"Bullberry Woes" (long)

[wyt_tail]

Last December a friend of mine decided to have a custom barrel built for his Encore. He chose a .243AI and called Bullberry to order it. He wanted a 1 in 8" twist barrel to shoot bullets up to 105gr. but Fred at Bullberry said that he only made a 6mm barrel in 1 in 10" twiist but said that if he wasn't fully satisfied with this barrel, he would refund his money!

Well 6 Months later the barrel arrives! My buddy has loaded some fireform loads for it but finds out after he starts shooting that the barrel marked .243 Improved is really a .243 Win!!! He calls Fred and Fred says that he is sorry for the mistake and adds that he is only human. Now I believe that this is true and I am sure it was a mistake.

He instructs my buddy to send the barrel back with 3 fired cases to check and after checking, he will rechamber the barrel to a .243AI. Now, I am thinking and mention it to my freind that this is impossible without a barrel set back. I give my friend the dimensions of both the parent .243 Win case and the .243AI. I tell him that if this is done without a setback, it will have a step in the shoulder and the headspace will be incorrect!

After a few weeks, the barrel comes back rechambered. The only problem now is that Fred forgot to re-install the extractor!!!! He calls Fred and fred promises to get him one out in the mail asap!!

About a week and a half later the extractor arrives and my freind installs it and heads out to the range. At the range he finds out that his new chamber has a step in the shoulder!!!!

He calls Fred back and tells him of his problems. Fred says to send it back as he forgot to check the chamber after he re-chambered the barrel! He then says that he didn't run the reamer down far enough and will correct it after my buddy sends the barrel back! My freind says to Fred that he would much rather that Fred just make him a new barrel as he was the one who messed it up in the first place!!!! Fred says that he will send a few cases back to him to inspect and if the look good to my buddy will just send the rechambered barrel back to him.

From what I had read and heard so much about Bullberry being one of the best Encore barrels out there, I would never send them my bussiness. There is no way to re-chamber a parent case to an AI configuration without setting the barrel back and in an Encore that is just about impossible as the barrel lug would have to be removed. Granted you can run a reamer farther up the chamber but it will not be a true AI configuration.

Anyone else have these porblems with Bullberry?

[gd357]

Hmmm... I've only ordered one barrel from them, but the only problem I had was it took them a little longer than expected for them to complete my order. As far as quality of product, I've got no complaints, but that kind of issue would certainly raise eyebrows.

gd

[jmarriott]

I have 2 bullberry barrels in the contender collection. One a .22 Match and One is a 7mm TCU. Both were purchased second hand and have the fore end system.

Never had a issue with either but the .22 match is very picky on what it likes to shoot. With rem target standard vel it is a tack driver. with peters high velocity it opens up a bit and bargan basment 22's just shoot ok.

[Catfish]

I`ve got 3 Bullberry barrels. A .17 AH, a .17-223 and a .357 max. The .17 AH and the .357 max are both tack drivers. The .17-223 shoots ok but reall haven`t spent enough time to find a real good load for it.

[Rocky Raab]

Never a problem for me, either. I've had several that I got used, four that I had on "writer's loan" and ordered another that I bought at full price.

What you describe is a horror story, but I'd say is highly atypical.

Oh, jmarriott - .22 Match barrels are designed to shoot Match ammo. It should be no surprise that yours pukes on cheap stuff.

[Andy L]

I have a 22 with a match bbl. Its the same way. I went thru hundreds of dollars worth of ammo to find the one it wanted. Eley Match Plus Extra. Nothing else I found will do. It will shoot it though...

Went thru all that, had it pillar bedded, trigger job and a bunch of other work. One match and my buddies that were beating me, wont shoot with me anymore. :D

Guess that makes me, THE WINNER!!
:D

Andy

[Rapier]

I have seen many Bulberry barrels on the range in practice and in match competition. They put out a good product and more importantly have always stood behind the product.

It sounds to me like a problem that really does not exist. Yep, mistakes, and yes aggrivating, but..... This is a wildcat round, it should be fire formed for the chamber and neck sized anyway. If the case body is slightly longer than every other 243 AI, who cares? You ain't going to be swapping ammo or buying the stuff off the shel in any case. That is why Fred appears to be trying the patience, if he re-does the entire barrel, you end up at the exact same place.

After the chamber is recut, just have your buddy reduce the load, and set the bullets out to engage if he has problems with headspace for fire forming. He can also wipe the case with case lube and fireform, he will be in good shape on the first firing.
Ed


Now if the twist will not work, well, Fred might have to get out his toad sticker anhd wrap it in rice paper.... adios Fred :D

[wyt_tail]

That is why Fred appears to be trying the patience, if he re-does the entire barrel, you end up at the exact same place.

I don't understand? If he does make a new barrel, my buddy ends up with a real Ackley round and the barrel he should have received as he was the one who trusted Fred to build him the barrel he did order. Again, we all make mistakes but if you pay top dollar for a product, shouldn't you receive exactly what you bought? Even with new cars there are lemmon laws.

Granted the case will be longer than the original AI configuratin but then you must start adjusting dies and will never be able to set the resizing die down to the shell holder to bump the shoulder back as is needed after a few firings.

It might just be me but if I pay for something, I want what I pay for and not some second as this barrel is. How can you mark a barrel (usually they are marked after chambering) in the right caliber and chamber it in the wrong cartridge? I have bought barrels from EABCO and they test fire and send you the new barrel with a fireformed case to show that it has been test fired. To me that shows that you double check your work. Fred sent out this barrel 2 times now without checking anything! Not to mention missing parts with the second turn around. Is this a guy you would actually trust to build you a custom barrel?

Bottom line is if Fred really takes his business seriousy, he would stand behind his products and just make the new barrel that this guy wanted in the first place.

[Rapier]

This is a cat. So it does not really have standard specs, die settings, etc., unless you or I try to fix a set guideline. Now you do have dies that you can buy off the shelf, but that is marketing. I doubt that the setback of the shoulder will create a situation where the dies are unusable, could happen, but doubt it.

Actually, if the body is longer, the shoulder is easier to "bump" with the die, a process I do not subscribe to or endorse, by the way. You might not be able to size the base, but that should not be a problem. Neck sizing, only requires 1/2 the the diameter of the bullet in length. So you have over .100 before the shoulder is touched. A .100 setback of the shoulder in the chamber would be huge.

By the by, Eben Brown uses or used Bulberry barrels for many years. Actually since about a year after he bought the BF company from Bert Stringfellow. The first BFs were made with Douglas barrels. I have owned a few BFs. Eben is a bit fancier these days, since he moved out of his basement, he calls hisself E. Arthur Brown... More befitting a Yankee gunmaker from Minisotaaa, don't ya know :D
Ed

[wyt_tail]

Actually, I always heard that Eben used Virgin Valley barrels until they closed shop. He now claims that he makes his own. I do know he stamps his barrels as his too. I don't think he would be able to do that if he did use someone elses barrel blanks as there could be liability issue. I also use SSK and those barrels are Shilen. I think the SSK barrel is my best shooting barrel but Ebens' are a close second.

But as I said above, if you paid $485.00 for a barrel, I don't think you would want a second. The .243AI, although is a cat, still has Non-SAMMI specs as you can buy dies from Hornady, RCBS, Redding, etc and still have the same headspace and same die dimensions. Using a set of normal .243AI dies and bumping back the shoulder too far will give the cases improper headspace. This will happen if the reamer is pushed farther into the old chamber to clean it up. I would say it has to be pushed up at least .045" farther to clean it up.

Don't want to get to the point where I am dogging Fred but if he cared about his customers, he would just make a new barrel. The only other thing that can be done with this barrel is to make it into another cat that has a bigger chamber like a 6mm Ackley. Then you still have the barrel being stamped .243 Improved though. That would be a suggestion for my friend but he already bought the .243AI dies.

As mentioned, I just wanted to see if there were other people out there who run into this with Bullberry and although they lost me as a potential customer, not trying to tell anyone whom or where to buy their custom barrels. I just feel bad for my friend because he wanted to build a .243AI as I just did and we were planning on working on loads together and now it will be a different ball game that wasn't his fault.

[Andy L]

As far as the dies go, I only necksize my AIs anyway.... Makes more since to form them to the chamber since every chamber is different, or so it seems. I have seen bbls chambered by the same guy, with the same reamer and you can tell slight differences looking at the brass after fire forming. I dont know how full length sizing from dies that cant fit anyway could do any good?

Andy

[wyt_tail]

The point is if you paid your hard earned money for a product, shouldn't you get what you pay for? Would you accept a product that was messed up and still be charged the full amount for what you thought you ordered?

We have 2, 6.5-06's in the family that were built by Hart and both have the same chamber specs and we use one set of dies with no adjustments when using the same bullets. If you order dies from any manufacturer, they will be in the same specs with each die company. Even though the AIs don't fall under SAMMI specs, they still have the same case dimensions or they are not True Ackleys just a case with a 40 degree shoulder. I also have a buddy at work that has a .223AI and we both can used each others loaded round in our barrels. He has a Custom built Remington rifle and I have a T/C pistol.

I guess I am a person who wants what I ordered and not a refitted second. If I wanted a one of a kind case, I would just design it myself. The only other thing my friend can do now is send 3 fired cases to Hornady and have a custom set of dies made?????? That way he can bump the shoulder back when it is time to do that, I still don't see how you can only neck size without bumping back every so often??? I have 4 Ackleys and all need the shoulders bumped back at some time or another.

BTW, my project (.243AI) started with 3 fireformed cases from a friend in Idaho. Those cases match the fireformed cases from my EABCO barrel. Specs and the same.

[Brant Buster]

Wyt_Tail,

What you're saying sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You should indeed get what Fred & Co. "contracted" / advertised / promised he said he'd put out in a barrel!

I haven't bought any of his barrels yet, but have been interested in getting several (.223, .30-06, .257 Bob, .221 Fireball and others), unless the quality's gone to crap! Reading this thread and story, I wonder what was happening that someone was so distracted or incompetent. And since I want some custom Encore barrels, hope it was an isolated incident.

Still, any screw-ups by the company should fixed by the company!

ANY COMPANY regarding any product or service, actually - or find another competent company else where. ;)

[Andy L]

Sue Him!!

[wyt_tail]

Brant, SSK has a very quick turn around time. I had a .338-06 JDJ barrel ordered and it took 6 weeks from my sending the order in to the barrel comiing back to me with a set of custom Hornady dies (The dies are in stock). The barrel blanks are Shilen and are tack drivers.

Here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards with fireform rounds.
http://photos.imageevent.com/judeinpa/reloading/small/338065group_edited.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/judeinpa/reloading/small/3380603.jpg

Getting back to the .243AI, here is a group from my EABCO barrel at 100 yards.
http://photos.imageevent.com/judeinpa/reloading/small/2432group_edited.jpg

I will keep you posted on my Friends Bullberry barrel and see what Fred does next? From the last email I received from my friend, Fred just got it back yesterday.

[Brant Buster]

Wyt_Tail,

How do SSK's Encore prices compare to Fred's (Bullberry) prices?

Thanks!!



I wish you the best on this un-necessary adventure. :confused:

[wyt_tail]

Brant SSK charges $485.00 for up to a 26" barrel in S/S. I think they are a little cheaper when buying a barrel from 12" to 15" for handgun. I also added the T'SOB 6 screw scope mount (base and rings included) for an added $99.00.

T' SOB Base:
http://photos.imageevent.com/judeinpa/reloading/websize/3380604.jpg

Bullberry charges up to $429.00 for a barrel up to 26" in S/S. He also charges for certain calibers an added $80.00 in S/S. (Stainless in special calibers: .270, .321, .338, .357, .358, .375, .40, .41, .429, .416, .451)

[Brant Buster]

Thanks Wyt_Tail!