Double Ball Loads in the .45 and .50 ML arms

[Adam Helmer]

Today I went to the backyard shooting bench with the hound and the .45 T/C Hawken flint rifle and .50 smooth barrel and engaged in pure research. Details below:

I shot 75 grains of 2F Goex and TWO patched roundballs in the .45 and at 65 yards both balls nearly touched on point of aim at the target. I noticed that the PA hunting regulations for the "Primitive Deer Season" after Christmas decree "Single Projectile" in the flinters for deer. Whatever.

The .50 smoothbore and 75 grains of 2F Goex and double patched ball did not hit the target at 65 yards from the bench! At 25 yards both balls hit 5 inches below point of aim. I need to do more research to see if rifling is a factor on point of aim-point of impact with double patched loads.

To be continued......

Adam

[quigleysharps4570]

Thanks for the report on that Adam. ;)

[roundball]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer
"...I shot 75 grains of 2F Goex and TWO patched roundballs in the .45 and at 65 yards both balls nearly touched on point of aim at the target..."

I only tried it at 50yds but had the same experience, shocked at how accurate the pair of .440 balls were out of a .45cal rifled barrel.

On a related note, I experimented with .62cal GM Flint smoothbore barrel and found using home made paper shot cups that 3 - .50cal/.490 balls printed groups of 3-4" at 40yds, and 4-5" at 50yds.....they stacked almost vertically inside the paper shot cup and probably accounted for their relatively tight group.

By contrast, when I tried 3 and then 4 smaller .440s, they stagger stacked in the shot cup so much that upon muzzle exit they headed off in different directions and averaged 18"" groups at 50yds.

[Adam Helmer]

A dear friend read this post and asked me via email why "A Single Projectile" for the PA Primitive (Flintlock after Christmas) deer season when two .45 caliber balls are better than one?

I can only direct the question to the PA Game Commission who in their wisdom decreed such a rule. Since two balls equates roughly to ONE Conical in weight, I do not see the problem with double balling a ML. I dunno, maybe this is just one more good lawwwrrr.

Perhaps if one is "doubled balled" it may be prudent to touch off the load before the "Bunny Cop" checks the hunter out.

Adam

[Adam Helmer]

Yesterday it was 98 degrees in the shade about my backyard bench. Old loyal hund and I took the .50 Hawken caplock and .54 Hawken flinter to the bench to further test the "double ball" factor at 75 yards in these arms.

Old dawg went 20 yards behind the bench to the shade of a pear tree whilst I did the research herewith described.

I tried 70, 75 and 80 grains of Goex 2F BP in both arms and double patched ball and 70, 75 and 80 grains of Pyrodex RS in the caplock and double ball with not anything good to report. In many cases I did have ONE hit on a smallbore bullseye target at 75 yards, but I did not see where the other ball got to?

I fired single patched balls in both arms with 75 grains of 2F Goex in the .54 flinter and 75 grains of RS Pyro in the .50 caplock and both hit just above point of aim at 75 yards.

I got out the .45 flinter and double balled it with 75 grains of 2F Goex and by damn, both balls hit just at point of aim at 75 yards! I then fired a single .45 ball and it made a "cloverleaf!"

If I do double ball, it will be in the .45 caliber only. Actually, that is where the heavier projectile weight is really needed. Anyway, the dawg liked the outing, Lori lay nearby as I water cleaned all bores and a good time was had by all. End of story.

Adam

[quigleysharps4570]

That oughta be the ticket with that .45 caliber. ;) Haven't tried it yet in my .50 Lyman. Been real hot and with working outside haven't felt like getting out in it when I get home. Maybe this weekend. ;)

[roundball]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer

I got out the .45 flinter and double balled it with 75 grains of 2F Goex and by damn, both balls hit just at point of aim at 75 yards! I then fired a single .45 ball and it made a "cloverleaf!"

If I do double ball, it will be in the .45 caliber only. Actually, that is where the heavier projectile weight is really needed.


Good range report...thanks:)

[quigleysharps4570]

Here's my report from this morning with double ball in the .50 caliber. Set the first target at 20 yards cause it's my average deer shot. At that distance it would put a bad hurt on one. Tried 80grs. of 2f Goex first...then 90grs. for the second shot. Moved back to 40yds. and wasn't impressed. They start flying wild out there. I think in the morning I'll use a felt wad between powder/ball and ball to see what happens.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/quigleysharps4570/scan0001-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/quigleysharps4570/scan0002-1.jpg

[roundball]

Well, it's hard for me to tell the amount of separation but even the 40yd shots only look like they're 3-4" apart...using multiple projectiles to get a little spread is actually what you'd want wouldn't you?

A couple different tears through the lungs, or maybe one through the heart and one through the lungs...seems having them close side by side would almost defeat the benefit of having multiple projectiles...

[quigleysharps4570]

You're right roundball...that spread would do alot of damage. I was wishing for one to be at point of aim I guess.

[roundball]

I experimented with multiple round balls out of a .62cal smoothbore one day, using a home made paper shot cup.

I first tried 4 - .440s but they had so much stagger-stack offset to each other in that big bore that when they exited the muzzle, they all pushed off into different directions...about 18" groups at 40yds.

BUT...using 3 larger .490s, they stood almost straight upright and clustered nice 4-5" group at 40yds.

[quigleysharps4570]

Here's one to make you wonder. Went out this morning and tried it again using an over powder felt wad and felt wad between patched balls. Didn't make any difference with the 2f Goex...but...looked what happened when I decided to try Goex Cartridge Grade powder...kept them together at 20 and 40 yards. Odd indeed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/quigleysharps4570/scan0004-1.jpg

[Adam Helmer]

quigley,

Good range report. I suppose each gun is different and maybe each firing sequence is also a variable. I liked the wad useage to see what would happen.

I agree with roundball, if we get two hits 5" or 6" apart at 50 yards or so, it should be devastating. Yes, it would be nice to have the double hits on or near point of aim.

Adam

[roundball]

"...tried it again using an over powder felt wad and felt wad between patched balls. Didn't make any difference with the 2f Goex...but...looked what happened when I decided to try Goex Cartridge Grade powder...kept them together at 20 and 40 yards. Odd indeed.


Very interesting...my guess is that the wads had nothing to do with it...the cartridge powder probably made the difference...is cartridge powder slower or faster than 2F?

[quigleysharps4570]

Originally posted by roundball
is cartridge powder slower or faster than 2F?

Just a shade faster.

[MacD37]

Originally posted by Adam Helmer

I can only direct the question to the PA Game Commission who in their wisdom decreed such a rule.

Perhaps if one is "doubled balled" it may be prudent to touch off the load before the "Bunny Cop" checks the hunter out.

Adam

......................AMAZEING Interesting thought process!:rolleyes:

[Adam Helmer]

MacD37,

What is amazing about the thought process?

First, I do not advocate breaking any game law. I have provided input to the PA Game Commission and there were LAW changes effected, to wit: the use of conical bullets in the Traditional Muzzleloader deer season that went into effect several years ago. Prior to the law change, only "patched roundball" was legal.

Now, IF a person has a "double ball load", and speaking hypothetically, the arm were discharged before it was determined the gun was, in fact, double balled, where is the evidence?

I find it odd, under current PA Game Law a 280 grain .45 caliber conical bullet is legal, but a double ball load weighing 260 grains would not be legal. Well, one can debate the point or "touch off" whatever load is in the .45 flinter and let the matter rest until more sensible regulations pass.

Keep posting as you do have good input here.

Adam