.223 Rem deer rifle???

[Big joe]

I was looking around at ammo at Sportsmans Warehouse the other day and ran across a box of .223 Rem. "deer" ammo. I think it was Federal brand. What do you think? Is a .223 Rem. ever a legit deer cartridge? If so, what loading and under what conditions? I'll tell you, I respect the Utah mule deer a little too much to ever squeeze off a .223 Rem round into one! What are your thoughts???

[Dom]

Big joe, I am also of the opinion that any .22 is too light for NA deer and should be on the books as .243 minimum. Is it legal to hunt Elk with a .22 cf? It's not a matter of seeing how small a caliber you can use to do the job, it's a matter of taking a shot with enough energy to effect a clean ethical kill. You don't always have the perfect broadside shot at 100m or under -- any marginal hit with a .22cf and see how far and if you ever find that deer.

Also, with hunting seasons and work schedules and families, how many times do you really get to sit out and hunt for that big buck, many times not seeing him, then you do get the upper hand on him but he's angled or in the brush, and you better pass on that marginal shot with a .22cf versus plowing a .30 caliber through and knowing he'll be down most times inside of 100 meters. JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

[L. Cooper]

The .223 is not appropriate for deer sized game.

The fact that something has been done is no proof that it should be.

[skb2706]

This subject comes up in almost every 'gun' forum there is. The debate rages on.
It would seem silly to me that anyone would use the absolute smallest cartridge legally possible to hunt deer with. But in some places deer are barely 50 lbs.....here in CO they average much larger...whole different animal.

[fabsroman]

I have yet to kill a deer that weighed anywhere close to 50 lbs. Sometimes while dragging them, I have wished they weighed that much.

I wouldn't use a .223 on any deer around here unless I was starving and that was the only gun/ammo that I had.

[Cobra]

223, no way on Deer. Thing is I can remember that the 22 Mag, that's right, 22 Mag was a legal Deer round in southern Michigan until the mid/late 60's. Dropped a 6pt that had 7 0f those darn little bullets of various ages in it.

[Duffy]

.223 never. .243 should be the absolute smallest, but the 30-caliber column is ideal, from .30-30 and .30/06 such as I have used, to .308, etc.

[Rocky Raab]

Big Joe, I'll explain that ammo this way...

If you had a friend who absolutely, positively vowed to run full tilt and head first into a concrete wall, you'd say, "At least wear a helmet!"

That Federal .223 load is like that. For the (insert applicable term here) who insists on using a .223 for deer, you can say, "At least use this Federal load!"

For the rest of you, here in Utah the minimum for deer (the last time I looked) was "a rifle of at least .22-caliber centerfire." The Utah DWR continues to use that language simply because there are so many (insert that same term here) who are too cheap to buy two rifles, and they insist on using their .22-250s for mulies. And then the DWR created language that allows even lower powered rifles. We have those "applicable tern" people in the DWR, too.

Legally, I could use my 22 Hornet here for deer. No - I wouldn't.

[skb2706]

Here in CO .24 cal is the minimum with ....I think 85 gr. bullet. I use a much heavier gun so I never gave it much thought.

[fabsroman]

Here is Maryland view on the rifle regs.

"Rifles used for deer hunting must use ammunition developing a muzzle energy of at least 1,200 foot pounds." Would most .22 centerfires fit into this category?

Seems as though they don't care about caliber, so long as the caliber can generate the required foot pounds.

[RUMLUVER]

I would never use a .22 caliber anything for hunting deer and in some instances I would also hesitate to to use the .243. I much perfer the .260 for deer than the .243 but there are thousands of deer that have been taken with one. I think the 100gr bullets are the right choice in a .243 for deer. As for me right now I am still using my .338 RUM for deer and that is just the ticket for whitetails around here.

[Trapper7]

A friend of mine went lion hunting with hounds. They treed a decent sized mountain lion. It took 3 good shots with a 223 to finally drop the cat out of the tree.

Since that episode, he now uses his 6mm with 85 grain bullets. It's much more lethal and kills much quicker, with one well placed shot.

[fabsroman]

Yeah, I don't think I would be using a .223 on a mountain lion. I don't even think it is a good round for killing a human being. Bet that is going to open a can of worms.

[HPBTMTCH]

This thread has been here a few times before, but it`s still interesting. Like i`ve said, the .223 will work, and using the right bullet i`ve taken 200 pound does with know problems at 300 yards. But these are under perfect conditions, from sandbags and broadside shots. I use a .223 is because the landowners don`t like noise, and the wildlife officer says that it`s either a .223 or buckshot, otherwise i would use a .308, which IMO is the best round for killing deer cleanly, and still having something left to eat. But then again rumluver, that`s not a bad choice either. :D

[Ridge Runner]

well the hundred or so I've taken with the 223 didn't seem to notice that I shot them with a rifle not capable of killing them,
C'MON GUYS, ITS ABOUT SHOT PLACEMENT! with the right bullet, proper shotplacement and they die just like you shot them with a 30/06. What else is a nosler partition for? yeah they don't leak mush blood out of a 22 cal hole, but on a classic double lunger most of the blood is blown out of the nose/mouth anyways. If you willing to wait for the proper shot, and your a good marksman, the 223 will get it done at least as well as the 6mm's.
On that once in a lifetime hunt for a giant northern buck, probably not the best, but it is adequate.
RR

[Rocky Raab]

See Big Joe? Like I said, there ARE people who insist on using a .223 for deer.

Guys like Ridge Runner are who that Federal ammo was made for.

And now you know.

[Ridge Runner]

I do want to add, the deer here are small, the 2 biggest bucks I've ever killed were 4.5yo deer, they both weighed 126# dressed. I wouldn't use a 223 on any of the northern deer, but they work here where the deer average about 100#, with the right bullet and proper shot placement.
RR

[shooterjon]

223 for deer! NOT don't care what they say bullet placement ,static shock and the hipe goes on.you should have a minimum of 1000 ft.pounds to 1500 ft pounds to be hunting deer and here in Idaho we can run across some decent size deer so the minimum I would go out with is a 243 with a 100 gr projectile!:p

[temmi]

...I was on a lease un West Texas (the deer are not giants) and have personally seen one member loose 2 deer to a .223 at 100 -150 yards. I know the deer will drop with a well placed shot… but if not there is not much of a blood trail…

[Mickey Rat]

I have a fried who's dad killed tons of deer with a 22 MAG. He was a carefull shot and over the years never lost one.

My brother used a 223 Browning single shot to take a medium sized deer (125 lb) with no problem.

In Alabama the 223 is legal. I don't agree. My son wanted to take a deer with his 223 and wouldn't change his mind, so I bought some Barnes 223 for deer loads. Thankfully, he reconcidered.

I agee that just because it CAN be done doesn't mean that it SHOULD be done. Special cases can be reconsidered. It is now legal for a legally blind person to use a laser sight and a partner to deer hunt. That's OK with me. Same as using a crossbow (my neighbor has MS and used a crossbow to get an antelope).

[Andy L]

Its legal here to use any centerfire. That means 17Rem, 204 Ruger, ect.... are legal. Smart? No. Legal yes.

22s arent big enough IMO, but alot of folks around here swear by the 22-250 as the end all round for everything....

[Brant Buster]

I killed tow Utah mule deer with the .223, and do not recommend the practice!

Why did I do it? It was the only riofle I had that season.



I agree that the .243's/6mm's ought to be the minimum legaL caliber for hunting any deer.

Shot placement may be key, but an appropriate amount of kinetic energy and guarenteed bullet upset can help A LOT if the bullet is a little off!

Nearly every hunter/shooter I know isn't a good enough shot to prevent cripples with a .223-class round. Myself included.

[Andy L]

I agree you shouldnt use 22s for deer. I disagree about being a law about it. We have enough laws..... JMHO

Andy

[dakotah]

Well if you are a veterinarian and the deer was tied up and you got within a couple of feet from its head and the deer was looking straight at you and you had a decent bullet that would penetrate the skull and...

[tooldummy]

I have owned several .223's, and still own 2. I haven't ever shot a deer with a .223 though. But in my opinion it just isn't enough gun for the job. I've seen deer run 75 yards or so after being shot in the heart with a 12 guage rifled slug. I feel that the minimum for deer would be a .243. With inexpensive guns such as the H & R single shot out there, if I were to plan an rifle deer hunt I would probably spring for a single shot in .243, .270 or maybe .308 and have enough gun.

[Oleman]

It's encouraging to see most people use good sense. Too many deer left dead in the woods and my State enacted a law that to hunt for deer you needed to use at least a .243. Statistics don't lie.

[gdaddybill]

What most of the adamant "no 22 caliber users" seem to be missing is that there is a new interest in long, heavy 22 caliber bullets pushed at relatively high speed that seem to do a good job on deer. The 224 tth seems to have re-ignited this interest even though the 22 HI Power has been around a long time with it's slightly larger bullet.

My choice was a 22-250 with a 1-9 twist. Took a doe several weeks ago with the new 62 grain Triple Shok and she did run 100 or so yards with a high lung shot but there was plenty of blood trail and a 50 cent size exit hole.

The same evening I used a 416 Remington Mag with 300 grain Northern Precision polytip (don't think Northern Precision is still in business) and H4895 (60% reduced load) to take large spike. Bullet entered at left front leg and exited from the left ribs--destroying vitals inbetween. Deer still went 40 yards on three legs and escape adrenalin. Actually found the deer before we found the blood trail though the blood was quite obvious--it started further back than we expected. Wasn't trying to prove anything with the 416--it is just very accurate and deserves to be used. I'm not sure where this leaves me in the caliber controversy so next week I'm taking a 300 Weatherby and a 44 mag.

[Riposte1]

The favorite cartridge of poachers around here (and we have a lot) is the .22 LR. Also I know a few fellows who take pride in killing deer with the .222 and .223. So yes, it will kill a deer.

I have killed one with a 5.56 but it was hardly a sporting context, I was testing ammo and gathering meat for a barbeque at a military site. Neither me or the deer was immediately impressed though she did finally become convinced that she was invited for dinner.

I would tend to agree with Rocky's description above and cannot do better. To be sure, placement is critical with any cartridge but I like to do all my hunting before I shoot.

Then again, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I never went Deep Sea fishing with a fly rod but I guess it could be done - if that is your bag, more power to you!

Riposte

[Common-senseEA]

the 223 is marginal for deer even though I have taken 3 deer and 6 hogs with the 223 and all the animals took only one shot. I reload the 75 grn hrdy bthp at 2900 fps bushmaster varm. with a 3x9 leupold. the most important aspect is shot placement with the 223, the larger calibers do give forgiveness in shot placement but then why would you take a "possible" shot in the first place. the bullet did break up when it entered the body cavity but did a very good job inside. most bullets did not exit therefore not as good of a blood trail. I would not use this round on anything larger than a middle of the run (#150lb) deer. but is a good round for the hunter that does not like the sound or kick of the larger cal. rifles. the 223 is a great beginner round for kids grad. from the 22lr. befor the 243.