243 for my son

[Hunting_Gal]

my son is getting this youth combo
for hunting


http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/hunting/center_fire_rifles&start=10&selectedSKU=0345-03613-0243

[JimPic]

well good for him--i hope he kills a big buck with it!

[Hunting_Gal]

Hi J , glad you made it over

[JimPic]

Hi Gal,nice place you found here

[Hunting_Gal]

thanks j

[fabsroman]

Hey Jim, I don't know if this was your first post or not to this website, but Welcome to Huntchat just in case it is.

Hunting Gal, I don't have any experience with a Rossi or a .243 for that matter, but it is great to see that you are getting your son out with you to hunt. How old is he and how did you come to the decision to allow him to use a .243 at his age?

[JimPic]

thanks for the welcome,fabsroman.Real nice site you have here!

[L. Cooper]

I have seen many deer shot with a .243. The cartridge can do the job if the shot is a good one.

Be sure to stick with 100 grain bullets (my deer reloads all get 100 grain Nosler Partitions). The .243 is light for deer, but by using the heaviest bullets it becomes much more capable of handling those "awkward" shots that sometimes become the only shot.

[Hunting_Gal]

oh we use my 243 and we love it , i was just looking for a youth one for my son so i can have mine back lol
the only thing im not happy with it the rifle im looking at for son is not a bolt action :( and dont know if he can cock this rifle though

[Andy L]

My son used one for 5 sesaons, starting at age 7. It was a handi rifle youth 243. Much the same as the Rossi. It was great for him. He couldnt cock it for the first couple of years and I liked it like that. I had to do everything but aim and pull the trigger. Thats not all bad for a youngin.

As for bullets, 100gr would be better, but I had him using 80gr. Less recoil, and yes, you could feel a big difference. Especially on young shoulders. The compromise was taking only good shots and making sure he was confident shooting it. I would much rather have a kid shooting 80gr bullets with confidence than shooting 100gr and closing his eyes and flinching at the last moment. No question.

Thats up to you. He had 5 clean kills with the 80 gr bullets.

[fabsroman]

Andy,

Did he have any non-clean kills with the 80 gr. bullets? I just ask because saying that he had 5 clean kills doesn't answer the other half of that issue.

The first shotguns I ever used required the hammers to be cocked, and I didn't seem to have a problem with it once I was about 7 or 8 years old. Same goes for my brothers.

[Andy L]

Fabs,
Nope. 6 shots, 5 dead deer. 4 dropped in their tracks. 1 ran about 20 yards and keeled over. 1 clean miss. Longest shot was 150 yards exactly and the closest was approx 35 yards.

Good little gun.

Andy

[L. Cooper]

I want to emphasize my recommendation for heavier bullets. The 80 grain .243 bullets are not meant for deer. The .243 is a light caliber for the task; use heavy for caliber bullets.

If someone cannot handle the recoil levels of a .243 with 100 grain bullets (and the gun CAN be shot at the range for training with lighter ones to work up to full loads) then the hunter is too inexperienced to hunt deer.

While someone may have examples of success with inappropriate bullets, you do not want a new hunter having the experience that varmint style bullets may produce if the shot is not perfect.

Use enough gun.

(Hey, that's a pretty good line! Think it will catch on? Think I'll get the credit? ;) )

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Hunting_Gal
the only thing im not happy with it the rifle im looking at for son is not a bolt action :( and dont know if he can cock this rifle though

Even more important is whether or not he can safely DECOCK it in the event that he decides not to fire for some reason after it's cocked. Accidental discharges can and do occur when people unfamiliar with the procedure or lacking sufficient hand strength try to lower a hammer on a live round.

What is second nature to most of us is not necessarily self-evident to novices. Assume nothing. Assumptions are especially dangerous where firearms and novices are involved.

Not intended as a lecture, just sharing the benefit of teaching experience. I wish you and your son many, many rewarding hours in the field, whether it be the Hill Country or the Brush Country.

[fabsroman]

Aim to Maim,

You are spot on. My brother had a similar problem with the .410 we were using and he almost shot somebody in the leg. He was trying to cock the gun and the hammer slipped out from under his thumb, resulting in the gun going off. I have no idea what the adult was doing standing in front of my brother, but luckily my brother had the gun pointed at the ground and there was no harm done. That was a good lesson at a young age for he and I, and a good lesson for everybody involved. Always stand behind the shooter when the shooter is shooting clay pigeons.

Andy,

Didn't think there were any bad shots, but just figured I would throw my attorney hat on for a second.

L. Cooper,

I agree with you. 80's can be used at the range, and the heavier 100's can be used for hunting. Most flinches are developed at the range, and not while hunting. I know I never feel the recoil from my rifle or shotgun while hunting, but I feel it from target shooting. Heck, I can shoot a 12 ga. almost all day at clays, but one day of waterfowl hunting with 3 1/2" 12 ga/ shells and I used to wake up the next morning with a sore back. Never felt a thing while hunting though. Now, I use a recoil reducer on that gun.

[wrenchman]

I have a rossi combo gun 243 and muzzle loader and shot gun i bought it at cabelas my son loves to shoot the 243.
The report is quite loud from the short barrel.

[Andy L]

Damn, I must have dreamed the good results....

Ive been learning alot of stuff lately that Im not doing politically correctly. Its a real wonder Im still alive, let alone successful. Why, letting my son use bullets that arent suitable to kill deer with, what was I thinking? Musta got lucky.

:rolleyes:

[fabsroman]

Andy,

This all goes back to the debate of whether or not a .22 is enough gun to kill deer. Some think it is, others do not think it is. Since the .243 is only a step up, I am sure the debate will continue. Me, I wouldn't hesitate to let my kid use a .243 on deer, but I think I would subsitute the 80 gr. practice bullet with the 100 gr. bullet when shooting at deer.

I have seen deer killed with a .22-250 and even thought about using my .220 Swift on deer with Barnes XLC's loaded for the gun. However, I ended up thinking better of it since I have plenty of other rifles that are just fine for deer.

[Hunting_Gal]

I agree Aim to maim, about whether or not he can safely DECOCK it in the event that he decides not to fire for some reason , Thats why having a loooooong talk with my son, he will be using my 243 bolt action this year for hunting, and he does understand of my concerns.
He said hed share the 243 bolt action with me lol oh joy i have permission from my 9 year old to share the 243 lol WOOOOHOOOOO. lol:D

[Lycanthrope]

The 87 gr Hornady from a .243 anywhere in the front shoulder or 6 inches behind will fold a whitetail immediately. You'll ruin one shoulder with a bone shot and no exit hole, but they do the job for sure.

I shot a lot of does with that round in the 80's with a littel Remington 600. Very mild recoil too.

[Andy L]

I dont see the need to argue this anymore, but I do want to say one more thing.

Making the arguement comparing a 80gr 6mm to a 224 caliber is ridiculous. The 243 in question has much higher muzzle engergy and remains above the 900 threshold out past 300 yards. A 22-250 or 220 Swift with a factory 55gr ptd soft point has much less muzzle energy and goes below 900 short of 200 yards. There is no comparison.

As for the whole scenario about hunting with kids and cocking/decocking the single shots, I always kept it a very controlled scenario. This will the first season my son has been over a few feet away from me while hunting and normally sitting right beside me. The shots were only when dad said it was ok and until the last couple of years, cocked the gun for him. And, coached him with whispers about when to shoot, keep calm, where to aim, ect.... IF no shot was taken, I took the gun back and decocked myself. It has been a totally controlled situation. And, I think that is a good thing. We shall see. He is growing up and took his hunters safety course this year. He can hunt a limited amount on his own this year. I will start his little brother out with the same gun, same bullet, same method next year. I have every reason to believe his tutoring will go just as successful. Even with an inferior bullet.

He wont be hunting alone and he wont be taking any shots that are even questionable. Period. The only one his brother missed was when he was with his grandpa. He let him take a long shot. I never would have done that and neither will hunt with grandpa again. Not until they graduate my school first.

This whole argument is ridiculous.

Andy

[fabsroman]

Andy,

If you thought I was arguing in my last post, I wasn't. That post was just meant to say that sometimes people just do not agree on things, but they end up working for both of them. I love my .300 Win Mag on whitetails, others think it is too much gun. Others swear that the .270 Win is the perfect deer cartridge, and I have one of those too, but I just don't like it. Others swear by the .22 centerfire rounds. Personally, I wouldn't use one, but if those people have good results, so be it. Others swear by head shots, still others swear by neck shots. Me, I won't take either of those shots unless there is nowhere else to shoot at on the deer and I am starving or it is a neck shot and one heck of a buck.

I can go on and on, but I won't. If you say the .243 with 80 gr. bullets works for your son, I'll believe you. If my first kid is a boy, you can bet that I will be doing the same thing as you, but I'll just be using the 100 gr. bullets. Might even use a Barnes bullet that is a little lighter because they are made to be shot lighter. Who knows.

I don't argue about everything.

[Aim to maim]

Originally posted by Andy L

As for the whole scenario about hunting with kids and cocking/decocking the single shots, I always kept it a very controlled scenario. This will the first season my son has been over a few feet away from me while hunting and normally sitting right beside me. The shots were only when dad said it was ok and until the last couple of years, cocked the gun for him. And, coached him with whispers about when to shoot, keep calm, where to aim, ect.... IF no shot was taken, I took the gun back and decocked myself. It has been a totally controlled situation. And, I think that is a good thing.

Andy

It is indeed a good thing. I would have expected nothing less from you, having read many of your posts. I made my post because there are a WHOLE LOT of folks out there who are not nearly so conscientious or just don't know any better.

[Andy L]

Aim to Maim,
I agree and thanks for the kind words. I truely try.

Its like my dad. He took my oldest hunting once while I was working. My son came back all excited that he had missed a huge buck. My dad was snickering. I asked my son the details. My dad spoke up and said it was a long shot and he didnt have a rest. He thought it was funny. I didnt and told them both that. My son looked at my dad and said, "see I told you dad wouldnt be happy about me taking that shot". Pissed my dad off, but I dont care. Thats not what I want my boys taught. Shooting at animals is a serious thing to me. Wounding because of sloppiness is not acceptable. It seems there was a fence a few feet away and if my dad had taken time to talk him thru it, he could have walked over there and taken a rest and most likely made the shot. Or, if it was too long, dont take the shot. Hes had to pass on questionable shots before.

The bullet thing is a dead issue. You wont convince me what I have seen is wrong.....

JMHO

Andy

[fabsroman]

Yeah, instead of your son being excited that he got to shoot at a big buck, he could have been ecstatic about killing a big buck. There is a huge difference there, but I still would be tickled to death that my son was excited about hunting.

If you make hunting too rigid, kids might shy away from it later on like my brothers did. I used to be very serious about hunting. Come to think about it, I guess I still am because I got pissed at my dad yesterday for approaching a tree the wrong way on a dove ambush. I was going around one way and he was going the other way and we were supposed to close in at the same time. However, he closed in way before I did and the birds flew out where there was absolutely no pressure. Nitro wasn't happy either.

[Andy L]

I dont think thats the case here. This pic is from last Sunday. I called in some birds for him and he killed two..... Seems pretty excited about hunting to me... :)

[L. Cooper]

Andy, I have no doubt you have seen the 80 gr. bullets work. So have I.

I have seen around 25 deer killed with a .243 with one sort of bullet or another, and probably half of those were with what I would call "unsuitable bullets for deer". A group of guys I hunted with for a few years all used .243's and wouldn't listen to me either. ;) They thought velocity killed things.

I currently load for two .243 rifles for my son (although he's 32) and a friend.

Of those 25 I have seen only two cases where the .243 might have been called not enough gun. In both cases I believe the fault was not the cartridge, but the varmint style bullet that caused all the problems. I have never seen any problem whatsoever with the .243 on deer when used with heavier bullets.

So, respectfully, I always recommend 100 grain bullets in the .243 for deer. I think the lighter ones are not good deer bullets.

One not inexperienced man's opinion. I hope that's OK. No personal attacks are intended at all.

[Andy L]

Im coooo.... :)

[Andy L]

I just re read your post. Im far from inexperienced myself. I have too killed several deer with a 243. Not my favorite, but still good.

You said varmint style bullets were not effective. I agree with that. The 80gr bullets I have been using for my son are far from varmint style bullets. Not hollow points for ballistic tips. They are Remington PSP. Same construction as their 100gr bullets, just lighter. They hold together, mushroom and make two holes, same as their big brothers.

If that was your confusion, I apologize.

Otherwise we will have to continue to agree to disagree.

I actully have had worse luck with 25 cal Nosler Partitions coming apart and acting like ballistic tips than anything out of my 25-06AI. They suck.

Andy

[Lycanthrope]

Originally posted by Andy L
I actully have had worse luck with 25 cal Nosler Partitions coming apart and acting like ballistic tips than anything out of my 25-06AI. They suck.

Andy

That's beginning to be a trend. I've had 160gr Partitions grenade in 7mm while the Combined Technology 140's hold together at 200fps faster.