint short barrel ZG-47 that shot under an inch and a number of well-used P-65 STD. s that would do as well.

These are all very well made rifles and this shows in both their consistent accuracy and flawless function. None of them are now easy to find or inexpensive, but, the value is there and a person can depend on these rifles under the worst conditions, performance is what counts to me.

[Cal Sibley]

My .308Win. is a Browning Micromedallion which has a 1 in 12" pencil thin, short barrel. I do best with the lighter bullets like the Nosler 125gr. Bal.Tip. It's also quite accurate with the Sierra 150gr. HPBT. The 168gr. bullets are marginal in this rifle and the 180s are out of the question. I can usually get slightly under 1 inch with the Sierra 168HPBT and 42.2grs. of Varget which comes in around .85" (5 at 100yds.). It's really a tradeoff as this rile only weighs 6.2lbs. This light rascal has a potent kick to it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[bulletpusher]

In a word

VARGET

If you will check your loading tables in almost all of the loading books available you will see that Varget is listed on alot of the cartridges.

I've tried it in .30-06, .308, .25-06, .270 & .45-70. It seems to work very well in almost every thing that I've tried it in and is listed for a multitude of others.

In my opinion it may not be the best universal application powder, but it sure seems to be.

Just food (powder) for thought.

Bulletpusher